Speed Pedelec successfully registered with DVLA (Riese & Muller Cruiser HS Vario)

Gavin

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 11, 2020
316
176
It wasn't always this way, back in the 1950s and before we also rode at 12 mph or less and only some kids had drop bars to emulate racers.
Interesting thoughts Flecc.

The 1950's were an interesting period in personal mobility. Bicycles doing 12mph, autocycles (BSA Winged Wheel et al) doing 20mph, smaller motorbikes doing 30-40mph and cars/ full-sized motorbikes going "full speed". Even allowing for a smaller population, that sounds like a recipe for a few crashes!
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
49,038
26,758
Interesting thoughts Flecc.

The 1950's were an interesting period in personal mobility. Bicycles doing 12mph, autocycles (BSA Winged Wheel et al) doing 20mph, smaller motorbikes doing 30-40mph and cars/ full-sized motorbikes going "full speed". Even allowing for a smaller population, that sounds like a recipe for a few crashes!
Remember though that there were hardly any cars and few motorcycles. The pre war ones had mostly been commandeered for official use during the war and never returned and new vehicles were strictly rationed.

But we still did well on accidents, road deaths averaged 6000 a year, over three times what we have now with at least ten times the number of vehicles.

What lay behind that was a curious mix. Most motor vehicles were far slower, many cars having top speeds around 60 mph or less, but combined with hopeless braking and very poor tyre adhesion. Most motorbikes not much better, a twin cylinder 250 I had from new at 16 in 1952 could just get to 60 mph on the clock downhill, but a pre war 250 BSA we had as a works bike struggled to get to 50 mph on the clock downhill, which was probably only 45 in truth.

But we did have some fast stuff that allowed us to enjoy the fact that there were no speed limits outside of built up areas, such as the Vincent Black Shadow and big engined sports cars like the Cadillac Allard J2 which could easily exceed 100 mph, still with poor brakes and tyres!
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manmikey

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jun 14, 2017
8
17
56
Norfolk
I know how you feel. That's why I renovated a 20yr old Powabyke, with a twist and go.

My "older self" bike suitability check list gets longer each decade.......

+ Electric assistance essential (Knee injury & Back injury)
+ Upright riding position (Arthritis in Shoulders & Back Injury)
+ Twist grip operated gears (Arthritis in hands)
+ Front suspension & at least seat post suspension for all of the above.

I still love the thrill of cycling and will do so as long as I am physically able, I suspect the day will come when I have to include "twist and go" on that list too, but that's okay, despite my physical limitations I cycle more than I ever have thanks to the choices available now
 

Gavin

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 11, 2020
316
176
My "older self" bike suitability check list gets longer each decade.......
Manmikey, I admire your spirit for riding on with that list of ailments. I genuinely believe that being on two wheels is good for the soul. Good on ya fella! I also admire your patience in going through the bureaucratic rigmarole of registering your bike.

I'm curious though (genuine question)- was it just a desire to be "on the right side of the law" that motivated you to register it?

Flecc, don't get me started on British bikes- I'll bore you to death! Your works BSA 250....was it a B1/ B2 by any chance? (I was brought up on tales of my Dad teaching himself to ride on a B1 round Heston aerodrome)....
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
49,038
26,758
Your works BSA 250....was it a B1/ B2 by any chance?
It was B2 spec OHV with total loss Pilgrim pump lubrication for the bottom end and grease nipples in the guides for the exposed valves.

My boss had a Matchless 1000cc V twin engined Brough Superior, a bit of a rarity since most were JAP engined.
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Gavin

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 11, 2020
316
176
Aaah, total loss oil pumps....you're not a proper biker unless you've got oily boots (and an oily back tyre, garage floor etc)!
 
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manmikey

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jun 14, 2017
8
17
56
Norfolk
I'm curious though (genuine question)- was it just a desire to be "on the right side of the law" that motivated you to register it?
Yes Gavin that is the reason, I've no wish to be that "high profile case" should I be involved in an accident of some kind (regardless of fault) and my bike is not legal as we have unfortunately seen in a few unfortunate cases recently.
 
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ubul

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 12, 2021
7
2
OK so the only question remains: How much is the fine for not doing all this nonsense. That might be cheaper. :D
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
49,038
26,758
OK so the only question remains: How much is the fine for not doing all this nonsense. That might be cheaper. :D
That depends on the mood of the police. If they decide to throw the book at you and bring all possible charges, the accumated fines could add up to something substantial.

Plus of course the points on your driving licence if you have one, or added at any time you apply for one in future.
.
 

ubul

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 12, 2021
7
2
That depends on the mood of the police. If they decide to throw the book at you and bring all possible charges, the accumated fines could add up to something substantial.

Plus of course the points on your driving licence if you have one, or added at any time you apply for one in future.
.
That was going to be my next question. Does the Police stop people with bikes that do not look like electric bikes all that much, such as the R&M Charger3(where the battery is integrated and the motor is also rather well hidden? Does the police know what to look for in general on these bikes?

Also if I limit the bike to be at normal pedelec speeds in town(which is sensible anyways) can I use the bike lane? Because if the regulation even attempts to be sensible it should allow for that...
 

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
11,611
4,774
i have had a dongle on my bike since i got it in 2014 i even went out and tried to get the police to chase me, not interested

a m8 of mine the other week crashed in to a barrier going 40mph broke it in half and was in hospital for a week with a punctured lung broken ribs ect plod took the bike but not the batt and so far no charges and he was pissed out of his head lol.

so unless you kill someone it is not a problem yet!
 
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ubul

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 12, 2021
7
2
i have had a dongle on my bike since i got it in 2014 i even went out and tried to get the police to chase me, not interested

a m8 of mine the other week crashed in to a barrier going 40mph broke it in half and was in hospital for a week with a punctured lung broken ribs ect plod took the bike but not the batt and so far no charges and he was pissed out of his head lol.

so unless you kill someone it is not a problem yet!
My main issue with this is that they in true british fashion come up with arbitrary rules without those rules making much sense at all... and that is doing the respect of the law a disservice as most people would take it as just red tape for no reason and does you a disservice because it screws you over even if you in fact did the sensible things.

My issue is not with the registration or even the insurance... my issue is the type of helmet and the cycle lane fuckery... that is what triggers me.
 

cyclebuddy

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 2, 2016
738
379
Beds & Norfolk
Does the police know what to look for in general on these bikes?
The (few) Police I know in passing know as much about e-bikes as most of us here on the forum. Two I know moderately well own and ride e-bikes in their private lives for exactly the same reasons we all do: leisure, exercise, getting to work, shopping.

My understanding is that the penalties would be the same as riding an e-scooter - £300 fine, 6 points on your driving licence, and confiscation of your bike.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
49,038
26,758
That was going to be my next question. Does the Police stop people with bikes that do not look like electric bikes all that much, such as the R&M Charger3(where the battery is integrated and the motor is also rather well hidden? Does the police know what to look for in general on these bikes?
They mostly don't bother with checking pedelecs, few officers knowing anything about them or their regulations. The exceptions are those forces who have trialled e-bikes for police patrol duties, plus traffic officers whose job it is.

Also if I limit the bike to be at normal pedelec speeds in town(which is sensible anyways) can I use the bike lane? Because if the regulation even attempts to be sensible it should allow for that...
If the rider can switch the bike into the faster mode, no, it's strictly illegal because it's a motor vehicle and no longer a bicycle. The definition that allows a pedelec to still be considered a bicycle and not a motor vehicle is not a regulation, it's an exemption from being subject to motor vehicle laws and it's very precise:

"pedal cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with
an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous
rated power of less than or equal to 250 W, where the
output of the motor is cut off when the cyclist stops
pedalling and is otherwise progressively reduced and
finally cut off before the vehicle speed reaches 25 km/h"
.
 

ubul

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 12, 2021
7
2
Thanks for all the answers. I think I get the picture now.

About my comments on the nonsensical nature of the legislation my point was that the law is focused on the people breaking it rather than the people who want to follow it. As such it is a double standard as opposed to international car-related traffic laws that try to be sensible and focus on the vast majority of people who want to follow them. Just because my BMW can drive insanely fast I am allowed to be in the 30km/h. But if my electric bike(that is one 5th the weight of a moped btw...) can do whatever final speed it is no longer allowed to use the cycle paths that it would otherwise perfectly fit weight- and form-wise even if it keeps the speed limit. I hope that clarifies where I am coming from.... the law seems to assume here that just because you can you will break it. Criminalizes you before the fact....
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
49,038
26,758
About my comments on the nonsensical nature of the legislation my point was that the law is focused on the people breaking it rather than the people who want to follow it. As such it is a double standard as opposed to international car-related traffic laws that try to be sensible and focus on the vast majority of people who want to follow them. Just because my BMW can drive insanely fast I am allowed to be in the 30km/h. But if my electric bike(that is one 5th the weight of a moped btw...) can do whatever final speed it is no longer allowed to use the cycle paths that it would otherwise perfectly fit weight- and form-wise even if it keeps the speed limit. I hope that clarifies where I am coming from....
Yes, I'd already guessed that is where you were coming from. That's why I pointed out the pedelec restricted status is an exemption from motor vehicle laws and not regulation which here is the source of the problem.

However, the restrictions are far from unique to the UK, it's actually the most common international position, shared by all EU and EEC countries, Turkey, China, Japan, Australia and almost entirely New Zealand.

And something else relevant, The Netherlands tried it your way with moped class bikes allowed on the paths and the outcome was chaotic, forcing them to introduce all sorts of restrictions.
.
 
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ubul

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 12, 2021
7
2
I did not know the Netherlands story. I wonder the level of "chaos". I will research it. Thanks. I mean this all is more a nuisance to me rather than a thing to put me off electric bikes. There is still a lot to gain from owning one even if one has to be vexed extra for their ownership....
 

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
11,611
4,774

he got ran over buy a ebike and broke his leg now he has one that can do 50mph when there limit is 20mph like here the police dont give a crap.
 

ubul

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 12, 2021
7
2

he got ran over buy a ebike and broke his leg now he has one that can do 50mph when there limit is 20mph like here the police dont give a crap.
Haha Louis... I have been following his channel forever. He made the mistake of buying crappy chinese ebike that did not come with safe battery and it caught fire one day... :D His XP is the reason I limited my e-bike acquisition to BOSCH systems only with their batteries. I do not trust random chinese firecrackers :D
 

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