Two friends, crossfire and 2018 crossfire.

Michael Love

Aug 26, 2018
One of my friends has the crossfuse, he says it hasn,t got the oomph of the crossfire and cannot keep up with my other friend on the crossfire.
I do not know if he means generally or going up hills.
My question is, are ALL mid drives of the same power rating and with torque sensors, are ALL of them weaker than hub motors, especially crossfire hub motors.
I ask because I ordered the Ebco MH5 from Halfords because of all the tinkering I have to do with my rat bike, but if it is weaker, I may just go for a 2019 crossfire.
Last edited:

Deleted member 25121

To be legal, the motors have to be rated at 250W or less but the regulations are very loose on how the rating is specified. Performance will also vary depending on various controller characteristics, the battery voltage and whether a PAS and/or torque sensor is used.

This is why is so important to have a test ride before buying an ebike, as it is when buying a car.
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Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
The Suntour hub motor is more pokey than the Bosch crank drives.

There are a few Bosch crank drive models, but the power variation is not great.

Most 250W crank drives from other makers will have roughly the same amount of poke, but there are some mostly after market motors rated at higher power.

One snag with the Suntour motor is it had a persistent cutting out problem which seemed hard to fix.

It may have been sorted in the latest models.
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Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 23, 2010
There is quite a significant variation in output across the Bosch range of (and other) crank drive motors. Perhaps more significantly, non-torque sensored hub motors often feel more ‘pokey’ since they are designed to reach the cut off speed as quickly as possible. Torque sensored motors basically multiply your pedal input (although some do this in very complicated ways) so the motor power delivery is determined by your power delivery. The more you push, the more power the motor delivers. If you don’t want to, or are unable to provide this input, the motor will not deliver the full power it is capable of. The hub motors mostly deliver their full power immediately whatever input you give. This makes them feel more powerful. All is fine with this until you meet a steep hill with a heavy weight that requires more power than the motor alone can provide. If you slow down, the hub motor delivers less and less power, the slower you go. The severity of this depends on the motor / controller / battery combination. In many cases (maybe all cases if you are light) this will not be a problem. By most accounts the Crossfire setup feels good but there have been many reported reliability issues. Bosch motor seems more reliable but you will need to put more effort in to release it’s full power. However, you do have access to that full power at lower speeds so no hill should be beyond you.


Apr 5, 2015
The crossfuse uses a torque sensor, similar to the Bosch systems. I took a two day trial of the crossfuse & was impressed with the natural feel & the power up my local hills. The problems of the motor cutting out put me off purchasing one, although it performed faultlessly during the 70 miles I rode it.

Deleted member 25121

The general consensus seems to be that crank drives are best for the hills and hub drives are best for the flats and typical commuting.
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