Spreading rear stays for hub motor

Yak

Pedelecer
Mar 20, 2020
56
17
I fitted my Yose rear hub on my ally frame by grabbing the stays and just forcing them far enough apart to squeeze the wheel in. Whether it’s because I’d had my third Weetabix that day I don’t know, but since then, I’ve not been able to get that wheel out. I’ve got good at fixing punctures without removing the wheel, but it’s far from ideal. Is there a way of permanently sorting this to make wheel removal easier? Hell right now I’d settle for any method to get the wheel out at all.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
7,976
3,169
Basildon
It's not the frame width that's holding the wheel in. I'm going to guess that it's the wheel nut or its washer that can't pass the derailleur boss. Instead of just loosening the but, screw it right off the axle and pull the washer off too.

When everything is clear, assuming that you have the bike inverted, bash the top of the wheel sideways with the palm of your hand to remove one side of the axle from the drop-out. The rest will then come out easily.
 

PC2017

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 19, 2017
686
94
Scunthorpe
Brute force - another reason why a tiny stretch is what I would consider ok, but if you have to over stretch then its a good idea to re-asses - One more notch for a front hub IMO
 

Scorpio

Pedelecer
Apr 13, 2020
173
64
Portugal Algarve (temporary)
I'm still learning but had the same problem as you, to get the wheel out I used to hold the dropouts and put my thumb on the end of the axle - then apply pressure to spread the frame and pull the axle out on that side. repeat for the other side if needed.
Eventually I used leverage to open up the stays, so I could fit/remove the wheel a lot easier.
Expect more experienced folk along soon with other suggestions :)

Edits: beaten to it. Also try to to rotate the axle after you loosen the nuts - it can spin slightly and jam into place in the dropout. You need the flats on the axle to be perfectly in line with the dropout slot to remove the wheel.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
7,976
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Basildon
Brute force - another reason why a tiny stretch is what I would consider ok, but if you have to over stretch then its a good idea to re-asses - One more notch for a front hub IMO
Complete rubbish from someone that knows nothing about it.
 
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Yak

Pedelecer
Mar 20, 2020
56
17
It really is just the spacing of the rear stays as I took off the nuts and washers completely before remembering I didn’t have to. I was hoping there is some device/method other than the one Scorpio described, which is the one I use also, but I’ve lost some of the strength I once had. I can’t get one side out - nearly, but not quite.
 

tonyw

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jun 21, 2019
23
10
Have a read of this
 

Yak

Pedelecer
Mar 20, 2020
56
17
Ok so the axle had somehow turned, presumably with great force, within the rear dropouts as Scorpio said and had jammed in there. Took me ages to notice, but with a 10mm spanner I got the axle lined up and it was back to normal brute force and out it came with a twang. Thanks for the link Tony but mine’s an ally frame but it did confirm there’s nothing I can do to ease things.
It’s def worth repeating vfr’s point about the axle nut fouling the rear derailleur - I popped the nuts back on before refitting the wheel and they would not go past - luckily I was half expecting it (thank you) so time saved there.

What I‘m pissed off about is that modern inner tubes don’t seem to take patches, either the ‘old-fashioned’ (but infinitely superior) vulcanised/glued type or the swanky ‘glueless’ Slime Scabs/Park Tools variety that I can fix roadside without removing the wheel. Without patches, it’s wheel-off/new inner tube time and I can’t do what I just did in my garage on the roadside...thoughts, anyone? Please don’t suggest I hadn’t cleaned/roughed the tube first - 40+ years of roadside puncture repairs testify I’m ok at puncture repairs!
 

tonyw

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jun 21, 2019
23
10
You shouldn't have a problem patching a modern inner tube, can only assume there is contamination or user error. If you don't want to fix punctures, then sealant in the tubes, marathon plus tyres or similar will reduce the no. of punctures.
 

sjpt

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2018
2,191
1,688
You could try Gaadi tubes if you want to change tube without removing the wheel. (I don't know if they are any better or worse than others at accepting a patch.)

Marathon Plus tyres will reduce your punctures to almost none. My experience with tube sealant is that it doesn't help much, but guarantees a mess when you do get a puncture.
 
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vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
7,976
3,169
Basildon
What I‘m pissed off about is that modern inner tubes don’t seem to take patches, either the ‘old-fashioned’ (but infinitely superior) vulcanised/glued type or the swanky ‘glueless’ Slime Scabs/Park Tools variety that I can fix roadside without removing the wheel. Without patches, it’s wheel-off/new inner tube time and I can’t do what I just did in my garage on the roadside...thoughts, anyone? Please don’t suggest I hadn’t cleaned/roughed the tube first - 40+ years of roadside puncture repairs testify I’m ok at puncture repairs!
It's dead easy patching tubes of all sorts. Use the type with rubber solution, not the Scab type. Clean the rubber with sandpaper first, so always make sure you have some in your puncture kit, then watch some Youtube vids on how do do it properly. If yours don't work, you're doing something wrong.
 

Scorpio

Pedelecer
Apr 13, 2020
173
64
Portugal Algarve (temporary)
Thanks for the link Tony but mine’s an ally frame but it did confirm there’s nothing I can do to ease things.
In the link Sheldon Brown states alloy is not suitable for cold setting, and everything I've read from him has been correct.
Both my mtb's have alloy frames, I "sprung" one to suit the wider rear hub, the other is still standard but I will "spring" it (5mm-10mm) sometime so it matches the new wheel.

I'd suggest you read up, and be prepared for different people to give you different opinions :)
 

Yak

Pedelecer
Mar 20, 2020
56
17
I’m wondering if people have tried patching butyl inner tubes? I just read one ‘patch master’ who recommends 3 thin coats of glue to the tube and 2 to the patch, and min 30mins wait after glueing, pref overnight. Maybe they are a little different? I’ve never had problems before, other than with scabs, which work to get you home but not permanently, but maybe senility is setting in.
 

Yak

Pedelecer
Mar 20, 2020
56
17
Both my mtb's have alloy frames, I "sprung" one to suit the wider rear hub, the other is still standard but I will "spring" it (5mm-10mm) sometime so it matches the new wheel.
I tried looking up ‘how to spring an alloy frame’ on Google but got “Best Selling Prouddemon New Retro Women's Round Steampunk Sunglasses”. I’ve ordered them - now all I need are your instructions on how to use them, Scorpio !-)
 

Yak

Pedelecer
Mar 20, 2020
56
17
Sjpt - absolute genius mate! Gaadi tubes! Thank you! Never heard of them before but wow, brilliant.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
7,976
3,169
Basildon
In the link Sheldon Brown states alloy is not suitable for cold setting, and everything I've read from him has been correct.
Both my mtb's have alloy frames, I "sprung" one to suit the wider rear hub, the other is still standard but I will "spring" it (5mm-10mm) sometime so it matches the new wheel.

I'd suggest you read up, and be prepared for different people to give you different opinions :)
These guys are quoting from theory they don't understand. An aluminium bike frame is not fully work-hardened, so you can reform it. I and many others on the forum and everywhere else have been doing this for at least 10 years. Not one of us has ever broken a frame. Why do people keep spreading this myth?
 

Scorpio

Pedelecer
Apr 13, 2020
173
64
Portugal Algarve (temporary)
These guys are quoting from theory they don't understand. An aluminium bike frame is not fully work-hardened, so you can reform it. I and many others on the forum and everywhere else have been doing this for at least 10 years. Not one of us has ever broken a frame. Why do people keep spreading this myth?
Not sure if you're agreeing with me or not, my point was I respect the advice from Sheldon Brown but it contradicts my personal experience. He says only steel frames can be cold set - my experiences tells me otherwise.
Apologies if my answer was confusing, reading it back I can see how my point could have been missed.
:oops:
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
7,976
3,169
Basildon
Not sure if you're agreeing with me or not, my point was I respect the advice from Sheldon Brown but it contradicts my personal experience. He says only steel frames can be cold set - my experiences tells me otherwise.
Apologies if my answer was confusing, reading it back I can see how my point could have been missed.
:oops:
I was agreeing with you, not suggesting that you were one of the people spreading the myth. Sorry, it was a bit clumsy. I wondered after I wrote it whether you might think I was talking about you, but I gave myself the benefit of the doubt, mainly because I was in a hurry.

To be fair to Sheldon Brown's guys, they do have to cover themselves in case ham-fisted dunderheads try to jack their frames apart an extra 6 inches to fit a chopper wheel.

It's a bit like the business with the Battery University but the other way round, where they say that lithium cells last longer if you don't charge them all the way up. That's absolutely true, but can't be applied to regular ebike batteries without detailed knowledge of what you're doing and how your battery works. As long as you know, it can be done, but people take their research out of context and come on here advising people to do it without understanding the impications and the damge it can do.
 

RossG

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 12, 2019
1,620
1,640
These guys are quoting from theory they don't understand. An aluminium bike frame is not fully work-hardened, so you can reform it. I and many others on the forum and everywhere else have been doing this for at least 10 years. Not one of us has ever broken a frame. Why do people keep spreading this myth?
It keeps getting mentioned because it's not a myth vfr. As I keep trying to hammer home bending a frame isn't an issue as you're not stressing the metal it's malleable, the weld isn't and that's where a stress fracture or break could occur. The frame itself, no problem yanking that out of shape although why someone wouldn't get a wheel that fits correctly in the first place is beyond me.
The material used to weld an alloy frame is different to the aluminium that the frame is constructed from whereas with a steel frame a good weld is as strong as the frame itself.
 

Yak

Pedelecer
Mar 20, 2020
56
17
Well I fitted my wheel as it was the one that came with the kit. From this forum it seems that it is very usual to have to spread the rear stays to get rear hub conversions in. If that’s the case, I wonder why the manufacturers dont make them a little narrower?
Also, may I suggest not using a hammer when bending your frames? ;-)