Will a pedelec work for me?

bogmonster

Pedelecer
Aug 8, 2008
127
1
Hi,

First post and I know this will cover lots of ground in previous posts - I have read most of them by the way, but thought I will still ask as my particulars may be different to some of the other queries....

I plan to use the bike to commute 21 miles each way :eek:
I can recharge at work.
I live on a reasonably hilly area - the commute will be from the Mendip hills to Bath and back again. The roure will take me from almnost sea level to about 290 meters :(
I don't mind putting some effort in but I am not too fit at the moment and 21 miles is too much unassisted - especially up all the hills to contemplate on a reguar basis.
The steepest hill probably no more than a 1 in 8.

The whole 15.5 mph restriction is a bit of a pain but is what it is I guess. As for bikes, the ones I have short listed are wisper 905se, Kalkhoff Pro Connect, Ezee Torq. Have I missed any?

I like the large battery with he Wisper but spec of components apears to be lower than some of the others? As the bike will hopefully get a lot of use it needs to be reliable.
The Kalkhoff looks to be good on hills but is a lot more expensive but has better spec and should get me up the hills but has a shorter range? Also is a bit more than I wanted to spend.
The Ezee Torq - well don't know really, everybody loved the old model but not so sure about the new one.

I also like the idea of a bike I can power myself at a reasonble speed, without having to work against the motor or gears too much. I beleive the Pro Connecft scores well here, the Wisper not so well and don't really know about the Torq?

Good service is also important and I am not convinced about all the suppliers having looked at some of the posts!

I had almost decided on the Wisper but I am having second thoughts, hill climbing being the biggest issue. I had also almost decided on a Pro Connet but didn't like the cost and was worried about the distances.

All the bikes are a lot of money. I guess part of the problem is the overall viability. Public transport is a bit of a joke where I live, otherwise I would bus with a Brompton but that really isn't an option here. I think if I had upto say 12 miles each way I would just use an ordinary bike.

I know the real answer is to try them!

Thanks in advance for your help.
 

Mattyduk

Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2007
143
0
wouldn't you be better off (although not fitness wise!) with an Ego scooter ?

40 mile range and top speed of 30mph (uphill in can drop to 10mph) and 8p to charge ?

A guy at work has one and is very impressed although of course you are forced to share the same roads as cars rather than sneaking off down a cyclepath etc.
 

bogmonster

Pedelecer
Aug 8, 2008
127
1
MattyDuck,

Maybe a scooter is the way to go but resisting that at the moment. Some of the roads I comute are very fast and it is easier to keep out of the way on a bike. A faster scooter would work but then I will need to take a test and that is hastle. So, if I can get away with a bike I will.

Thanks, BogMonster.
 

JohnInStockie

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 10, 2006
1,048
1
Stockport, SK7
Hi BM and welcome to the forum.

I would also throw the Cytronex into the mix as a lot of members are getting 20 miles from that tiny fast charge battery.

From what I've read (and tried) the Wispers are very good. Fantastic range through their huge 14Ah batteries, and very comfortable. The ones Ive tried felt great. They have the added ability of the 'off-road' switch which increases speed above 15.5 mph. Of course at that speed youre range may be reduced a little (comments please Wisper owners)

The Pro Connect has a 30+ mile range on high, and 50+ miles on low, and will climb any hill you can throw at it (I do a 22 mile round trip each day without charging on high and only use 50% of the battery at the mo - I'm 40, 5'11", and 15St), and you can change the rear sprocket if you wish which pushes the assistance upto the 20mph range, but you MUST pedal too.

There is also the the Torq and Forza from Ezee which are excellent bikes.

I think you need to understand the difference between the main types, and how they can assist you and not assist you. Hub motors (Wisper, Torq, Forza) are throttle assisted, meaning that you dont have to pedal if you dont want to, or dont feel upto it), whereas the Pro-Connect and many other varieties use the Panasonic motor which only provides power as you pedal.

Its important to remember though that these are designed to be power-assisted only, so a lot depends on your level of fitness, weight, e.t.c.

I understand all of the major distributors are generally giving excellent service, but there are always some things that go wrong. Personally I have only had excellent service from the people I have dealt with.

Hope that helps a bit.

John
 
Last edited:

bogmonster

Pedelecer
Aug 8, 2008
127
1
John,

I am certainly up for some input on my part. I used t be quite fit but not any more :(

I am up for pedling all the way, I am thinking the Pro Connect geared up might be the way to go the more I consider it. I guess I am just nervous about mt fitness level. I used to run quite a fair bit and walk 40+ miles but it has been a long time.

I'm 35 and about 11 stone, 5'11" so I have no excuses really. I have never been a natural cyclist ut when I was fit used to do a 40 mile round trip into Bristol one a week but it was quite flat. The route I will have now is very lumpy.

I guess that I am happy to do 85% of the work on the level but would like a good 50% assitance up the hills :)

The way I see it is the Wisper might be OK is I can provide enough input up the hills - if not it could be a dissdaster. The Pro Connect would get the job done for sure, but probably slower.

BM
 

fishingpaul

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 24, 2007
871
86
i have the torq 2 the later model and it climbs well,however that range of 21 miles each way even with recharging at work,would be pushing most electric bikes to the limit if there are some hills thrown in, especially as the battery starts to deteriorate,i would go for a kalkhoff at least you can ride these without assistance to help extend the range, and if the extra cost puts you off, get the agattu you will probably hardly notice the difference of an extra couple of kilos,i think with the cytronex you would have to ride it on the lower speed setting,and ride above the 12.5 mph lower assistance speed some of the time to achieve over 20 miles.
 
Last edited:

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,766
30,351
It's also important to allow for the fact that batteries lose capacity and range as they age, so the Cytronex one is even more marginal and would become impossible for that trip after around 8 months months or so. There is a second battery option for it, but you have to stop to swap them over.

The Wisper 14 Ah battery would handle that range with ease, and if the hills are definitely no steeper than 1 in 8 (12%), the Wisper should have no problems with reasonable assistance from you.

The Kalkhoffs would have no problems on either count of course, but there'd be higher input from you for most of the trip, where by contrast the Wisper would carry you along effortlessly most of the time, only requiring higher effort from you on the steeper hills.
.
 

Mussels

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 17, 2008
3,207
8
Crowborough
I'm 35 and about 11 stone, 5'11" so I have no excuses really. I have never been a natural cyclist ut when I was fit used to do a 40 mile round trip into Bristol one a week but it was quite flat. The route I will have now is very lumpy.

I guess that I am happy to do 85% of the work on the level but would like a good 50% assitance up the hills :)

The way I see it is the Wisper might be OK is I can provide enough input up the hills - if not it could be a dissdaster. The Pro Connect would get the job done for sure, but probably slower.

BM
You are slightly younger, slightly taller and much lighter than me. The only PE I've done in ages is walking a few miles a day, so my experiences may help you.
I decided I wanted to chuck the train and ride 20 miles each way to work in London, it is mainly gentle slopes with a couple of 1in4 hills and over the highest peak in London (about 120 metres :eek: :D ). I wanted something that would be able of getting me to work with very little effort - for those hangover or lazy days. It also needed to be quick enough to equal public transport and have enough battery that range deterioration wasn't a problem. It also had to be fun!
I'm at work now so nee to go and do stuff, I'll finish off later.
 

bogmonster

Pedelecer
Aug 8, 2008
127
1
Flecc,

The Steepest hill is definately no more than a 1 in 8. The steepest hill around here is about 1 in 7.5 but isn't on my route. That climbs 146m in 1.1km and I have cycled up it a long time ago and it almost killed me.

In fact it is considerably steeper than anything on my route. The steepest section on my route is 10.3% or 1 in 9.7 - 300m to climk 31m.

My numbers have come from planning a route on Memory Map and then looking at the profile data. Basically this is using 1:50000 OS maps so they might level out some of the hills a tiny bit but I think the numbers are reasonably accurate.

So, the way I'm reading this is

1) The Wisper should get me up the hills with some reasonable input from me.
2) The Wisper has the biggest battery so should be able to assist more over the length of the journey.
3) Providing I can keep up the pace then the Wisper will get me up the hills quicker than the Pro Connect.

Is point number 3 true or did I just make that up:confused:

If I were to get really stuck I understand it is possible to change the rear cogs and front chainring to widen the gear range so as not to lose top end but give a bit more input at the lower end. I tend to cycle with a slow cadence anyway.

The real proof of the pudding would be to try one on my route but that is not easy, there are no dealers around here.

Thanks, BM.
 

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
6,212
2,174
68
Sevenoaks Kent
Have a test ride before you purchase.

Hi Bog Master

Where do you live?

I will give you the location of your nearest Wisper dealer. Buying an electric bike is a serious investment so I should most definitely try before you buy, most Wisper dealers have other makes in their shops so you can try more than one bike. I am confident however you'll get on well with the 905se.

Best regards David
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,766
30,351
Yes bogmonster, it is true that the Wisper will be quicker up all the hills you describe, particularly though of 1 in 12 and less, with quite moderate input from you in fact. In fact at less than 1 in 12 you won't even have to pedal. I very much like the Panasonic unit and the Kalkhoff bikes and used to own a Lafree for years, but my hub motor bikes do my normal journeys in the hilly North Downs area much quicker.

The only problem comes on the very steep stuff like 1 in 6 to 1 in 4 where the Panasonic powered bikes come into their own. Since you're not facing anything like that the hub motor bike will do the job well.

It's worth taking up David's offer to get a feel for yourself.
.
 

bogmonster

Pedelecer
Aug 8, 2008
127
1
Hi Bog Master

Where do you live?

I will give you the location of your nearest Wisper dealer. Buying an electric bike is a serious investment so I should most definitely try before you buy, most Wisper dealers have other makes in their shops so you can try more than one bike. I am confident however you'll get on well with the 905se.

Best regards David
Hi David,

I live in North Somerset - Priddy to be precise - on top the Mendip hills. Where is the closest dealer?

Also, I am confussed about the different models and specs?

What motor does the 905se city have? Is it the 200w or 250w unit?
Likewise for the 905se sport?

I ask because full muguards and a rack and necessary for me and I don't really care forsuspension forks pointing me to the city. Persumably the 250watt motor is better on the hills at the cost of distance?

By the way, a good model for trying bikes might be a rental system for say upto a week (with some form of guarantee of course) and then if the renter decides to buy a bike, some element of discounting on the rent? That kind of system would work well for people like me as I could collect the bike on a saturday, try it on my route to work and return it on the following saturday. If the potential buyer decides nope, not for me then the dealer gets the rent, if the buyer buys, the dealer gets the rent (maybe discounted a bit ;) ) and the sale of a bike. Above all the buyer knows exactly what they are in for.

Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I would like to try before I buy. Given the level of investment the bike has to work out for me! Currently I drive to work and woud still do this maybe 50% of the time. The bilke would pay for itself quite quickly providing I use it enough (partly because of the Cycle Scheme subsidising cost). The main reason for cycling is environmental and this is great if I am not out of pocket and providing it does not add too much to my journey time. It will definately take longer by bike as I can average almost 30mph in the car on the way home but that is OK upto a point.

Cheers, BM.
 

Mussels

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 17, 2008
3,207
8
Crowborough
What motor does the 905se city have? Is it the 200w or 250w unit?
Likewise for the 905se sport?

I ask because full muguards and a rack and necessary for me and I don't really care forsuspension forks pointing me to the city. Persumably the 250watt motor is better on the hills at the cost of distance?
Most bikes coming through now seem to be the City S, this is the sport with mudguards and rack. It's what I recieved and I am very happy with the setup.
By the way, a good model for trying bikes might be a rental system for say upto a week (with some form of guarantee of course) and then if the renter decides to buy a bike, some element of discounting on the rent? That kind of system would work well for people like me as I could collect the bike on a saturday, try it on my route to work and return it on the following saturday. If the potential buyer decides nope, not for me then the dealer gets the rent, if the buyer buys, the dealer gets the rent (maybe discounted a bit ;) ) and the sale of a bike. Above all the buyer knows exactly what they are in for.

Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I would like to try before I buy. Given the level of investment the bike has to work out for me! Currently I drive to work and woud still do this maybe 50% of the time. The bilke would pay for itself quite quickly providing I use it enough (partly because of the Cycle Scheme subsidising cost). The main reason for cycling is environmental and this is great if I am not out of pocket and providing it does not add too much to my journey time. It will definately take longer by bike as I can average almost 30mph in the car on the way home but that is OK upto a point.

Cheers, BM.
I found a dealer who rented overnight, this gave me the time to try out my commute for real before committing. The experience is very different to a normal bike.
1) The Wisper should get me up the hills with some reasonable input from me.
2) The Wisper has the biggest battery so should be able to assist more over the length of the journey.
3) Providing I can keep up the pace then the Wisper will get me up the hills quicker than the Pro Connect.

Is point number 3 true or did I just make that up:confused:

If I were to get really stuck I understand it is possible to change the rear cogs and front chainring to widen the gear range so as not to lose top end but give a bit more input at the lower end. I tend to cycle with a slow cadence anyway.
1 & 3) From what you say this should be easy, I can maintain a steady 15-18mph on most hills with a little effort from me. 1 in 4 is hard work but I can still maintain 10mph.
2) Yes, a big thing for me was not worrying about the battery running out before the big hill at the end of my journey.
I need to be going over 35mph on the Wisper before I can't pedal anymore so I find the range is quite adequate and works well with the hub motor.

Getting to a dealer isn't the easiest thing for me either and I have found that Wisper has very good after sales service, the almost inevitable teething troubles could be sorted out without me taking a day to lug it back to the dealer.
I've now done my 7th day on the trot and apart from Slime tyre inserts causing 3 punctures this week it has been a very enjoyable ride. The inserts are going back to Halfords tonight.
 

Jimblob

Pedelecer
Mar 4, 2007
38
0
Wisper would suit you

Hi I think the Wisper would suit you best. We stock the Ezees as well as the Wispers (best selection of these is in our Oxford shop actually). I would urge you to go along and take a nice long trial on the Wispers and Ezees. The Ezee feels solidly built but the Wisper outperforms and my feeling is that the lightweight and nimble handling of the Wisper will provide better performance, component durability, and ride quality. It's a bit of a winning formula.
The Kalkhoff, in my opinion, lacks the excitement of the other bikes and doesn't give you the twist and go throttle option (if that is an issue).
 

Mussels

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 17, 2008
3,207
8
Crowborough
Something I forgot before:
The Wisper only comes in one frame size, I have the saddle on maximum height and it still feels slightly low. Of course this is personal preference but as I am slightly shorter than you then I strongly recommend a lengthy test ride.
Other thing to consider is spares and tools, in my first week I have had to walk to shops to buy tools and parts. I also found that Halfords don't stock the rear spokes as they are unusually short. :mad: Be better prepared than me because you probably have a much bigger distance between bike shops. :eek:
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,766
30,351
Wisper can supply spokes of course, but St Johns Cycles stock a full range of excellent quality British made short spokes covering nearly all these hub motor lengths. I've used these successfully on e-bikes, both hub motor and small wheel non motor bikes. Here's the link:

SJS spokes
.
 

bogmonster

Pedelecer
Aug 8, 2008
127
1
So, one more option to consider is adding a kit to my existing bike. I have an old but still very servicable Claud Butler MTB and a Daws road bike. I'm considering the Alien 36v kit on the MTB. Looks to be the same motor as the Wisper. Not sure I like the rack arrangment but thye price is not too bad at 470 inc delivery.

Looking at the kit I think it would be easy to fit to my bike, forks have the correct spacing. The only issue I see is a slight lack of room on the handle bars as they have a tapered profile - I think the grips would need trimming down and the break levers moving out a tad.

The main issue I see is the lower capacity battery? But it would give more gears, a lighter bike and probably better equipment.

Anyway it is a tough call, the Wispa would cost me about about 700 through the CYcle Scheme but I would need some mudguards & lights on my MTB so call it 200 pounds difference.

Of course, using my existing bike is more environmentally friendly.

The reports on the Alien kits look OK, they have 645 watt peak output and a potentiometer that can be tweaked to give assistence up to 20mph. The kit does not mention pedelec sensors but looking at other people descriptions I think if comes with one - not sure if it will fit my bike?

Any thoughts on this idea? Would it fit my needs? Would it be roughly on a par with the Wisper perfromance wise? Are the batteries lasting OK for those that have the kit?

Cheers, BM.
 

ElephantsGerald

Pedelecer
Mar 17, 2008
168
0
Herefordshire, HR2
Hi bogmonster,

I have a Wisper 905SE and do a shorter commute than you (32 miles in total) on similar sounding hills, complete with panniers full of kit.

I can assure you that the 905SE is more than capable of doing your journey, and will probably be quicker than the Kalkhoff's on the gradient of hills you describe.

In my experience a 42 mile round trip (with hills) is going to be right on the limit of a single charge on the Wisper - you're a couple of stone lighter than me, so you might be ok, otherwise you'll need to charge up again at work (with all the inconvenience that entails).

Personally I've found the Wisper after-sales service to be excellent, so you should have no worries on that front.

Another forum user, Brizzleboy, lives near Bristol, and has a 905SE; he might be willing to let you try it out if you can't arrange a test ride with WEVCO themselves.

If you like the idea of the Pro-Connect but are put off by the price, why not consider the Agattu? Its quite a bit cheaper and should be easily capable of dealing with your commute (although I think the Agattu's range would also require you to re-charge @ work).

Regards,

Elephants
 
Last edited:

bogmonster

Pedelecer
Aug 8, 2008
127
1
Hi bogmonster,

Another fourm user, Brizzleboy, lives near Bristol, and has a 905SE; he might be willing to let you try it out if you can't arrange a test ride with WEVCO themselves.

If you like the idea of the Pro-Connect but are put off by the price, why not consider the Agattu? Its quite a bit cheaper and should be easily capable of dealing with your commute (although I think the Agattu's range would also require you to re-charge @ work).

Regards,

Elephants
Hi, yeah, I think I have ruled out the Pro Connect, think it will be too slow for what I need. With 21 miles I need to keep moving at a fair whack to get to work at a sensible time.

If I don't go for the Wisper I will probably get an Alien kit but would definately need to charge at work. Charging at work wont be too bad, I will just buy a spare charger to live under my desk. Even with the Wisper I think I would charge at work. I don't think I would need to much assistance on the way to work, lots of downhill and usually witht he wind. Of course, going home is a different issue.....

I have snt a PM to BrizzleBoy but it is asking quite a lot. However it would be very convenient for me as he is only 10 miles from where I work. If not I think I will take a trip to Southampton.

Cheers, BM
 

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
6,212
2,174
68
Sevenoaks Kent
Spares and tools

Something I forgot before:
The Wisper only comes in one frame size, I have the saddle on maximum height and it still feels slightly low. Of course this is personal preference but as I am slightly shorter than you then I strongly recommend a lengthy test ride.
Other thing to consider is spares and tools, in my first week I have had to walk to shops to buy tools and parts. I also found that Halfords don't stock the rear spokes as they are unusually short. :mad: Be better prepared than me because you probably have a much bigger distance between bike shops. :eek:
Hi Mussels and Elephants thanks for your help, it's one thing us saying the bikes are good, but when it comes from a customer it's carries so much more weight.

Regards the tools and spares. All bikes now come with a basic tool kit that will allow you to build the bike without hunting for the right spanner. On the November container we have a full inventory of all the spares for all our bikes and a fantastic Wisper tool kit that costs about £25 and has all the tools you would need to completely strip down a rebuild the bike if you were so inclined :eek: .

In the mean time if anyone wants spokes drop me a line and we will sort you out'

Best regards

David
 
Last edited: