Revising software on Panasonic motor in ProConnect?

[Intex]

I read in another thread that FLECC had mentioned that it was possible to get better hill climbing ability, if the software was revised.
Is this possible on a Pr-Connect? I do not live in the UK, so UK laws against this would not worry me.

Here many european cars have their engine software modified to gain extra horsepower, I thought this may be possible with the ProConnect. My area has VERY steep hills!

 

[flecc]

No, it's set Intex. I was speaking of a design revision in manufacture. There should be no problem with the Pro Connect though, in it's lowest of the eight gears you should be able to tackle just about anything. Numerous old age pensioners in the UK ride the Panasonic motored bikes in some of the UK's hilliest areas like Cornwall for example, and they think nothing of tackling 20% hills with them. In most cases they have the older unit without a high power mode, so the Pro Connect with that mode will be much better.
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[Fecn]

When the warranty runs out on my Agattu in another 20 months time, I'll be very tempted to do a bit of reverse engineering and see what I can achieve from the Panasonic unit. Even if the on-board chips are not reprogrammable it'll always be possible to replace it with cheap flash-programmable micro-controller, tapping into the same signals on the circuit board. (Rather like a playstation mod-chip).

 

[flecc]

Best of luck Fecn. The circuit board is completly encapsulated in thick transparent silicon rubber and firmly stuck into the crankcase half:

 

[Vikki]

Could be a custom chip as well.

Vikki.

 

[flecc]

It is Vikki.
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[Fecn]

I am not afraid - I have tackled similar before That custom-chip is most likely just a one-time-programmable Atmel or similar with a Panasonic logo sprayed on top. If you're ordering in sufficient quantities the chip manufacturers will do that for you.

 

[flecc]

It could be Fecn. The bigger difficulty will be detaching the board from the crankcase and getting the coating off. They obviously didn't intend any service access. They do the same with their chargers.

There could be some variation on your current unit, the photo is of the previous version.
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[Intex]

FECN,
It is is silicone, there shouldn't be that much of a problem, as I have tackled removing epoxy like substances over chips nbefore.
Let me know what happens, as I am receiving my ProConnect next month.

 

[Fecn]

I was thinking about this a little more when I went to bed last night and I suspect that there won't be any need to modify the sillicon to achieve the desired result. The unit senses the speed and torque using a non-contact sensor in the crank which relies on measuring changes in magnetic flux that occur when the sensor is twisted. I reckon it shouldn't take too much trial and error to add some inductors, capacitors and resistors in-line with the sensor to modify the signal from the torque sensor. All we actually need to do is trick the pedelec unit into thinking that we're stationary at all times so the only parameter used to control motor power would be the torque. That way we'd always be at the maximum assist power level regardless of the rotational speed of the pedals.

Let me know what happens, as I am receiving my ProConnect next month.

I'm won't be touching it until the warranty runs out as I don't want to run into issues like 'We won't replace your battery because it could have been damaged by your modifications'. So.. for the next 20 months my Agattu will be running as standard (apart from the Nuvinci Hub).

 

[flecc]

Yes, that's a much simpler way of achieving the maximum power available at low cadences Fecn. More practical too, since the circuit board is impacted into a bed of silicone surrounded by raised crankcase sides so it would be very difficult to prise it out without damage.

I suspect this wasn't quite what Intex meant though, when he compared with "chipping" in cars. I think he was looking for an increase in the present maximum power.
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[Fecn]

I suspect this wasn't quite what Intex meant though, when he compared with "chipping" in cars. I think he was looking for an increase in the present maximum power.
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I thought he was after better hill climbing ability which is somewhat impaired by default as the power ramps down as your pedals speed up, which is just what you don't want when you're going hell-for-leather in the lowest gear. My interpretation was that he wanted to adjust the four-step power delivery curve in the panasonic system rather than a boost in the maximum peak watts.

 

[flecc]

I'm not sure, since he's not buying the standard unit. Though not mentioned here, he's buying the Pro Connect S high speed model and that won't have the same phase down system since it powers to around 27 mph.
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[Fecn]

Aha.. well that changes things somewhat. I would expect the S-version to already have the modified power curves, so we'd be into the realms of increasing the battery voltage and upgrading the FETs to get more power through the motor.

 

[gwing]

Electonics different on 'S' model?

Aha.. well that changes things somewhat. I would expect the S-version to already have the modified power curves, so we'd be into the realms of increasing the battery voltage and upgrading the FETs to get more power through the motor.

That is something I have wondered about. Do we believe the 'S' has modified electonics to allow more assist at higher speeds and cadence or does it simply have higher gearing and the standard controller characteristics?

 

[Fecn]

I think I read somewhere that the high speed panasonic unit has a 1.5 times assist mode whereas the max on the standard is 1.3 times, so there's definitely something different with the electronics. No idea whether they've made adjustments to the cadence/power curve too but if it was me, I would have done

 

[flecc]

I'm quite sure it's not just the gearing and assist level, taking into account the greatly increased wind resistance on a sit-up bike at well over 20 mph the assistance from an otherwise standard unit would not be very good.

Apart from anything else, those using the extreme of a 16 tooth rear sprocket on standard Pro Connects to get assistance to just over 20 mph have reported ranges as low as 18 miles, but a couple of owners of the similar S models from BikeTech have reported around 25 miles when using the 27 mph performance to the full. This seems to indicate indicate there are considerable differences.
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[Fecn]

Apart from anything else, those using the extreme of a 16 tooth rear sprocket on standard Pro Connects to get assistance to just over 20 mph have reported ranges as low as 18 miles, but a couple of owners of the similar S models from BikeTech have reported around 25 miles when using the 27 mph performance to the full. This seems to indicate indicate there are considerable differences.
.

Now that is indeed a clever trick which would seemingly defy the laws of physics. Surely you're going to burn off considerably more energy combating wind resistance than you would at a lower speed. Even if the dérailleur gears are a little bit more efficient than the hub gears I wouldn't expect quite that large a difference. I thought the wind resistance meant you needed something like eight-times as many watts to travel twice as fast.

 

[flecc]

As you say Fecn, it defies logic, but I'm reporting what others have found. There's always inaccuracies due to rider differences of course, but the poor consumption of the standard bike when geared up to the extreme with no other change seems to indicate inefficiency.

It's even more intriguing when you consider that the Bike Tech Flyer S version equivalent is heavier by around 4 kilos than the standard Pro Connect.
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[burncycle]

Really you lot.
If it aint broke, then dont try to fix it!
The pro connet has beaten any hill that I have throw at it.

If there was any tweaking to do, I would increase the power in low power setting a little and give the high setting a fraction more boost.
It would make the bike a touch more functional.
I think most people stay on the medium setting most of the time.

All this would, of course effect battery life as all tinkering does to these bikes.