May 25, 2025May 25 Hello again. I suppose when the motor starts to behave in a juddery fashion, then smoke comes out of it and then it stops working, but tries to, that means it's done for?
May 25, 2025May 25 It could be a bad contact on one if the phase wires, the thick green, yellow ond blue wires. Check first that the motor cable is pushed in all the way up to where the lip of the female connection on the motor side comes up to the circle on the controller side.
May 25, 2025May 25 Author It could be a bad contact on one if the phase wires, the thick green, yellow ond blue wires. Check first that the motor cable is pushed in all the way up to where the lip of the female connection on the motor side comes up to the circle on the controller side. Thanks for that. I'll go and check that in the next half hour.
May 25, 2025May 25 Author Okay. The smoke wasn't coming from the motor, it seems. The connector from the controller side is melted, with a pin from one connector now stuck in the hole of the other.
May 25, 2025May 25 Cut the connectors off and solder the opposing wire directly together , not forgetting to slide a bit of heat shrink along the wire first to insulate the join. Bullet connectors are known for fusing togehter with phase wires.
May 25, 2025May 25 Author Cut the connectors off and solder the opposing wire directly together , not forgetting to slide a bit of heat shrink along the wire first to insulate the join. Bullet connectors are known for fusing togehter with phase wires. There is a delicious logic to your solution which, I fear, I might not have arrived at before I became mummified. I've cut off the connectors, stripped the wires and will get some heat-shrink before continuing. The wires are: red, blue, green, black, white and yellow. I imagine they must all be connected?
May 25, 2025May 25 Author Well, I connected all of the wires temporarily, by just twisting them together. The motor is fine and I rode the bike around the block. I just need to find a way of connecting all of these wires permanently, but so that they can be disconnected if required. Edited May 25, 2025May 25 by stever1957
May 25, 2025May 25 Andy is on holiday until the end of the week. You could use WAGO blocks as a temporary solution. When he gets back, I will ask him to get in touch with you to sort our replacement connectors.
May 25, 2025May 25 Author Andy is on holiday until the end of the week. You could use WAGO blocks as a temporary solution. When he gets back, I will ask him to get in touch with you to sort our replacement connectors. Oh, many thanks.
May 25, 2025May 25 Only the three thicker Phase wires Green , Blue & Yellow are the ones that carry the higher current. The other three are Hall wires which can be left as they are..
May 25, 2025May 25 Author Only the three thicker Phase wires Green , Blue & Yellow are the ones that carry the higher current. The other three are Hall wires which can be left as they are.. We are talking about the connectors at the motor? I ask this because, when I connected them all up earlier, I found I was getting that 'juddering' again, until I noticed that the white wire had become disconnected. When I also connected the white wire, all was good.
May 25, 2025May 25 We are talking about the connectors at the motor? I ask this because, when I connected them all up earlier, I found I was getting that 'juddering' again, until I noticed that the white wire had become disconnected. When I also connected the white wire, all was good. The white wire sends speed signal. It is low power but can still cause trouble. I am sure you and Andy will devise a permanent solution .
May 25, 2025May 25 Author The white wire sends speed signal. It is low power but can still cause trouble. I am sure you and Andy will devise a permanent solution .
May 25, 2025May 25 It is not usual for the motor connector to melt , when faults occur they are more then often at the controller end.
May 25, 2025May 25 Well, I connected all of the wires temporarily, by just twisting them together. The motor is fine and I rode the bike around the block. I just need to find a way of connecting all of these wires permanently, but so that they can be disconnected if required. Solder them together. You'll probably never need to disconnect them again, and if you do, you can cut them. All that is a lot less work than ordering connectors and soldering both sides, and it'll give a much more reliable solution, and it's cheaper. Win, win, win.
May 27, 2025May 27 Author Well, while I'm waiting for my Wago connectors to arrive, I decided to connect them up. temporarily, with those white, nylon ones that you screw closed. I decided to try connecting just the three thick wires, and lo-and-behold, it works great! Thanks Nealh.
May 27, 2025May 27 Wago connectors are only good for testing. They have no mechanical cable retension and aren't designed for applications where vibration / movement is present.
May 27, 2025May 27 Author Wago connectors are only good for testing. They have no mechanical cable retension and aren't designed for applications where vibration / movement is present. I see, thank you.
May 27, 2025May 27 Wago connectors are only good for testing. They have no mechanical cable retension and aren't designed for applications where vibration / movement is present. Wago Lever-Nut Style (e.g., 221 or 222 series) Have cable retention via the spring or lever clamp. These are designed to grip the wire securely, including stranded and solid conductors. They are reusable and tool-free, which is part of their appeal. Can handle high currents (some rated up to 32A depending on model and wire gauge). Product details A two-way compact splicing connector with handy lever for quick and hassle-free installations. Use this pack of reusable Wago 221 connectors for solid, stranded and flexible cables. These connectors couldn't be easier to use - simply pull the lever up, insert a stripped conductor and push the lever back down. They help you quickly install devices with higher levels of power consumption, and feature transparent housing for visual inspection. You can use Wago 221 2 way 32A blocks if you don't have crimping tools.
May 27, 2025May 27 Author Wago Lever-Nut Style (e.g., 221 or 222 series) Have cable retention via the spring or lever clamp. These are designed to grip the wire securely, including stranded and solid conductors. They are reusable and tool-free, which is part of their appeal. Can handle high currents (some rated up to 32A depending on model and wire gauge). Product details A two-way compact splicing connector with handy lever for quick and hassle-free installations. Use this pack of reusable Wago 221 connectors for solid, stranded and flexible cables. These connectors couldn't be easier to use - simply pull the lever up, insert a stripped conductor and push the lever back down. They help you quickly install devices with higher levels of power consumption, and feature transparent housing for visual inspection. You can use Wago 221 2 way 32A blocks if you don't have crimping tools. I see, thank you too
May 27, 2025May 27 Wago Lever-Nut Style (e.g., 221 or 222 series) Have cable retention via the spring or lever clamp. These are designed to grip the wire securely, including stranded and solid conductors. They are reusable and tool-free, which is part of their appeal. Can handle high currents (some rated up to 32A depending on model and wire gauge). Product details A two-way compact splicing connector with handy lever for quick and hassle-free installations. Use this pack of reusable Wago 221 connectors for solid, stranded and flexible cables. These connectors couldn't be easier to use - simply pull the lever up, insert a stripped conductor and push the lever back down. They help you quickly install devices with higher levels of power consumption, and feature transparent housing for visual inspection. You can use Wago 221 2 way 32A blocks if you don't have crimping tools. OK I will rephrase that. Wagos rely on the current carrying conductor to retain it in the connector. The insulation is not retained as it should be in an automotive connector. Any connector that is subject to vibration should have secondary retention either through mechanical clamping of the sheath or moulding of the sheath to remove stress (particularly through movement or vibration) from the conductor. Wagos do not do this unless they are inside a junction box with cable glands. I am astounded that a bicycle manufacturer is advocating using such a system as a permanent solution!
May 27, 2025May 27 Author OK I will rephrase that. Wagos rely on the current carrying conductor to retain it in the connector. The insulation is not retained as it should be in an automotive connector. Any connector that is subject to vibration should have secondary retention either through mechanical clamping of the sheath or moulding of the sheath to remove stress (particularly through movement or vibration) from the conductor. Wagos do not do this unless they are inside a junction box with cable glands. I am astounded that a bicycle manufacturer is advocating using such a system as a permanent solution! Actually, Woosh wrote: "You could use WAGO blocks as a temporary solution"
May 27, 2025May 27 Actually, Woosh wrote: "You could use WAGO blocks as a temporary solution" I know that is what he wrote originally, I was more concerned that as you had already tested with terminal blocks you were then going to fit Wagos. Well, while I'm waiting for my Wago connectors to arrive, I decided to connect them up. temporarily, with those white, nylon ones that you screw closed.
May 27, 2025May 27 OK I will rephrase that. Wagos rely on the current carrying conductor to retain it in the connector. The insulation is not retained as it should be in an automotive connector. Any connector that is subject to vibration should have secondary retention either through mechanical clamping of the sheath or moulding of the sheath to remove stress (particularly through movement or vibration) from the conductor. Wagos do not do this unless they are inside a junction box with cable glands. I am astounded that a bicycle manufacturer is advocating using such a system as a permanent solution! If I understand correctly, the problem is narrowed down to one small signal wire inside the controller box which forms with the rack battery a continuous box. The box is splashproof and the cables exit through a hole under the saddle. Saneagle has always recommended to solder everything but the OP would like to retain the possibility to disconnect the controller should it need replacing. The white wire is from memory, terminated on a mini JST connector. The crimp has a little lip, when you push it into the shell of the connector, the protruding lip acts like a latch, retains the crimp inside the plastic body. To repair it, I normally use a scalpel to make the lip to stick out a bit more and push it back in. If the crimp is damaged, I would put a new crimp. Besides the white wire, I thought that the OP found that one of the phase wires had its 4mm bullet crimp overheated and its transparent plastic sleeve melted. I thought that the OP wanted to fix this. Hence WAGO as a temporary solution. Some pictures would help avoiding going in circles. Edited May 27, 2025May 27 by Woosh
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