Should I go sensible or out right fun? BBSHD vs TSDZ2 350w

lovelock

Finding my (electric) wheels
Mar 27, 2018
17
0
28
Southampton
Hi, i've been researching for days and was pretty set on the BBSHD.

I currently have a road bike that I commute to work on and its great. Only a 3 miles / 15 minute ride.

I'm changing job in 4 weeks and the commute has gone up to 6 miles and some more hilly roads.

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The BBSHD kit is £500 and the battery from Insat / BGA Reworking is £450 for a 52v 15Ah. I would also be selling my road bike and buying a suspension hybrid bike to use.

Over the last couple of hours i've been swayed slightly towards the 350w TSDZ2 WITH A 36V Battery. The kit and battery come in just under £550 and I could use my current bike.

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The BBSHD would probably be pushing my budget slightly for something that is a new scene for me. Dropping £1000 is over half my monthly pay. I will be using the battery inside my backpack for both of the motors.

However, do you think I would be disappointed with getting the TSDZ2? As much as I wanted an easier commute where I turn up to work less sweaty... I also looked at the BBSHD as being some fun. Pushing out 30mph under throttle and perhaps having the suspension bike for the new forest etc.

Pros for the TSDZ2:

- Nearly half the price
- Cleaner installation (no brake levers etc)

Pros for BBSHD:

- Speed / Fun

Anyone able to perhaps sway me either way or give some thoughts on which option I could take? The battery is the issue really on the BBSHD, its nearly the price of the kit but advice over on Endless Sphere is that there really is no cheaper alternative to £450 or so especially not from the UK.
 

wheeliepete

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 28, 2016
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The HD is a blast, but you do need a good battery to match it's 30amp draw, so you may be better off with the TSDZ, especially if you can fit it to a bike you already own. If you get on with that you can always do a HD build in the future. 1 ebike is never enough!:D
 

whiteturbo

Pedelecer
Jul 22, 2016
134
24
71
Bristol UK
I have the 350w TSDZ2 and its more stealthy than the Bafangs which i have as well(not the BBSHD) And being an old fart i prefer the Bafangs because you dont have to push on the pedals very hard if you are feeling lazy. The TSDZ2 is more subtle and you have to push harder on the pedals to get the motor to kick in(Thats Torque for you). If i go on a 30 mile ride With the TSDZ2 i am knackered,With the Bafangs not so much.
The thought of spending £450 on a battery also makes me feel violently ill, I use RC batteries from Hobby King, 36v 16ah is just over £100(special offer) but LI-PO needs a little bit more knowledge and care and a good charger, In my case i was used to them as one of my other hobby's is model Helicopters. What i am saying is there are alternatives if you look around and are prepared to learn how to use them safely.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
I would get a hub motor for commuting. They're much more reliable and dependable. If You want speed, a Q128H or Q128C at 48v will give you all the power you need and a top speed of around 24 mph with assistance to 28 mph. That's in a 26" wheel. In a 700c, it'll be a bit faster. They give you a much better ride than any crank motor.

Everybody I know that owns a BBSxx has had a major issue with it at some point. Pedal sensor, white plastic gear and general water ingress are all common problems. Have one for fun riding, but not for commuting.
 
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lovelock

Finding my (electric) wheels
Mar 27, 2018
17
0
28
Southampton
I would get a hub motor for commuting. They're much more reliable and dependable. If You want speed, a Q128H or Q128C at 48v will give you all the power you need and a top speed of around 24 mph with assistance to 28 mph. That's in a 26" wheel. In a 700c, it'll be a bit faster. They give you a much better ride than any crank motor.

Everybody I know that owns a BBSxx has had a major issue with it at some point. Pedal sensor, white plastic gear and general water ingress are all common problems. Have one for fun riding, but not for commuting.
This is difficult, i've seen a really nice build over on ES where one of the Q hubs has been used.

But I really don't think I have the technical knowledge required for the set up. The draw for the mid drive's is they seem to be pretty much plug and play.

The Q hubs need controllers etc and it seems pretty confusing.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
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The Q hubs need controllers etc and it seems pretty confusing.
hub kits are now largely plug and play, and won't take any longer to install compared to crank drive kits.
take a look at my hub kits if you like. The 48V SWX02 kit pulls just as much as the BBS02B kit, offering much more relaxed rid while costing less.
http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?hubkits#swx02-48v-kit
 

whiteturbo

Pedelecer
Jul 22, 2016
134
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71
Bristol UK
Hub kits are great unless you live in a hilly/mountainous area where crank motors are king. I also think crank motors are kinder on your battery but others might disagree.
 

lovelock

Finding my (electric) wheels
Mar 27, 2018
17
0
28
Southampton
Hub kits are great unless you live in a hilly/mountainous area where crank motors are king. I also think crank motors are kinder on your battery but others might disagree.
I've fallen in love with the idea of using one of the Q128 hubs and learning more about controllers etc.

Currently waiting on a new thread to be approved that asks various questions on this.

Looked on Google, toughest hill for my commute is 187ft climb over 1mile which works out as 3.5% gradient. I think thats pretty low compared to some of the figures people mention on here that are 10%+
 

smifee

Pedelecer
Feb 22, 2017
52
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Chandler's Ford
Looked on Google, toughest hill for my commute is 187ft climb over 1mile which works out as 3.5% gradient. I think thats pretty low compared to some of the figures people mention on here that are 10%+[/QUOTE]

Which hill? I've ridden most in Soton on a hub motor cargo trike.
 

lovelock

Finding my (electric) wheels
Mar 27, 2018
17
0
28
Southampton
Looked on Google, toughest hill for my commute is 187ft climb over 1mile which works out as 3.5% gradient. I think thats pretty low compared to some of the figures people mention on here that are 10%+
Which hill? I've ridden most in Soton on a hub motor cargo trike.[/QUOTE]

The ride is Bitterne to Whitely via Swannick.

This is roughly the map: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/50.9086153,-1.3463362/Whiteley+Way,+Whiteley,+Fareham+PO15+7PD/@50.891614,-1.298424,13.61z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x48746efdedd279a5:0xb81a78ec6fa673e2!2m2!1d-1.2453365!2d50.8802197!3e1

And the main hill being either side of Swannick, from Bursledon to the bottom and then up again.

I don't need to sit on the throttle at 30mph all the way, happy to put some effort in... :)
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
13,771
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Southend on Sea
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the steepest gradient is the bridge across the river Hamble.
how much do you weigh if you don't mind me asking?
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
13,771
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Southend on Sea
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At a guess < 10 stone.
there is not much need for a high torque motor for a ten stoner where you are. I would recommend a lighter weight kit, the tsdz2 at 250W or my XF08CST kit would be nice to ride. For commuting, rear hub kits are a good choice. They offer a good balance with virtually no maintenance, good traction in wet weather and no need to keep to a high cadence like you would with the tsdz2.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
At 10 stone, any hub-motor kit will have enough power to get you up pretty steep hills. You only need higher more power than the regular ones if you want to go fast - say mid 20s.
 

cwah

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 3, 2011
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I would get a hub motor for commuting. They're much more reliable and dependable. If You want speed, a Q128H or Q128C at 48v will give you all the power you need and a top speed of around 24 mph with assistance to 28 mph. That's in a 26" wheel. In a 700c, it'll be a bit faster. They give you a much better ride than any crank motor.

Everybody I know that owns a BBSxx has had a major issue with it at some point. Pedal sensor, white plastic gear and general water ingress are all common problems. Have one for fun riding, but not for commuting.
I agree with d4ve that reliability and servicing is something you need to take into equation.

The ones who never had issue are the ones who don't ride much.

I'm a all weather heavy rider (700+ miles per month) and absolutely ALL my ebike parts failed at some stage.

Some fail faster (bbsxx) and some take longer (direct drive motor with hall sensor failure)

What will you do the day you need to diagnose on why you motor has failed? What will you do when your gears have worned out?

It's something you need to consider so that you are not in a whole lot of pain the day it happens!
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
Hub kits are great unless you live in a hilly/mountainous area where crank motors are king. I also think crank motors are kinder on your battery but others might disagree.
That's a bit misleading. It's true that some crank-motors are more suited to steep hills than some hub-motors. Crank motors have the advantage that they can give high torque and high speed, though not at the same time. You can climb the steepest alps with a hub-motor if you choose the right one

I can't think of any reason a crank motor would give a battery a harder time. The controller limits the current in most circumstances. A hub-motor is more likely to draw the high current at low speed and the crank motor would be more likely to draw it at high bike speed because it wouldn't have the back emf to limit it.
 

lovelock

Finding my (electric) wheels
Mar 27, 2018
17
0
28
Southampton
Thanks all! Still waiting for my new thread to be approved.

Seems like a 500w hub motor will do me fine then! Part of the reason I now wan't to go down the more DIY route is so that when something does go wrong I can be in a better position to fix & understand or replace smaller parts.

The other thread will explain my questions, but this is what I have added to my cart on BMS currently:



Im still completely new to controllers etc but love getting my head into new challenges and this is right up my street!
 

whiteturbo

Pedelecer
Jul 22, 2016
134
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71
Bristol UK
That's a bit misleading. It's true that some crank-motors are more suited to steep hills than some hub-motors. Crank motors have the advantage that they can give high torque and high speed, though not at the same time. You can climb the steepest alps with a hub-motor if you choose the right one

I can't think of any reason a crank motor would give a battery a harder time. The controller limits the current in most circumstances. A hub-motor is more likely to draw the high current at low speed and the crank motor would be more likely to draw it at high bike speed because it wouldn't have the back emf to limit it.

I still think crank for hills but i do agree with the reliability issues, but touch wood i have been lucky maybe because i have 3 bikes and i alternate them. I did say some would disagree with the battery part so no surprise there.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
13,771
11,002
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
I still think crank for hills but i do agree with the reliability issues,
the problem with crank drives is as always, they are more exposed to surface water. The hub motors are better shielded (by the wheel) in comparison. Also, the users cannot always keep up the high cadence, especially when climbing hills, inflicting unnecessary more heat production.
 

wheeliepete

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 28, 2016
1,488
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I think your choice of controller is maybe a little ambitious. Your motor will probably handle the 40 amps, but you will need an even higher spec battery than the BBSHD one to run at that power level. The power should be adjustable with the LCD, but why carry a large, heavier controller when you are only going to use maybe half it's power. The right 250/350 watt motor with a 20amp controller running at 48v will give you nearly 1000 watts of power at a reasonable cost.