Would fast charging make much difference?

danielrlee

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It's far more than that. The handshake has to agree the maximum charge rate, essential when some public chargers can deliver uk to 375 kW rate these days but most e-cars can only accept far less. 50kW in my 2018 Nissan Leaf, 22 kW in the case of earlier Renault Zoe's. And then the charge rate phases down as the battery fills, drastically dropping once at around 80% of charge.

What the public chargers will make of EAPC components I've no idea. It's maybe worked ok until now since the great majority of public chargers are very limited anyway, the largest proportion of them mainly in car parks and supermarkets being slow, operating at 3kW maximum.

And of course the question of the reaction when an e-car driver turns up to find the only charger occupied by a bicycle.
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Don't forget, the charge rate is practically limited by the current limit of your own ebike charger.

AFAIU, the value of the resistor dictates the agreed maximum charge rate of the type 2 charging point, but I'm not 100% about this. Anyone else have any input?
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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AFAIU, the value of the resistor dictates the agreed maximum charge rate of the type 2 charging point, but I'm not 100% about this. Anyone else have any input?
But how would the resistor value alone progressively phase the charge rate according to the battery content

For example on a 50kW rapid charger I monitored throughout on my Leaf:

Charge commencing with 22% already in the battery, charge rate was 46kW.

Reducing very gradually over time, the rate dropped much more rapidly once the battery content passed 75%, being then down to 22kW.

At 83% content the charge rate was down to 7kW, not rapid at all and about the same as my home charger.

And at 92% content the charge was so slow it wasn't worth continuing.
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danielrlee

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But how would the resistor value alone progressively phase the charge rate according to the battery content

For example on a 50kW rapid charger I monitored throughout on my Leaf:

Charge commencing with 22% already in the battery, charge rate was 46kW.

Reducing very gradually over time, the rate dropped much more rapidly once the battery content passed 75%, being then down to 22kW.

At 83% content the charge rate was down to 7kW, not rapid at all and about the same as my home charger.

And at 92% content the charge was so slow it wasn't worth continuing.
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It doesn't have to. It just defines the MAXIMUM charge rate of the charging point.

The reduction in charging current that you describe is a natural consequence of the CC-CV (constant current, constant voltage) charge profile used when charging lithium based battery chemistries.
 
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AntonyC

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... and the car has a charge profiler too.

I met a rider who'd been towing 4kWh around London, he used EV chargers but they bill for time as well as power, and the necessary adapter was bigger than his charger. After a year of this he was selling up. Some filling stations and supermarkets have 13A sockets.
 
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matthewslack

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I just found this adapter on Aliexpress:
AFAICT, it should let you power any device with a UK plug (BS1363) using a public Type 2 EV charger.

See 2nd product variation for UK compatible plug.

So, who's going to be the first to try it out?....
These are straightforward, and handle the handshake, but all they provide is a mains outlet, not a direct charge to the battery. You still need your charger.
 

danielrlee

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These are straightforward, and handle the handshake, but all they provide is a mains outlet, not a direct charge to the battery. You still need your charger.
That is correct; they do not provide any DC rectification or voltage/current regulation. They only convert a Type-2 charging point to a UK plug socket (BS1363).
 

guerney

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I'd guess if the car charger is charging by the KW rather than by time then it'll cost pennies too.
These are straightforward, and handle the handshake, but all they provide is a mains outlet, not a direct charge to the battery. You still need your charger.
How much does loitering for 10 hours with a 2A charger cost? Should I book as a "Koenigsegg Regera"? I doubt "generic Amazon battery attached to a Bafang on a small Dahon folding bike" will be in the dropdown menu.
 
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guerney

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The key to the icons is in the top right corner. I'm seeing full addresses, business names and charging status without being logged in, nice, although not contact details.
If contact details are not provided despite you signing in after registration, it's highly likely because they don't want you to bypass their commission by negotiating with and paying the mysterious yellow house icon owner/operators directly, like a lot of similar services selling other things via apps, such as taxi rides and takeaways.


There's more information about pan European Ebike charging in this article by Powerunity:

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Charging points are sparse on the apps mentioned. Clearly Komoot, Bikemap etc. aren't as lucrative a marketplace as outfits like Zapmap. Similar quandary for taxis and takeaways, who tend to follow the money.


Good luck with the new girlfriend ;)
It's @soundwave's girlfriend. All I know about her is that she wears a Rolex and nothing else.
 
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matthewslack

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How much does loitering for 10 hours with a 2A charger cost? Should I book as a "Koenigsegg Regera"? I doubt "generic Amazon battery attached to a Bafang on a small Dahon folding bike" will be in the dropdown menu.
One I saw today said 'maximum stay 1 hour', 'no return for 2 hours', £0.57/kWh. Chargeplace Scotland.
 

guerney

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One I saw today said 'maximum stay 1 hour', 'no return for 2 hours', £0.57/kWh. Chargeplace Scotland.
With my 2A charger, I won't get much mileage from a 1 hour charge. Do they tow your EV/microEV away after 2 hours? Then charge you a release fee plus £0.57 per kWh? They forbid use of chargepoint for more than an hour, but also forbid returning until after 2 hours? I may need a translator.

How far apart can these Chargepoints be in Scotland? 40 miles? Are we limited to 13A, if we use the plug adapter linked above? Even if I thought charging three of these cheapo 7.8Ah "LITHIUM-IRON" batteries with three 8A chargers was a sensible and safe activity to be engaged in (without an iron), I couldn't attempt to do so without using three chargepoints simultaneously for an hour, or three 1 hour chargepoint sessions at the same chargepoint:

https://chargeplacescotland.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/cps-etiquette-guide.pdf




Am I liable if one of these battery packs goes up in flames and destroys the Chargepoint? If not, I might give this ago. What puts me off is Scottish midges.


Would fast charging make much difference?
Fast charging those battery packs at 8A will make a big difference in temperature :eek:
 
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saneagle

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With my 2A charger, I won't get much mileage from a 1 hour charge. Do they tow your EV/microEV away after 2 hours? Then charge you a release fee plus £0.57 per kWh? They forbid use of chargepoint for more than an hour, but also forbid returning until after 2 hours?
Here's a solution for you. Stick one of these in your pannier. It only weighs about 10kg. It charges in 1 hr from empty, and it holds 1548wh when full, so you can do the 1hr charge, then charge your bike at a nice slow speed whenever and wherever you want.

They're also pretty good for free energy at home and give you power when there's a power cut. Don't forget to claim the £100 off, so only £559. I've got two and the extension batteries.

 

Az.

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matthewslack

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With my 2A charger, I won't get much mileage from a 1 hour charge. Do they tow your EV/microEV away after 2 hours? Then charge you a release fee plus £0.57 per kWh? They forbid use of chargepoint for more than an hour, but also forbid returning until after 2 hours? I may need a translator.

How far apart can these Chargepoints be in Scotland? 40 miles? Are we limited to 13A, if we use the plug adapter linked above? Even if I thought charging three of these cheapo 7.8Ah "LITHIUM-IRON" batteries with three 8A chargers was a sensible and safe activity to be engaged in (without an iron), I couldn't attempt to do so without using three chargepoints simultaneously for an hour, or three 1 hour chargepoint sessions at the same chargepoint:

https://chargeplacescotland.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/cps-etiquette-guide.pdf




Am I liable if one of these battery packs goes up in flames and destroys the Chargepoint? If not, I might give this ago. What puts me off is Scottish midges.




Fast charging those battery packs at 8A will make a big difference in temperature :eek:
A while since I looked in detail, but I think they will at least give 6.6kW AC output, about 30A, but remember that's at mains voltage AC, not 36V DC.
 

guerney

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A while since I looked in detail, but I think they will at least give 6.6kW AC output, about 30A, but remember that's at mains voltage AC, not 36V DC.
I just found this adapter on Aliexpress:

AFAICT, it should let you power any device with a UK plug (BS1363) using a public Type 2 EV charger.

See 2nd product variation for UK compatible plug.

So, who's going to be the first to try it out?....
That adapter is rated "16A", so my 4 X 4A charger to 4 X 5Ah fast charge battery plan could be back on. But I'll probably buy a second 19.2Ah battery.


58112
 

saneagle

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If you're going to carry adapters and chargers around with you, you might as well carry a spare battery. 400wh only weighs 2kg.
 

guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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If you're going to carry adapters and chargers around with you, you might as well carry a spare battery. 400wh only weighs 2kg.
Check out this modular battery:


If each module could be fast charged by a monster charger with separate 4A outputs, we could use the adapter @danielrlee linked to charge within an hour at car charging stations. Use each and deplete, repeat.

For my uses, a second 19.2Ah battery will suffice. Who the heck wants to ride more than 80 miles a day? Nobody normal.
 

AntonyC

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Apr 5, 2022
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Surrey
If you're going to carry adapters and chargers around with you, you might as well carry a spare battery. 400wh only weighs 2kg.
My thoughts exactly. Found this system where you don't carry a battery or a charger, just a cable that tells the (free) charging point which of 21 brands of bike you've got. The cable costs 1/8 as much as a battery would, see pages 11 and 14.

Bike-Energy.com leaflet
 

guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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My thoughts exactly. Found this system where you don't carry a battery or a charger, just a cable that tells the (free) charging point which of 21 brands of bike you've got. The cable costs 1/8 as much as a battery would, see pages 11 and 14.

Bike-Energy.com leaflet
I very much like the sound of "free". Is the cable for Bafang 2 pin, or more for the Canbus version? If two pin and 2A charging...

"Advantages for HOTELS & GASTRONOMIES
strong influx of day visitors; “guest magnet”"
(page 14)


...having to hang around charging for 10 hours, is more like guest superglue. Welcome to Hotel California.
 

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