Bogmonster666

Ok, I have a result of sorts. I set out a bit late in the day loaded up with an enormous pannier with a boxed laptop to post. Started with a full charge. Dropped my parcels off after 4 miles and dumped the panniers after 25 miles as I looped past my house. At about 33 miles the battery was at 48v having given 255Wh. I was deliberately letting the motor do a fair amount of work and cycling slower to stay under cutoff longer as the main objective was to measure Wh. Onwards..at about 36 miles I had a fair climb and the motor was noticeably weaker - a bit of range anxiety set in and I put in a bit more human effort. Turns out I needn’t have worried. I was back home around the 40 mile mark and decided to try a few small but steep hills. Whilst slower than when fresh, got up the hills without breaking a sweat. I gave up on the experiment at ~46.5 miles as I wanted some grub. The battery at rest was 45.79v. It had given 341.4Wh. The lowest it had sagged was 44.31v. The maximum output was 582W. Total elevation was 3126 ft. I stayed on assist level 2 for the duration. The battery is supposed to notionally be 10Ah I think so at 48v that’s 480Wh. Of course you will never get that on an e-bike in practice due to sag. I achieved 341 Wh before I gave up and I was still going up some steep climbs. My guess is I would have maybe got another ~50Wh, possibly more on flatter roads. The actual distance covered is slightly irrelevant as that’s down to the bike, speed, rider, hills etc. if I’d put a bit more effort in myself 60 miles is easily achievable. 40 mile is comfortable with me being lazy. My fitness has improved since I get the kit and it’s subjective, but I don’t think the battery has degraded much at all. I was planning on killing the battery at 40 miles today but the battery beat me in the end - well it beat my tummy.

Well, I have sold the folding bike, think it is going to a good home. That was collected this morning. On the e bike, going to have a test of sorts with a power meter that I bought ages ago and never hooked up. Will be interesting to see how many Wh the battery really gives? I’ve never run the battery to LV cutoff and tbh it starts getting unpleasant to ride before that point.

It is, e.g cutoff brake levers and Bafang crank arms.

Just an update, tried to list some random e-bike components, brake levers, crank arms etc on fleebay and you are no longer allowed to do so as a private seller. I don’t necessarily think restrictions are a bad thing in general. BTW, used e-bike batteries are supposed to be totally prohibited, period. Even if I was going to sell the bike, fleebay is clearly not the place.

Being a retiree on health grounds but unable to access a pension yet, beer tokens are always useful. None of my family would be interested in a bike, and all the friends I have who cycle are very much not e-bikers. Most of them are very serious about long distance cycling or mountain biking. I may give it a punt somewhere but if it does not sell at a sensible price not a big deal. I’m sure many of you have more bikes than me but I can still only ride one at a time. I only use the Trek hybrid for everyday cycling and the MTB for fun. The folder also needs to go…

I agree about the suspicion part! I would also be suspicious if I were on the other end. Ideally it would be collection so someone could take it for a proper long test ride. I was hoping in the £400 mark for the whole bike but looking at the Woosh site it looks like prices are coming down from what I paid or maybe it’s my old man memory. It’s £470 for the kit with bag battery. So half of that plus the bike and I guess the £400 complete isn’t too far off. I think I would try it at maybe £375. To be honest though, it might just be worth selling something else out of my garage to make some more space . Having recently acquired a proper mountain bike I can’t move for bikes. Looking at other stuff, what about a coke blacksmiths forge or a 6 ton fly press (bet Evri would love that), a massive leg vice or numerous other heavy and oversized stuff. I tend to lock the bikes to the fly press, if anyone can walk away with that I’m not going to argue with them. Not been looking at new bikes, are e-bike prices coming down in general? TBH, I thought many (not Woosh) were somewhat overpriced but I know bike companies are struggling. As I understand it, shops can’t shift analogue mountain bikes at all. Everyone who want to drop 4 figures on a mtb expects a motor. Personally I’m happy with analogue on my MTB and the people I mountain bikes with are all analogue cyclists. You enjoy the downhill thrills if you have to work hard for them. I think I have come to a conclusion, and Mrs BM has convinced me, it’s probably better just to keep the Cannondale carbuncle and actually use it a bit more. Tbh, it’s more useful to me in the winter when it’s nasty weather and I want to wrap up warm and just get from A to B. It’s a very functional bike but quite a dull bike.

Photo didn’t attach 1st time… I have not put this in classifieds as at the moment I am thinking if it is worth trying to sell at all. My suspicion is that I won’t get much for the bike and may just keep as a spare / emergency bike…I guess the other option is to split the kit and sell bike and kit separately?

I’m considering selling my e-bike, not really sure of what is a sensible and fair price? It’s a Cannondale mtb conversion (ok, it’s a mtb lookalike, not a proper mountain bike but good for towpaths etc) with a Woosh 48v TSDZ2 kit with Woosh bag battery (in a waterpbox, and only then in a trunk bag). The kit is a couple of years old but still fully functional. I did have to replace the motor (with a unit Woosh supplied) as the hall switches crapped out and a bit too fiddly to replace the switches themselves. Battery is holding up very well and has been looked after. I’m simply not using the bike anymore, was using it only for shopping and pub runs in the end but I’m a lot fitter now and retired so have little bother getting up the big hill near me on my analogue bike and could do with the space. Bike has a few scuffs but functionally good including chain, cassette and chainring with little wear. The rack and unguarded have come off another bike so a bit tatty. The trunk bag has the battery box in it. The cassette is a 11 to 34t and the chainring is a Shimano 34t chainring (not the original TSDZ2 chainring). I found this gives ample top speed but better hill climbing. 650b wheels. What’s people’s thoughts on a fair price?

Just thought I would pop by and see what’s going on here. Hope everyone is well? Not been using my e-bike at all so may offload it. I do have a new to me bike It’s a Bird AM160 with a mullet conversion. Been enjoying trying to learn to mountain bike. Difficult for an old dog to learn new tricks but spent a fair amount of time in the Quantocks and South Wales scaring myself. I’ve retired on health grounds so have plenty of play time. Also using my analogue hybrid bike a fair amount, starting to get a bit fitter. I understand that non E mtbs are simply not selling in the mid to upper price bracket. Nobody wants to struggle up steep hills on a mtb these days. Personally I’m after the exercise. I may at some point get another e bike but not an e mtb. Something like a Ribble Hybrid AL e might work but as I have no income and too young to draw any pension I may have to wait. Also, I understand the battery is a bit of a weak link and expensive to replace… I may sell my current e-bike depending on what I can sell it for. I’m finding I no longer need it for shopping / pub runs as I can easily get up my hill under my own steam without feeling like I’m going to have a heart attack.

Aesthetics are not really important, quite like the low rent look. The main reason a 3 or 4 thousand pound bike would not meet all my needs is that I need to leave my bike at various places. It is regularly left at caving huts (relatively safe), outside my local, still quite safe, in town at night while I’m drinking and eating kebab - not very safe at all (although I have taken to locking it under the porch of the police station). I could justify the cost ‘maybe’ if I would still have it if 5 or 10 years. Not so much if some scroat nicks it in the first couple of months… I was probably getting closer to 7 to 8 wh per mile on the previous bike but it was an ill-fitting mountain bike with front and rear racks and other stuff. It’s also very hilly around here. I frequently have cavernous rear panniers stuffed with soaking wet clothes and welly boots and helmets and other paraphernalia to cart about. Caving kit goes on the rear rack, warm and waterproof cycling stuff goes on the front. I’m often heading home at midnight after caving (and pubbage time) and it can suddenly get very cold and wet where I live. At these times I don’t worry about getting more exercise and eking out more miles, I just want to get to bed….

Msybe my calculations are off but a 201 rpm motor in a 700c wheel gives about 16mph. Obviously you can run the motor slower but I imagine efficiency falls off rapidly. I rarely need help on say a 12% hill but start to struggle over longer hills over 15% (and I live on such a hill which is 16%+ in places). If I'm fresh I'm OK, but after 30 or 40 miles the hill is hard work coming right at the end of every ride. I don't think a small motor like the akm75 will happily haul me up a 16% hill even if I can put in modest effort. And that is the crux, when I really want help the most, I need something with adequate grunt to get the job done. I'm happy to climb slowly, but I've found few small hub motors that will be happy unless they are in clown bike wheels. A 65nm behemoth will get the job done but that's moving in the wrong direction weight wise. That's why a light mid-drive with low gearing works for me. If the gearing is low enough I can puttle up at a brisk walking pace. That's why motors like the Bosch SX are attractive. They don't have the raw muscle of their bigger brothers but not the weight either. Here is one of the many reviews: https://flowmountainbike.com/tests/bosch-sx-motor-review-e-mtb/ There are slightly lighter systems like Fazua, but the Bosch does appear a more rounded package.

Yes, I know I could put my TSDZ2 in a much lighter bike without the pointless suspension forks and silly motorbike tires but it would still be a frankenstein. The Q factor would still be terrible and the reliability questionable. I still think the TSDZ2 is the closest yet on the kit market though. Not sure I'd subject a nice carbon framed bike to the fate of a TSDZ2 carbuncle though. The Bosch SX is 2kg and the TSDZ2 is 3.6kg. There are some lighter mid-drives but not with the same umph as the Bosch. It's going to be hard to get a usable TSDZ2 bike under 15kg and I view that as the upper limit for a nice un-assisted riding experience.

I tend to see a flaming coming but here goes... I tend to use 2 bikes, an old but quite light analogue hybrid and a TSDZ2 tank like bike. Both work fine, the hybrid is nicer to ride and on gently undulating terrain is much more fun for me - and generally much faster on average than the tank as I'm usually over cutoff speed. The tank has its uses, I'm tired, have big hills, lots of cargo, little enthusiasm. But on gently undulating terrain it is a heavy tank and whilst I can peddle at 20mph it's hard work and not much fun for more than a few miles. Generally I find 15.5 mph limiting, and being law abiding that's what I stick to assisted. That's why I'm pleased to see some much more nuanced options coming out. In particular the Bosch SX powered bikes which have much lower torque than much of the competition but with suitable gearing and a fondness for high cadance look perfect for me. This month's cycling uk magazine has a review of a Cube Nuroad Hybrid that looks like one of the few ebikes I've seen that I would consider dropping serious money for. It's not super light at 14.5kg but much lighter than my tank (but still almost 5kg heavier than my hybrid bike). It's got 52t rear to 42t gearing so will get up significant hills, it has minimal drag over cutoff. It's one of the new set of bikes that actuly has a chance of combining the best qualities of my existing bikes. There are other options of course, but the lightweight hub bikes tend to bog down on the really steep hills. It's nice to see options that better cater for people who want to put effort in, like to cycle fast, but still need help on the very steep hills when the going gets harder without being unduly hamstrung when the going is easier. If less hilly there is the rather spendy Ribble Endurance line of ebikes at ~11.5 kg, but unlikely to help on really steep hills, with my fitness anyway, as I'd struggle to keep the bike goi g fast enough. I guess what I want is a bike I'd ride 85% of the time with zero assistance and enjoy, but have assistance on the very steep longer hills for 15% of the time. There are few bikes that meet these criteria.

The mk I crapcycle was definitely a bit naff looking and very beat up. It actually worked quite well but was not in the slightest bit appealing for theft. The mk II looks a bit smarter but is still a bit frankenstein. It is hardly a lightweight. The Trek is actually really nice. Not a crapcycle at all. It's super comfortable even with skiny tires, it's a pleasure to ride. It's 3x9 with a 22t granny and an 11t to 28t at the back so the gear spacing on the cassette isn't too wide but still has a nice low gear. I need to get a bit fitter but I can cycle it up my 16% hill without getting out of the saddle. And with a 46t to 11t I can get it moving quite fast...if my legs were a bit stronger...Ultimately it's good to have different bikes for different outings! In general, keen to cycle analogue a bit more often - but only on a nice light bike. Cycling the Cannondale before I put a motor on it was a misery, just felt like unnecessarily hard graft. I know 3x is old skool but for a hilly area it works well and using cheap consumables.

I've disassembled my faithful crapcycle and stolen parts for crapcycle mk II. I was going to do a rear hub conversion but would need a hefty, high torque motor and decided to just use my existing tsdz2 mid-drive to save some pennies. Still needs a bit of work but went for a test cycle. Currently fitted with 34t and 42t dual chainrings but have not sorted out front derailleur. I think I can easily get this to work with a cheapo Tourney front derailleur and eccentric collar from the crapcycle mk I along with a clamp on cable stop so can work top pull. However, I don't think it is necessary, will stick with single 34t. The 34t front and 11t to 34t cassette easily get me up my killer hill and I can peddle at a leisurely 60 rpm and reach the motor cut-off speed. The bike is too heavy and obese to cycle over 20mph which I can achieve at 80rpm which is a more natural cadence for me anyway. Anti-rotation bracket did not fit but have a plan with a stainless jubilee clip and 3d printed spacer. Cable guide removed and a short piece of cable outer between the BB shell and motor works perfectly. One of my complaints about stock firmware was rapid fade of assist over 75 rpm but notice it less on this lumbering bike. Motor appears quieter, or the tire noise is much louder... Overall, it's fine to ride but feels slow. The tires are overkill and the suspension forks are little more than dead weight. Q factor is obviously as horrific as ever of course. The crapcycle mk I had been reserected, it now has a regular BB and crankset and stupidly low gearing given it's 26" wheels and skinny tires. I can cycle that up my killer hill easily and it's a good pub bike I'm happy to leave locked up at night in town. Despite being old, it is quite a light bike. My main transport now though is this: At 10kg it's fast and a pleasure to ride. It's hard work up my hill but I'm enjoying the challenge and averaged out it is faster than the electric bike. The rim brakes are more than sufficient on this bike and I'd never consider converting it to electric. I think the electric bike will be used less, when the weather is poor and when I have more stuff to lug about (like my trailer full of caving kit).