Help! Swytch Kit - Big Rolling Resistance - Xiongda, AKM hub - checking/help

Carbon.

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 24, 2020
24
3
Good Day Everyone,

In this topic I would like to compare your front hub rolling resistance to verify if there is any issue in my case.
I purchased the Swytch Kit (1 st gen), before this I asked Swytch if there were any differences between 1st and 2nd generation (excluded battery), below the reply:

"The 2nd gen has no differences for the 100SX hub.
Their was a revision of the 85SX hub during the 1st gen kit."


85SX, 100SX comes from Aikema manufacturer but I received the wheel with Xiongda hub motor.
In my option its rolling resistance is too big - the wheel stops from 28km/h to 0km/h in about 5 sec.
Please look at the movie =>



How it is in your case?
What brand front hub you have?
Could you possibly do similar test?

----------------------------------------------------------------

Just to compare, please look at the other video from YT



Thank you for help.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
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The xiongda has a massive reduction ratio compared with an AKM motor. to achieve that, it has a double (split) axle arrangement. Consequently, there is a more resistance than an AKM motor, but it's not too noticeable when you ride the bike with or without power.
 

Carbon.

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 24, 2020
24
3
Dear vfr400,
Thank you for answer.
What models have you had in your bikes? What about adventsges and disadvantages in comparison to the Xiongda? Which is your favourite?

During normal operation it looks fine but I haven't had occasion to compare it to other hubs.
I'll check it as soon as I can.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
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Dear vfr400,
Thank you for answer.
What models have you had in your bikes? What about adventsges and disadvantages in comparison to the Xiongda? Which is your favourite?

During normal operation it looks fine but I haven't had occasion to compare it to other hubs.
I'll check it as soon as I can.
I've tried just about every type of motor. I can't say that I've noticed that much difference when riding apart from power and noise.

In theory, AKM should be the most free-running because the clutch disengages every part of the motor when free-wheeling, though I had a MXUS motor that would spin forever, and the Cyclamatic motor, whatever it is, also runs very freely.

What you gain from the tiny Xiongda is its light weight. Every motor has advantages and disadvantages, but I' can't think of any that I didn't like.

The special controllers for the early high speed Xiongdas had an annoying delay because they were sensorless. I think I heard that they fixed that and they're now sensored. Do you get much of a delay between when you start pedalling and when the motor kicks in? How many pins in your motor cable?
 

Torque

Pedelecer
Jan 16, 2016
25
3
63
Good Day Everyone,

In this topic I would like to compare your front hub rolling resistance to verify if there is any issue in my case.
I purchased the Swytch Kit (1 st gen), before this I asked Swytch if there were any differences between 1st and 2nd generation (excluded battery), below the reply:

"The 2nd gen has no differences for the 100SX hub.
Their was a revision of the 85SX hub during the 1st gen kit."


85SX, 100SX comes from Aikema manufacturer but I received the wheel with Xiongda hub motor.
In my option its rolling resistance is too big - the wheel stops from 28km/h to 0km/h in about 5 sec.
Please look at the movie =>



How it is in your case?
What brand front hub you have?
Could you possibly do similar test?

----------------------------------------------------------------

Just to compare, please look at the other video from YT



Thank you for help.
Ive also got the Xiondga front motor ( 2 of them actually) with the first batch kit from SWYTCH..... I’ve got exactly the same problems as you too much resistance when pedalling off power to the extent it’s off putting also means I’m loathe to run under power at a low level of assistance. I also have the AKM motor in a smaller 20 inch size ( again batch1) same battery pack the large tour size and controller, absolutely no problems with it as it runs much quieter and smoothly than the Xiondga and freewheels much better off power at least to an extent that it’s exceptable. Have you mentioned your problems to Swytch? If so what was their reply?
 

Carbon.

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 24, 2020
24
3
I've tried just about every type of motor. I can't say that I've noticed that much difference when riding apart from power and noise.

In theory, AKM should be the most free-running because the clutch disengages every part of the motor when free-wheeling, though I had a MXUS motor that would spin forever, and the Cyclamatic motor, whatever it is, also runs very freely.

What you gain from the tiny Xiongda is its light weight. Every motor has advantages and disadvantages, but I' can't think of any that I didn't like.

The special controllers for the early high speed Xiongdas had an annoying delay because they were sensorless. I think I heard that they fixed that and they're now sensored. Do you get much of a delay between when you start pedalling and when the motor kicks in? How many pins in your motor cable?
Thank for your point of view.
The delay during peddaling is relatively low.
About the number of pins, I'll check it and uptade.
Regarding the weight, Xiongda is 1,5kg but AKM 85sx also is 1,5 kg.

I am thinking of the efficiency. Now the front hub motors have max pick 80%. I also saw more detailed diagrams which manufactures shared. Maybe someone has more details which could compared them?
 

Carbon.

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 24, 2020
24
3
Ive also got the Xiondga front motor ( 2 of them actually) with the first batch kit from SWYTCH..... I’ve got exactly the same problems as you too much resistance when pedalling off power to the extent it’s off putting also means I’m loathe to run under power at a low level of assistance. I also have the AKM motor in a smaller 20 inch size ( again batch1) same battery pack the large tour size and controller, absolutely no problems with it as it runs much quieter and smoothly than the Xiondga and freewheels much better off power at least to an extent that it’s exceptable. Have you mentioned your problems to Swytch? If so what was their reply?
Yes, I described this issue to Swytch. First reply was
"Due to non-disclosure agreements with our suppliers, we are unable to reveal those exact details"
I replied that there was nothing "top secret" in my question - just to confirm if everything worked good. Now I am waiting for a clear statement.
Generally I was surprised this situation (big rolling resistance) a bit because in marketing materials was said "no friction".

BTW Have you check year of build of your set? My is probably 2019 (I'm checking it with Swytch)? It could have been some changes during this period.

Is your AKM plug fits to Xiongda motor? Just to know if it is exchangeable.

So maybe is the any Swytch member in this forum who could make the situation more clear and just to talk about it?

Best regards.
 

Torque

Pedelecer
Jan 16, 2016
25
3
63
Yes, I described this issue to Swytch. First reply was
"Due to non-disclosure agreements with our suppliers, we are unable to reveal those exact details"
I replied that there was nothing "top secret" in my question - just to confirm if everything worked good. Now I am waiting for a clear statement.
Generally I was surprised this situation (big rolling resistance) a bit because in marketing materials was said "no friction".

BTW Have you check year of build of your set? My is probably 2019 (I'm checking it with Swytch)? It could have been some changes during this period.

Is your AKM plug fits to Xiongda motor? Just to know if it is exchangeable.

So maybe is the any Swytch member in this forum who could make the situation more clear and just to talk about it?

Best regards.
Errr.... do you mean can you just plug in the 9 pin male lead that exits the new AKM Motor into the 9 pin ( female) lead that goes to the handlebar block that your battery slides onto? If so then yes it’s a straight exchange. That’s the set up on my other 20 inch wheel kit is ( same type battery pack/controller handlebar connector block and leads on it ) so just unplug Xiondga motor and plug in AKM Motor . As you say the smaller AKM is a better comparison weight wise which I like. I did buy from somewhere else the AKM 100 motor and that’s a fair bit heavier.yes they did state is was a easy freewheeling motor in their initial ad blurb .., proved not to be the case with the Xiondga early doors motor.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
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Basildon
Xiongda controllers have special software in them because of its high speed. The AKM85 would probably work with the Xiongda controller, but I wouldn't guarantee it. You can't use a Xiongda motor with a normal controller, but Swytch might have standardised their controller to work both motors.
 

Carbon.

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 24, 2020
24
3
Xiongda controllers have special software in them because of its high speed. The AKM85 would probably work with the Xiongda controller, but I wouldn't guarantee it. You can't use a Xiongda motor with a normal controller, but Swytch might have standardised their controller to work both motors.
Ok, thanks for answer.
It is good to know. I thought that only a plug/ number of pins determined if it could work good or not.

Maybe is there anyone who tried do it?
Btw I can't see available front AKM 85SX in the Internet if I would consider replacing it.

Errr.... do you mean can you just plug in the 9 pin male lead that exits the new AKM Motor into the 9 pin ( female) lead that goes to the handlebar block that your battery slides onto? If so then yes it’s a straight exchange. That’s the set up on my other 20 inch wheel kit is ( same type battery pack/controller handlebar connector block and leads on it ) so just unplug Xiondga motor and plug in AKM Motor . As you say the smaller AKM is a better comparison weight wise which I like. I did buy from somewhere else the AKM 100 motor and that’s a fair bit heavier.yes they did state is was a easy freewheeling motor in their initial ad blurb .., proved not to be the case with the Xiondga early doors motor.
How many kilometres have you done on both sets? Have you met any problem with them?
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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West Sx RH
85sx look to see if Topbikekit have them.
 

Torque

Pedelecer
Jan 16, 2016
25
3
63
Well the current Hub.. presume you mean MOTOR? FRONT drive on mine ( 27.5 inch wheel) which is the latest Swytch motor of this type ( Nov 2020 I got it) says 100SX -5XX-36H-B. Let me know if you find a link to this motor for purchase please. This motor works well with the small pro power pack from Swytch, seems to be smooth and fast no complaints. I’ve mounted mine onto a small rack just over the front wheel- adapted battery bracket to fit the rack. Just to say thanks here to VFR for taking the time to offer up his knowledge ... a great help on this forum .....as always :)
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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West Sx RH

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
19,990
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West Sx RH
Last edited:

Carbon.

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 24, 2020
24
3
85SX currently listed as sold out.
Ok, I supposed it.
Btw 85sx is much lighter than 100sx.

I wonder because Swytch now uses akm100 hub as Torque confirmed and they say it weighs 1,5 kg, but on the aikema website it's 2,0 kg.
 
Last edited:

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
19,990
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West Sx RH
100 is about 2kg, the rear one is 2.2kg.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
19,990
8,172
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West Sx RH
Yes, but 85sx weighs 1,5kg:)
We know.
85sx is for lighter riders, 100sx can take a little more power and a heavier rider.
 

Carbon.

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 24, 2020
24
3
The hub in the 1st gen Swytch is probably Xiongda YTW-06, I found its efficiency diagrams:

39969

So it looks quite good. The efficiency is on the level of 83%.

What do you think about it?

The rolling resistance without power is not included in this diagram, but It is confirmed that freewheel should be 6-9 sec.