Hi,

 

Currently looking at a Cube Touring Hybrid One 400 2019 for my wife - https://bit.ly/2r4dKOp - for £1439

 

I have also been offered a Kahlkoff Endeavour Move B.1 - https://bit.ly/2TrjuhQ - (Trapez model - with the lower top tube) for £1615.

 

The Kahlkoff can be bough via a local dealer, so support would be better if there are any issues, whereas I would have to buy the Cube mail order.

 

Both have the 400wh Bosch battery. The Cube has the Bosch Active Line Plus and the Kahlkoff the Bosch Performance motor (not the CX version).

 

She will be coming out with me (I ride a normal non e-bike) for occasional rides of up to 30/40 miles and using it to go to work in the Summer (about 11 miles each way, nothing to steep about 8% max for a mile each way and she can charge it at work if she needs to).

 

Which do you think would be best for her?

 

Many Thanks.

A couple of neighbours just bought the (discounted) 2018 Cube Touring (400) and they have been very pleased. They have gone for the step-through (both over 80). The son of one of them put them together from a mail order build, not trivial but not difficult either.

 

The 400 battery should do the commute and the 30 mile ride fine. 40 would be OK on eco mode, and maybe just in tour mode, but to be honest you don't get that much boost from eco. Obviously depends on terrain, usage, weight, etc. The Bosch predictor gives a pretty good idea.

https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/service/range-assistant/

Edited November 20, 20187 yr by sjpt

For warranty issues and software upgrades local has to be better then faffing with re-boxing/mail order, though local may maintain the bike but for a fee.

The extra £180 for the Kalkhoff will be worth it in the long run.

Both bikes are good branded ones and nothing wrong with the Kalkhoff, my brother has a 5 year old Endeavour BS10 with over 16k miles on it and it still looks in good nick.

Thanks, I'm going to get her the Kahlkoff.

 

Last question, do you think a 500wh battery is worth it over a 400wh, there is quite a difference in price.

500wh for the extra range and safety net if planning on 40 mile rides.

Not much fun riding unassisted.

Thanks, I'm going to get her the Kahlkoff.

 

Last question, do you think a 500wh battery is worth it over a 400wh, there is quite a difference in price.

Make sure she does long test ride first, as with any bike frame fit most thing.

Consider 26" wheel bike if she is short.

my wife has a KTM Macina Tour 10 Plus - Bosch Performance Line motor with 400w battery...We have ridden over 50miles on a day out and have never run out of battery ..She uses mostly Eco and Tour with the last few miles on the way home on Turbo...

How does she find the Performance motor. This is the same motor on the Kahlkoff.

 

Was just wondering if the Active Plus motor was a bit more efficient being non geared 1:1 ratio.

The Bosch predictor gives a pretty good idea of efficiency (or at least range) for the different motors.

https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/service/range-assistant/

The Bosch predictor gives a pretty good idea of efficiency (or at least range) for the different motors.

https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/service/range-assistant/

 

It’s miles out for me

I just had a go and it was not remotely close

I think the average speed thing is too low as well

Are you setting everything correctly on all tabs of the predictor (rider, eBike, environment)? For me with 400 battery on Active Line, it drops from 53 miles with default settings to just over 30 miles with my settings; which is pretty close to what I am getting.

 

Even if you don't match the predictor for some reason, you should still get a good idea of the differences between motor types.

 

I guess the speed slider maxes out at 16mph because if you are going faster than that the motor is not being used at all (at least, it shouldn't be).

How does she find the Performance motor. This is the same motor on the Kahlkoff.

 

Was just wondering if the Active Plus motor was a bit more efficient being non geared 1:1 ratio.

we cycled from Belford to Berwick and back on the coast cycle path and she still had plenty of charge left ....She weighs about 9 stone and is not a super fit cyclist..

 

( dont tell her I said that !! )

Are you setting everything correctly on all tabs of the predictor (rider, eBike, environment)?

 

 

 

I guess the speed slider maxes out at 16mph because if you are going faster than that the motor is not being used at all (at least, it shouldn't be).

Agree

But as a calculator the slide is for average speed and as my average is generally 16-17mph it should go higher as it still should work out the battery use

The problem with it as I see is there asking cadence but there’s no slide for human watts so it can only calculate full motor effort at what power mode you pick

It may give you an idea between motors but it’s still a guess at best

Disappointing really

I weigh the best part of 20 stone. My Raleigh Motus is fitted with the 300watt base battery and it predicts 90 miles for me. The most I have done is 15 miles and the battery dropped ONE, yes one of the five bars on the indicator. Given that it has progressed into the second bar that would sort of prove the projected mileage is about right. I ride a mix of OFF (simply because you don't need the motor in ideal conditions), ECO and rarely, TOUR. I just haven't come across the need for SPORT or TURBO. However if you are going to ride with the motor assisting you at one of the higher levels (unlikely as you'll realise when you ride one) then range will obviously reduce. The point is though, you just do not need full motor assistance all the time. I'm 70 year s of age with severe spinal disabilities and suffering heart failure and even I'm happy with ECO mode or even OFF as it's rolling resistance is very low. I've only had mine about six weeks but I am amazed just how efficient this motor drive is. Far better than my expectations and, it is priced at an amazing £1650 which, for a branded bike and possibly the best drive system on the market is brilliant.

I ride a mix of OFF (simply because you don't need the motor in ideal conditions), ECO and rarely, TOUR.

 

If that were me I'd get far more enjoyment and speed out of a much lighter ordinary bike.

You might think again if you had my heart and spinal problems. I do have a mountain bike with road tyres but it was restricting just how far I could safely travel away from home as I was having difficulty getting back. I was going to call it a day but my doc suggested an ebike and how right he was. The fact that I rarely use more than ECO is more a testament to the quality and performance of the Bosch Active Line motor than my strength and fitness. As opposed to giving cycling up I'll take the ebike every time. It gives me the confidence to go for it as I can ALWAYS get back by using Turbo and just gentle cadence if the situation demanded.

It’s miles out for me

I just had a go and it was not remotely close

I think the average speed thing is too low as well

 

It was out by about 38 miles for me. I'd love to be getting the quoted range of 66 miles.

I just don't understand this at all. Have I got the superstar 300watt battery of all batteries or have you guys got faulty ones? Even at my weight it quotes 90+ miles and of the trips I have done so far the battery has performed to full expectation. Perhaps if you explained what terrain and power level you are using and over what period then we would have a greater understanding as to why you are only getting such low mileage.

Depends so much on details. With my bike/weight and a 400 battery the predictor gives 86 miles on eco/flat. Change that to tour/hilly (more realistic) it drops to 38. Up the speed from 12 to 15mph and a further drop to 32; and windy drops to 29. I tend to use Eco most of the time and Sport on the hills. Just over 30 is probably close to what I am getting (I try not to let it get right down).

 

I don't think the battery bars are linear so Steve's 90 miles on a 300 battery might be optimistic, but if it is flat where he is and with lots of riding with motor off seems possible. Has Eddie put in all the settings to get his quoted 66 miles? There are just so many variables that nothing will be able to predict really accurately, but I still think it does a pretty good job for me.

Edited December 14, 20187 yr by sjpt

I just don't understand this at all. Have I got the superstar 300watt battery of all batteries or have you guys got faulty ones? Even at my weight it quotes 90+ miles and of the trips I have done so far the battery has performed to full expectation. Perhaps if you explained what terrain and power level you are using and over what period then we would have a greater understanding as to why you are only getting such low mileage.

 

I get about 15 to 20 miles from my 300 wh battery, lots of hills.

 

It appears you have a magic e-bike, or your average speed is around 10 mph and it is pan flat where you live?

although the display indicates 90 miles this will be dependent on enviroment ;-

 

How much you use the assist , what level you use, the terrain ( Hills etc ) , weather ( is it windy - a headwind etc ) , the temperature ( cold eats batteries ) So even if the display shows 90miles on a full charge I would doubt you would achieve such a figure from the information you have supplied already .

I did 15 miles today flat (I live in a mossland farming area East of Warrington where the only real hills are man made) with some undulating and muddy off road and again, on the tarmac, the motor was off and I maintained a gentle 13/14mph. I used ECO off road most of the time and even a short burst of TURBO in the muddy sections. What I did notice on my display is it quoted a range of 38 miles (I have never had an indicated 90 miles range on the display. That is what the online calculator predicted on my type of usage and weight) and that never wavered from start to finish despite it being based on the last mile of usage!! I got home with five bars still showing on the battery, put it on charge and it was fully charged in 23 minutes! The range was still quoted as 38 miles which is laughable considering I has just done over a third of that and the battery was still virtually fully charged (go figure). Of course if I went the full distance in one of the more power demanding modes then I would hope it would drop but I was told when I bought the bike not to give the range readout too much credence, either way, and that would certainly appear to be the case. So far my battery has never given me any reason to think that the quoted 90 miles isn't feasable, given my type of usage, but I would be happy with half that. What I will do next time I go out is do the whole distance in SPORT and TURBO modes. It's not necessary and goes against the grain but it will be interesting to see just how much it takes out of the battery and I'll keep you updated. You have to bear in mind that I ride for pleasure and speed is not on my agenda. As I stated above, 13/14 mph motor OFF and on ECO mode perhaps 17/18mph. Anything above that is either downhill, motor OFF, or simply just to see what the bike was capable of. I use it for pleasure/exercise so riding around on SPORT/TURBO mode is pointless. I only bought an ebike for confidence, given my medical situation.

Edited December 14, 20187 yr by SteveB1262

I maintained a gentle 13/14mph.

 

Same pace as me then. https://www.strava.com/activities/541122775

 

ETA. Forgot to say done in tour with around 700 w/h

Edited December 14, 20187 yr by Artstu

Then I am confused as mine is with the motor off which would indicate the motor isn't doing much even in ECO mode so the battery isn't really being asked much of it? It would seem we just have two different styles of riding with me not really using the motor unless my body demands it. That's just personal preference.

Then I am confused as mine is with the motor off which would indicate the motor isn't doing much even in ECO mode so the battery isn't really being asked much of it? It would seem we just have two different styles of riding with me not really using the motor unless my body demands it. That's just personal preference.

 

All is revealed in the Strava link.