Upgrade - From Haibike Bosch CX to Cheapo BBS01

Deere John

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Apr 13, 2015
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So I have been riding a Haibike hard tail with Bosch Performance Line CX motor and 500Wh battery for almost two years now.

Not too impressed actually. Some quality issues and the spare parts are very expensive. Plus the fact that you are bound to Bosch and their stuff. I have had another bike with cheap Aliexpress front hub motor for some years and very satisfied with that so I started to think....

Time to upgrade to a DIY-MTB with Bafang BBS01 250W 36V and shark battery pack. Just that I had no bike for it.

What I really wanted was some factory made mid motor frame. Such as Bafang Max-drive or the upcoming Bafang M500 system. Seems to take long time for that new system to hit the market though and I don't like waiting so I made some research trying to find a good object.

First I found a full suspension bike with threaded bottom bracket but the shark battery pack didn't fit so good there. So then I searched for a hard tail again, plus sized tyres. Many options come across, the two best was Kona Big Honzo and Trek Roscoe. The first was a little too expensive to convert I thought and the second was very good but had some things on the down tube right where you should mount the battery. So... I then came across my local tool stop and they had a new model this year. A plus sized bike that was the perfect object. Lots of space for battery and square tubes, threaded bottom bracket, dirt cheap!

P1040936.jpg
Only matter was the rear hub. It was a freewheel 7-speed. With 148mm QR!! Very odd. So I had to change the hub to something modern to take a cassette. Bought a Hope Pro 4 Boost with QR-endcaps, 141mm. Combined with Hope fatsno QR-axles that I cut and threaded a little more to fit good. Used stock spokes but with new brass nipples.

P1050135.jpg

The rear triangle is a little wide now (7mm) but I let it be for now, just have to press together a little when assembling the wheel.

Fitted a 10-speed cassette, 11-46T. Front chainring 35T, a standard 104 BCD on a Precialps Bafang-adapter.

New brake handles and shifter. Used Bafang stock brake handles and new shifter.

Will be using stock components as long as possible, saddle, stem, steering bar, brakes.

Crank arms though was a close one. The left is like 2mm from the chain stay. Tried stock crank arm on the left side only but Bafang has them 45 degrees wrong! So stupid to change the default pattern. But well, it works, just a close one here and something to consider when buying new crank arms. I was thinking if I am to correct the width of the rear triangle I do it only on the left side :) problem solved.

Battery then. Since I ride rough terrain sometimes I want it sturdy mounted. So I drilled holes in this metal part of the holder and then drilled one hole in the frame for a nut rivet in the upper mouting hole. Then for sideway stability added triangular shaped black painted oak wood bars with adhesive mounting tape. You can also see the yellow XT60 connector for the battery mount. Used that this time for easy and safe connection.

P1050270.jpg

And the result is this then, I have, besides new crank arms also my own pedals. And mud guards added. Otherwise stock.

You can see the Bafang motor has actualy quite good angle I think, I have seen many bikes with the motor more downwards, this is more upwards, better ground clearance. But I have to add some protection plate anyway because I hit a rock on the second ride even though I was careful.

P1050335-2.jpg
Upcoming upgrade is a dropper post. And later 180mm brake discs because I need one 160mm for another bike so instead of buying a new 160mm I steal one of these and put on a new 180mm instead :) but the brakes is actually quite ok now anyway.

Fork is some cheap coil fork. It works quite good though but the rebound is terrible, it hits the bottom when fully rebound, such as a small jump. Quite anoying. I also have to adjust the preload a little more I think. On the positive side I feel that this fork should be quite troublefree if it just last long. Minimum maintenance, just ride! Until it brakes, then I can buy something flashy. And if the frame brakes I just buy a new frame of some kind and move everything to that frame.

Standard procedure with those cheap battery packs is open up and secure the build with dampers and inspect soldering. It doesn't look nice mostly. This was actually quite ok but needs some dampers to last on the trails.

P1050051.jpg


So I have been riding it this week and are very positive.

It is a very different feel from the Bosch CX. First impressions was that it is quite weak in comparison but very quite (I did grease the main cog inside there a little as many say is a good idea). But after some riding I feel the power is enough. You don't fly uphill like on the CX in turbo mode. This is more like riding the CX in trail mode. But quieter, I guess that fools you, it doesn't feel as fast when it is so silent. No torque sensing, which doesn't matter too much I feel, on this 250W model, guess it is more important on the stronger ones. This is only 60 Nm (I think?) compared to 75 Nm on the Bosch CX, and I have a feeling Bosch numbers are underrated and Bafang might be the opposite.

Only thing is that when shifting, if you let off the pedals for a second to shift, the drive continues like two seconds before cutting. So that means if you shift and let of pedals for a blink you have the drive on the shifting, but it shifts ok anyway, at least now when the drive train is new :) guess it might be another deal after a while.

But I feel this drive train will last longer than if you had Bosch CX, it eats drive trains for breakfast. If you don't ride in lower assist modes.

Other positive thing is that it is quite light, the Bosch CX is heavy piece of equipment. This whole bike is not too heavy actually, aluminium frame and all. Feels quite agile even though it is an eBike.

I am very impressed with the Bafang BBS01 drive but the thing that impressed most is the battery time. I have some cheap Hercules battery from Aliexpress, 36V 20Ah. I thought that capacity was quite overspeced perhaps but today I was riding trail and some gravel, but mostly trail. For 30.5km (19 miles). I charged the pack to 41V (like I use to do, not full 42V). And the battery meter stayed full almost to the end, only on the last km it started to flash the first bar! Ridicilously riding times I get on this bike! Can do a really long tour if I want. My other bikes would sing on the last chorus by then but this one has barely warmed up!

Well. I am very impressed! Only hope that things will last. But I guess some things will happen, but that's ok, I'm not getting the creeps for servicing a bike like this. It is just fun :)

So this was my "upgrade" to this new rat bike :) it fits me well this, look forward to further adventures. Here is some photos from todays trailing:

P6155304-Edit.jpg

P6155272-Edit.jpg
 

cyclebuddy

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 2, 2016
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What I really wanted was some factory made mid motor frame. Such as Bafang Max-drive or the upcoming Bafang M500 system. Seems to take long time for that new system to hit the market though...
I think your e-bike-build looks fantastic! I too am looking for a new/second Bafang Max-drive bike, but it seems you need to look to Eastern Europe where they've quite a few manufacturers/importers (Crussis, Leader, Devron, Apache etc) offering huge selections of e-bikes using the Bafang Max-drive (alongside the usual makers using Bosch, Yamaha, Brose, and Shimano drives).
It is a very different feel from the Bosch CX. First impressions was that it is quite weak in comparison but very quite (I did grease the main cog inside there a little as many say is a good idea). But after some riding I feel the power is enough. You don't fly uphill like on the CX in turbo mode. This is more like riding the CX in trail mode. But quieter
Have you tried reprogramming? One of the great advantages of any Bafang mid-drive is that ability to make the motor do whatever you want it to do (within the limits of the motor itself).
 

Fat Rat

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Jun 7, 2018
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I appreciate your effort and great job , but when I look at the bike a couple of things spring to mind
One which you have already mentioned is me personally knocking that motor to hell and back over rocks etc
And two with all the wiring etc it’s going to be a bugger to clean
Not knocking just observing
Still a great bike
 

Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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with all the wiring etc it’s going to be a bugger to clean
not much wiring: only the speed sensor cable is getting muddy, in this it's no worse than an average factory made bike, the excess of the battery cable and LCD cable that is normally tucked away inside the frame on a factory bike can be tucked into a little seat post box/bag.
 

Deere John

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 13, 2015
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I think your e-bike-build looks fantastic! I too am looking for a new/second Bafang Max-drive bike, but it seems you need to look to Eastern Europe where they've quite a few manufacturers/importers (Crussis, Leader, Devron, Apache etc) offering huge selections of e-bikes using the Bafang Max-drive (alongside the usual makers using Bosch, Yamaha, Brose, and Shimano drives).
Thanks for compliments! Ok, good info, hope they are coming to the west also by time :) something needs to challenge the established big systems. Some manufacturers use customized Bafang drives also, could be an option. I'm happy for now and about two years ahead :) let's see what happens then, interesting business this.

Have you tried reprogramming? One of the great advantages of any Bafang mid-drive is that ability to make the motor do whatever you want it to do (within the limits of the motor itself).
I have the cable but have not tried anything yet. Will give stock programming a chance first. But honestly, if stock programming is this eco-oriented touch with long battery times I feel that is good actually. I like biking and don't mind using my own legs a little. But live in a very hilly area so it is nice with some help uphill :) but it would be interesting to see what can be done with programming. I have read and heard a little and it seems you can really change the appearance if you like. Later when I'm bored I'll give it a shot.

not much wiring: only the speed sensor cable is getting muddy, in this it's no worse than an average factory made bike, the excess of the battery cable and LCD cable that is normally tucked away inside the frame on a factory bike can be tucked into a little seat post box/bag.
yes, this is only temporary. Later when I have fitted a dropper post and know how the end result will be I will try getting it a little nicer :) I think a small bag in the triangle would be good, under the top tube. That would hold some excess, a little frustrating though that all those connectors to display and brake handles are so short so they don't reach there, might have them further ahead maybe. Well, let's see, it can only get better :)

The trickiest part cleaning is between the drive and the frame, just between the chain ring and the rear wheel is a tight spot where you always get mud and crap. But only to wash away with some water so no big deal. But more compartments compared to a factory made mid drive of course. The positive thing with that though is that you see the mud, it is not behind some cover, it is right there for you to clean.
 

Fat Rat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 7, 2018
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not much wiring: only the speed sensor cable is getting muddy, in this it's no worse than an average factory made bike, the excess of the battery cable and LCD cable that is normally tucked away inside the frame on a factory bike can be tucked into a little seat post box/bag.
I was only going by the picture and at present there’s a mountain of wire under the top tube and down the seat tube so it’s going to be a bugger to clean if used in anger
Like I said thou I wasn’t knocking it it’s just not for me especially that motor so vulnerable looking underneath and you can’t tuck that in a bag :)
 
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peter.c

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Apr 24, 2018
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Now you have started to build the urge just to tinker/ improve /adjust just to see what happens if I just change this kicks in;) but the smile on your face is so much bigger :) just because you built it yourself
 
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Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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I was only going by the picture and at present there’s a mountain of wire under the top tube and down the seat tube so it’s going to be a bugger to clean if used in anger
Like I said thou I wasn’t knocking it it’s just not for me especially that motor so vulnerable looking underneath and you can’t tuck that in a bag :)
BBS kits are reasonably tidy, my hub kits are a little tidier still.

They'll look like this when the OP has time to tidy his wiring:



or like this:



or like this:

 
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Deere John

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Now you have started to build the urge just to tinker/ improve /adjust just to see what happens if I just change this kicks in
Today I made a test. Took my normal road-commute way to work, about 14km. I noticed quite early that this bike is slower compared to my old front-drive bike. It feels like it's cadence-sensitive in some way, if I pedal at a cadence I would normally use on an un-assisted bike, the drive don't help as much as on lower cadence. This was clearly noticed when using the throttle, suddenly it helps when pushing the throttle. That could explain my long battery life, because it doesn't help so much :)

So... that makes me wanna jump on the tinker-train. I have three assist modes now. The ideal would be to have three profiles. Like, if 1/2/3 as they are now, if 1 remains, 2 is like 3 is today, for an obviously effecient eco-mode. And 3 is a new unleashed mode where I get full assist all the time, at every cadence (but with the same Ampere pull, don't feel like changing that).

But looking at the parameters from a software I found doesn't seem to allow changing it really like that. You need to compromise, because parameters like "Keep Current" is global and affects PAS in general. Here is a document I made just dumping the stock values from that software.

/edit: removed file, very bad template
 
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peter.c

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Apr 24, 2018
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Hi
which display do you have ,try a change to 5 or 9 levels and then adjust the pas settings put it on the laptop then you can adjust the current and % for each pas level the power delivery[the profile of pas is similar to mine]
With just 3 levels is hit and miss to little or to much
The keep current between 60&75 I find is a good balance, on your profile the wheel size is set to 16 so the speed is out this needs change to your wheel size the speed limiter cuts in .:(
The battery current is to high at100 amps and cut off volts to low.
The keep current at 100% is a personal choice the higher it is the more battery used, also the pas start level set to 8 will make it a bit lively the whole laptop thing is personal preference adjust and take a test ride
hope this helps :)
 
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Deere John

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Apr 13, 2015
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Hi
which display do you have ,try a change to 5 or 9 levels and then adjust the pas settings put it on the laptop then you can adjust the current and % for each pas level the power delivery[the profile of pas is similar to mine]
With just 3 levels is hit and miss to little or to much
The keep current between 60&75 I find is a good balance, on your profile the wheel size is set to 16 so the speed is out this needs change to your wheel size the speed limiter cuts in .:(
The battery current is to high at100 amps and cut off volts to low.
The keep current at 100% is a personal choice the higher it is the more battery used, also the pas start level set to 8 will make it a bit lively the whole laptop thing is personal preference adjust and take a test ride
hope this helps :)
Hi and thanks for good answer.

First I must tell that document was not my values, just what I found as default in the program I used :) they very not a very match for the 36V/250W version.

Have now had the time to try at home for real. Got my stock values and put them in a new document. See attachment.

I noticed two things:
- Current decay was 4, set it to 6.
- Keep current is 20% and I let it be.

Tried some and it seemed to raise this limit where the motor spins out and don't help so much anymore (well, it helps 20% in this case).

But I think it is preset for the stock 48T that came with the motor. I now use a 35T and that spins out faster, naturally. So I think raising this value to something that makes this happen just above your personal normal cadence would be good.

Then to save battery it can reduce as low as 20%, I don't mind. Just as long as I can easy reach my march-speed on the flat with no head wind. That seemed hard before, not now :)

I also tuned down the throttle response a little to make it better when pushing the bike (which is where I use the throttle mostly).

Wheel size have I tried to set to something that makes the speedometer most accurate, and it was the "700C" setting. So that one is ok.

Numbers of assist levels. I actually tried with 9 on the way home today (before tinkering then!). I noticed no difference what so ever in perfomance (didn't think I should either but just had to try). But I guess it could be nice with 5 if you tune up things a little more.

Will try it like this tomorrow and see how it behaves. Have a long ride home tomorrow so it will be a good oportunity to test it out.
 

Attachments

Deere John

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Wheel size have I tried to set to something that makes the speedometer most accurate, and it was the "700C" setting. So that one is ok.
...oh yes, one thing. It is different in the programming software. There it says 26"!? Mismatch there. Or does the display overwrite the controller? (there is no option "By display's command" like those other values).
 

Deere John

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Alright! That small change in current decay made a significant improvement. Now I get more normal times on the road commute way.

It can get a little strange though when coming down a hill on a slope when there is an uphill ahead and you need to gain some speed for the uphill. It then stops assisting but I guess this is where the cadence limit breaks. Maybe I could try increasing the keep current value a little though. So it doesn't feel like hitting a wall.

what model display do you have
C961

also pas is set to current try setting to speed
I have read that current would get better feel so I changed that one. Maybe speed is better then. Don't know.
 

peter.c

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Apr 24, 2018
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I agree most adjustments are anecdotal every one has there own ideas and personal preference. Most 961 arrive set to 40kph and 26 inch this can be adjusted on the display menu a good run through vid is on the luna cycles site. Time to tinker with the settings and enjoy the test rides :)
 
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Deere John

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Your `Keep Current` is far too low at 20%, any .el file i`ve seen has it approx 60 - 80%
ok, yes I will try with some more there. Could try at 60% at first then. Hope it doesn't affect battery time too much then :)
 

KirstinS

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Apr 5, 2011
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Agree with others here , 60 to 80 is the "normal" range for keep current

You can control your battery usage better by setting a nice wide range of PAS settings. If you have a lot of flat then take the amps/torque down. See what you actually need it this makes sense

I've been surprised at how little I use the top end PAS settings on mine. And often use a top speed but low amp on my relatively flat commute



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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