Shimano Steps vs Bafang Kit

[Retyred1]

Hi Guys, Fairly new to ebikes, my only experience being riding my wife's Shimano Steps equipped bike - I absolutely love the way it performs and the riding experience, which leads to my question.

I am a keen trail rider and last year purchased a Rocky Mountain mtb, specced to my requirements. As I'm tall got the extra large frame, 29 in wheels etc. I really like the bike and reluctant to move to anything else.

As I'm getting on in years (and have a health issue) I am seriously thinking of either upgrading to a Shimano Steps equipped ebike or converting mine (keener on this option). If I fit a Bafang 250W kit (or similar) does it come anywhere near a Steps setup in the riding experience? I'm not interested in going fast, just need assistance on hills and perhaps into headwinds, which the Steps does real well.

Your thoughts and advice would be really appreciated.

 

[Trevormonty]

Bafang middrive kit will climb hills OK. The big difference is it's cadence sensing while STEPs is torque sensing. I tried both and end up buying Steps bike.

The best thing you can do is try a bike with Bafang kit added. For serious MTBing which demands instant power delivery in technical terrain, factory middrives are really only way to go.

If your MTBing is not to demanding then Merida eMTB fitted Steps E6000 drive might be right for you.

 

[Retyred1]

Bafang middrive kit will climb hills OK. The big difference is it's cadence sensing while STEPs is torque sensing. I tried both and end up buying Steps bike.

The best thing you can do is try a bike with Bafang kit added. For serious MTBing which demands instant power delivery in technical terrain, factory middrives are really only way to go.

If your MTBing is not to demanding then Merida eMTB fitted Steps E6000 drive might be right for you.

Thanks TM, I was hoping theBafang kit may have offered the 'real cycling' experience that the Steps does - a throttle or moving the pedals doesn't interest me at all, may as well buy a motorbike!
Maybe sell off the RM and look at a Merida or similar.

 

[Emo Rider]

Has anyone tried the bafang crank drive in the Freego Martins? Those are torque systems I believe.

 

[Cliff-C]

Retyred1 - I wouldn't get the wrong idea about torque vs cadence sensing. There is a lot of debate on here about which offers the best cycling experience but the cadence sensing mid drives can give you a good experience depending how you use them. I have ridden both and currently own a bike with a bafang bbs01 250w conversion.

While the bafang will give you power if you just spin the pedals without putting a lot of effort in, in practice you need to pedal firmly (i.e. normally, as with an unassisted bike) to maintain a good pace and you will peddle hard up hills. It just makes hill climbing easier. If you set the bafang to higher levels of assist you can put in less effort at the expense of battery power but at significantly reduced range.

In practice I use a low level of assist or turn the power off on the flat and increase the assist for hill climbing depending on how much of a work out I want. I don't find the riding experience much diffident to my unassisted bikes.

As for mountain biking, it would be helpful to know what kind of terrain you ride. If it is mainly off road woodland trails, the 250w bafang will be fine. If it is more serious mountain biking (jumps, drops, very steep ascents etc..), it may not have enough power and a more powerful, non-road legal, motor might be better.

Also consider that after market mid drive motors can reduce clearance height of your frame bottom bracket and this may be a consideration on rough terrain.

Hope this helps.

 

[D8ve]

I LOVE the feel of torque drive it's just like having bionic legs.
Until I can fit a decent torque drive to my bike I have been making do with a BBS01, that also helps but the power is either on or off, no graded delivery.
Good enough for a budget, great if you have issues! But not the preferred one for me.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Bafang middrive kit will climb hills OK. The big difference is it's cadence sensing while STEPs is torque sensing. I tried both and end up buying Steps bike.

The best thing you can do is try a bike with Bafang kit added. For serious MTBing which demands instant power delivery in technical terrain, factory middrives are really only way to go.

If your MTBing is not to demanding then Merida eMTB fitted Steps E6000 drive might be right for you.

Don't forget that you have a throttle with the Bafang, which gives you instant controllable power on demand.

 

[Cliff-C]

D8ve - have you seen anything (after market kit, legal, reliable CD with torque drive) that might tempt you to move away from your bbs01 kit?

Sent from my Paris using Tapatalk

 

[Trevormonty]

Don't forget that you have a throttle with the Bafang, which gives you instant controllable power on demand.

On tight trails I ride regularly, I doubt throttle would work. Had one bad experience with throttle on open gravel trail, to much power and almost lost it. On a tight trail low gearing and lower power settings are way to go.

 

[D8ve]

D8ve - have you seen anything (after market kit, legal, reliable CD with torque drive) that might tempt you to move away from your bbs01 kit?

Sent from my Paris using Tapatalk

No not yet. Tempted to get an old Panasonic CD set up and fit that to my bike, a real bodge job that would be.
Non torque there is the Gng kit cheaper than BBS and similar power.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

On tight trails I ride regularly, I doubt throttle would work. Had one bad experience with throttle on open gravel trail, to much power and almost lost it. On a tight trail low gearing and lower power settings are way to go.

What do you think trials motorcyclists have been using all these years?

Not a pedal in sight:

 

[Trevormonty]

The throttle on bike I tried was more on/off switch hence bad experience. A better variable power delivery throttle should work better.

 

[Retyred1]

Thanks Guys, really appreciate your time taken to comment. I think I'll give up on the Bafang option - I enjoy biking the trails around our area and would hate to lose that enthusiasm by not having to do the work. That bionic legs feeling you guys talk about gives me a thrill, even more so at my age!

One thing has thrown a spanner in the works though - my Wife's Avanti ebike is a Steps and while she loves the system the bike has a top bar, which she struggles with, and now decides she wants a step through. Pity the bikes too small for me. My engineering mind tells me it can't be all that difficult to remove the Steps motor and accessories and, with the help of a local engineering company, cut the frame of my Rocky Mountain mtd and adapt, strengthen and weld to fit the Steps mounting plate. I'm quite confident that I can swap over the other necessary bits without too much trouble.

My wife can buy her new Steps step through, and my bike which is practically new, will end up with the old motor from her first bike. Cost effective? not sure but I'm quessing a secondhand Steps ebike isn't worth a lot.

Possible to do? or am I missing something important.

 

[Trevormonty]

My wife has Discovery E, she finds it a comfortable ride. I ride it a bit more than I should and have come to appreciate the step through frame. Rack has been very useful when fitted with panniers (Axion Appalachian), no backpack, plus they hold helmet.

 

[D8ve]

Thanks Guys, really appreciate your time taken to comment. I think I'll give up on the Bafang option - I enjoy biking the trails around our area and would hate to lose that enthusiasm by not having to do the work. That bionic legs feeling you guys talk about gives me a thrill, even more so at my age!

One thing has thrown a spanner in the works though - my Wife's Avanti ebike is a Steps and while she loves the system the bike has a top bar, which she struggles with, and now decides she wants a step through. Pity the bikes too small for me. My engineering mind tells me it can't be all that difficult to remove the Steps motor and accessories and, with the help of a local engineering company, cut the frame of my Rocky Mountain mtd and adapt, strengthen and weld to fit the Steps mounting plate. I'm quite confident that I can swap over the other necessary bits without too much trouble.



Possible to do? or am I missing something important.

Its easy to take off, but wielding alloy is an art. Doing it on lightweight butted tubes of unknown composition. That's getting risky. Probably easier to get your own frame made.

 

[Retyred1]

Sorry to bring this thread up again but after doing over 200kms on my wife's hand me down Avanti Steps I'm loving the ebike experience, even though it's a size too small for me. My Rocky Mountain bike is languishing in the shed. I love that bike so have to do something to make it usable.

I see a Tongsheng motor kit with torque sensor available- does anyone have any knowledge of these motors? Or do I give up on the torque sensor thinking and fit a Bafang kit or even a rear hub motor - I was reading another thread that D8avh saying that that is is his preferred option although he confused me a bit on details.

My riding involves trails and light tracks - no leaping over rocks or down mountains!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

What I said is that I prefer hub-motors for general travelling, commuting and utility use because they give a slightly more user-friendly experience.

There's another caveat too. Now that batteries have shrunk, 48v is the better option. Most hub-motors run at 48v give the torque you need for hill-climbing providing you choose one with a suitable winding speed. That means a nominal 36v one with a speed of about 200 rpm or a 48v one up to about 260 rpm.

That's for a rider with a weight of 80kg to 100kg. A 36v system would be OK for somebody lighter. The same motor gives 33% more torque and power at 48v. Just about all the 36v motors I know run happily at 48v provided they are not the high-speed versions in 26" or bigger wheels.

 

[Cliff-C]

Does this help at all....

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/tongsheng-tsdz2-with-torque-sensor-equivalent-to-bosch-or-kalkhoff-impulse-evo.24391/

I did consider this unit before going for a bafang. However there were mixed reviews about durability on the endless sphere site which put me off a bit.

The bafang crank motors seem to have pretty well proven reliability if treated correctly.

Perhaps others have more recent experience.

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[Retyred1]

Thanks D8ve and cliff- I really don't know what to do, think I'll wait till after xmas and have a real good think, and Cliff - I should have done a search

 

[Andy88]

Thanks D8ve and cliff- I really don't know what to do, think I'll wait till after xmas and have a real good think, and Cliff - I should have done a search

Bafang also have a new motor the maxdrive, which I believe is closer to the Shimano experience.

BAFANG MAXDRIVE REVIEW