Yet another big bloke with a grand to spend...

[PzPhil]

Hi, I’m Phil from West Cornwall looking for advice on buying my first ebike. I’ve read through a lot of this forum and I am aware that I’m asking a question similar to one which has been asked many times before, but nevertheless…

I’m 50 years old and 112kg, looking for a bike for domestic and leisure use, envisaging a maximum of 25 miles use a day. Hoping that using the ebike regularly will help as part of my exercise/weight loss regime (already 8kg lighter than last year, hoping to get down to 100kg or so). I’m 5’11” or so. Not totally unfit, I’m currently riding my Dahon Espresso folding mountain bike about 5 miles three times a week, walk about 5 miles daily. Terrain around here is mixed, some steepish hills, but nothing like Devon or the Peak District – the steep hills tend not to be very long – half a mile or so. I’d like an ebike mainly for hillclimbing assistance, I’m quite capable of moving myself on the flat.

My preference is for a crossbar bike with mudguards and rack for carrying stuff like a bit of shopping, or my binoculars and camera (my main passion is birdwatching).

West Cornwall is not well-served by ebike dealers (bear in mind it’s a 2-hour drive from here to Exeter), so I haven’t really got any option other than to buy “blind”, using the information and advice I can obtain via the electric internet.

Budget is £1000, I know that puts me at the lower end of the market, but to me that’s a significant sum. I could buy half a pair of binoculars for that money!

Obvious answer would seem to be a Woosh Big Bear (currently out of stock though). Others I’m considering include:

Tonaro Enduro (could just about get to the distributor, taking in some birding on the Exe estuary on the way, but it would be a 3-hour trip each way and £40 in fuel). Worried however that Tonaro appear to be gradually disappearing from the market, their range has shrunk to 2 models and they appear now to be working from domestic rather than business premises. Could be a problem in respect of support in the future?

Ezee Sprint Primo – but is a 3-speed hub gear enough – my cycling experience is all with conventional bikes and I wouldn’t have picked a 3-speed hub gear for serious use in 1985!

Smarta GT – slightly over budget, hugely over budget if specced to same level as the Big Bear.

Juicy Sport Click – but not sure I like that twin crossbar thing they have going – seems to make it wider for no real gain.

Freego Hawk – generic Chinese bike, again seems underspecced compared to the BB, is the base bike really worth £100 more, given that it has a smaller battery and less powerful/torquey motor?

Axcess Mustang – again looks like a generic Chinese bike with typical spec, thrown into the mix because they have a dealer (albeit as an offshoot of a car dealership) a mere 50 miles away, which may help with support.

I would appreciate the thoughts of both those with customer experience of these bikes and those in the trade. Is there any other model I should be considering?

One last thing - please try to be nice to each other. You know who I mean (I've read a LOT of threads on here in the last week).

 

[Jonah]

Have you looked at the Kudos range? We now have Kudos bikes in addition to Juicy bikes and Kalkhoffs (not in your budget) available in North Devon. Check out our website for details http://www.bikehigher.co.uk/buy-an-electric-bike

 

[D8ve]

You seam to have a reasonable idea of the market.
The only alternitive would be a second hand bike?

 

[PzPhil]

You seam to have a reasonable idea of the market.
The only alternitive would be a second hand bike?

2 Problems with used as far as I can see:

1. If the battery turns out to be duff, you don't necessarily save any money

2. Most on say, eBay are "pickup only". Time and fuel.

 

[Woodbutcher]

Could have written a lot of your post about myself Phil. Can't offer you any advice as i have just come around to the thought of obtaining an ebike and am currently reading as much info as i can on the subject.

Difference is that there are 2 or 3 dealers in my neck of the woods, so i have the option to test ride a few.

Like you i just want a bit of extra grunt on the hills and am capable of turning over the pedals on the flat and moderate inclines. Advancing years, weight and arthritis is making it more and more difficult to get up the bigger hills that were once in my range.

I like the look of the Kudos bikes and luckily there is a dealer 20 miles away, so i can give them a try.

Hope we both find what we are looking for and i shall keep an eye on this thread.

Steve.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The Kudos Tornado is a good climber for heavy people - just over £1000.

Look for a bike with the large diameter geared motor like the Tornado, Ezee and Big Bear. The smaller motors will struggle with your weight. The Tonaros too can cope with your weight.

 

[jackhandy]

Evening Phil,
If you decide on a foray into the Cornish Alps for a look see at That car dealer's offerings, you'd be welcome to a proper test ride of my bikes, up a proper Cornish Alp.
I'm a couple of miles away.

I have a typical entry-level 250w hub-drive and an Ezee kit fitted to a Trek, which has 50% more grunt, but is (just) still legal.
The difference may surprise you.

 

[RobF]

The Ezee Sprint looks closest to your preferred spec.

I wouldn't worry about the hub gear, the motor is known to climb well so first gear, you, and the motor ought to get you up anything.

Front wheel drive is good because there's less strain on the rear wheel which means less chance of broken spokes under a big rider.

The standard battery with the Sprint is 11ah which ought to do 25 miles, provided they are not too hilly and you don't use full motor assist all the way.

Most of us find we want to take on longer trips than we first thought of - because we can - so I would be inclined to go for the bigger battery.

 

[johnc461165]

My mate just bought a Woosh Sirocco cd and says it's fantastic on hills only £819, I have no connection with Woosh.

 

[CameraDealer]

I would recommend that you wait for the Woosh Big Bear, assuming of course that it's not going to be too long. I've recently bought a Big Bear for me and a Santana CD-L for my wife. The BB is brilliant on hills. I just soared up a long steep col in the French Alps but the following day the Santana struggled a bit. I must add that there are no hills like this in Cornwall though, so if you like the look of the Santana it will certainly do the job.

I don't think that you can get an ebike with a 15 amp battery from anyone else and it comes with mudguards and lights as well.

My other advice would be to consider the BB step-through. I went for this after due consideration and haven't regretted it. It's so easy to dismount without having to lift your leg over the cross bar and if you ever develop a dodgy hip for instance you'll soon be wishing that you didn't have that crossbar to heave your leg over.

Finally, it could well be that the BB step-through is available from stock.

 

[Jonah]

I

I don't think that you can get an ebike with a 15 amp battery from anyone else and it comes with mudguards and lights as well.

Juicy, Ezee, Freego and I suspect many others all have larger capacity batteries available. And of course a second hand Kalkhoff or some other Panasonic driven bikes also have larger batteries.

 

[CameraDealer]

Juicy, Ezee, Freego and I suspect many others all have larger capacity batteries available. And of course a second hand Kalkhoff or some other Panasonic driven bikes also have larger batteries.

Perhaps I should have been more clear and said: I don't think that you can get an ebike with a 15 amp battery 'within your budget of £1000' from anyone else and it comes with mudguards and lights as well.

I looked at Juicy but when you added a larger battery the price went way beyond the OP's budget.

The Juicy step-through Dutch bike, similar to the Woosh Santana CD, is £985 with a 10 amp battery. Upgrading to 14 amps is £199 and to 16 amps £299. That's a massive difference.

 

[PzPhil]

Thanks for the thoughts so far.

Had thought about the BB step through, it is available from stock, but I always worry about the strength of open frames, especially for the larger rider - perhaps I'm harking back to the old days too much?

I had noticed that I'd be paying rather more for the Juicy, Ezee or Kudos with a 15A battery. One of the things I wondered is are they so much better (i.e. the basic bike and components) that they justify the extra cost?

 

[Kudoscycles]

PzPhil....why do you need to lug the weight (and cost) of a 15Ah battery around,your original OP said that your trips would be 10 miles. I cycle my little Kudos Secret bike in mountains and get 25 miles out of an 8Ah battery,I am big guy-105 kilos.
Big batteries are about bikes with throttles,that are intended to be used with throttles,like a mini moped,they eat up Wh,because obviously you are not assisting the bike with pedalling,you get zero exercise,to some they are a necessity,fair enough.At one of the NEC cycle shows we never replaced a battery all day, but one of the moped style of bikes was constantly replacing big heavy batteries all day. I am trying (and so is KTM) to make e-bikes that are close to the riding characteristics and appearance of non assisted bikes,for that is what most customers want.
Also,all the Kudos performance series have the BPM motor with its low speed/high torque characteristics,that is,I think, the same motor as the Woosh big bear,but put where it should be,in my opinion,in the rear hub.
Be assured,these motors power up hills when you need them
The only reason I would put such a motor in the front is if I wanted to fit a Nexus or Nuvinci hub gear in the back but I cannot find anything wrong with a good quality derailleur system(Alivio or Deore) provided that you are not trying to feed a crank drive motor system through it.
All the Kudos bikes have available a lights/mudguards option that is easily fitted,at little cost.
I wonder how long it will be........in house Pedelec joke!!!!
KudosDave

 

[PzPhil]

PzPhil....why do you need to lug the weight (and cost) of a 15Ah battery around,your original OP said that your trips would be 10 miles.
KudosDave

Reasons for going for extra battery:

1. I might want to go further now & then.

2. Higher capacity when new should ensure it will still meet my needs in a couple of years' time when the battery capacity has reduced to what - maybe 75% of its nominal rating? I'm trying to ensure that I won't be spending an extra £250-£300 every 18 months on new batteries. IMHO, this appears to be a major Achilles' heel of ebikes.

 

[JohnCade]

PzPhil....why do you need to lug the weight (and cost) of a 15Ah battery around,your original OP said that your trips would be 10 miles. I cycle my little Kudos Secret bike in mountains and get 25 miles out of an 8Ah battery,I am big guy-105 kilos.
Big batteries are about bikes with throttles,that are intended to be used with throttles,like a mini moped,they eat up Wh,because obviously you are not assisting the bike with pedalling,you get zero exercise,to some they are a necessity,fair enough.At one of the NEC cycle shows we never replaced a battery all day, but one of the moped style of bikes was constantly replacing big heavy batteries all day. I am trying (and so is KTM) to make e-bikes that are close to the riding characteristics and appearance of non assisted bikes,for that is what most customers want.
Also,all the Kudos performance series have the BPM motor with its low speed/high torque characteristics,that is,I think, the same motor as the Woosh big bear,but put where it should be,in my opinion,in the rear hub.
Be assured,these motors power up hills when you need them
The only reason I would put such a motor in the front is if I wanted to fit a Nexus or Nuvinci hub gear in the back but I cannot find anything wrong with a good quality derailleur system(Alivio or Deore) provided that you are not trying to feed a crank drive motor system through it.
All the Kudos bikes have available a lights/mudguards option that is easily fitted,at little cost.
I wonder how long it will be........in house Pedelec joke!!!!
KudosDave

Kalkhoffs have big batteries on some models and they are meant to be pedaled. Big batteries allow you to go further - and you always want to go further in the end.

 

[PzPhil]

Sadly, Kalkhoffs have correspondingly big prices, which I cannot afford to pay.

 

[JohnCade]

No I wasn't suggesting you buy one. I was pointing out to KD that it isn't just bikes with throttles that have big batteries.

 

[trex]

112kg + Cornish hills for under £1000?
Woosh Big Bear. It's a very good bike. It's not enough to have a big powerful motor (B.P.M.), you need to match it with a big powerful battery.
The Bear 36V battery management system can deliver 28A continuously. Not many bikes can do this.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Reason 1 above is valid. Reason 2 doesn't sound reasonable to me. Batteries do deteriorate over time, but they should be able to do every day for three years, losing at most 20%. If you use it three times a week, that goes up to 6 years. Too many batteries expire long before that, usually after a period of inactivity.

Bigger batteries offer a lot of benefits, so get the biggest you can. The additional weight is about 1kg per 5aH, so not really significant unless you want a light-weight set-up. For most of us it would be easy to lose a kg or two from ourselves to compensate. They give more power due to higher voltage; they allow you to be lazy if you want; they allow you to get your destination when you forgot to charge your bike the night before; and you soon get bored with local rides, so want to go further afield.

i just built a 30ah LiFePO4 battery for Saneagle thanks to a generous donation from Kudos. It weighs 7kg, which is about 3kg more than your average 10aH one. We can now do the lovely but very hilly 75 mile route along the River Severn to Bewdley and back without having to go into battery conservation mode.