Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

Consumers won’t get the benefit of the upgrade, the US system is downgraded in its accuracy, the accuracy of the EU system will only be available to the military,
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The full accuracy only for the military, yes of course, but Galileo is more accurate at consumer level too. Hence my ongoing interest over the years for I have other uses for it in natural history. I and others need greater placement accuracy than the 6 to 8 feet at best in any direction of the US system.

I fully agree that we should be in with Galileo's military capability for the reasons you've given.
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[oldtom]

And it will end up as much of a white elephant as the EU one will become.

I sense a predisposition on your part that somehow the EU is destined to fail. Perhaps you have knowledge denied to the rest of us, maybe you're a clairvoyant!

Tom

 

[Woosh]

I and others need greater placement accuracy than the 6 to 8 feet at best in any direction of the US system.

for driverless cars.
I was driving in Australia with a satnav a few years back. They build every year so many new roads and re-arrange road junctions that the satnav quite often got itself into panic mode.

 

[oldgroaner]

Why couldn’t we stay in?

China are in, Morocco are in, Israel are in, and many others,

What I meant to explain is that the EU using it as a pawn is a mistake, the thing holding back Russia isn’t the 5,000 troops on the border, it’s the symbolism that you take one on you take all on, the value of an EU GPS is that it helps bind the military of Europe together, shared systems and shared technology with a shared focus on what it needs to do, excluding the UK cheapens the product,
The actual system is not that hard to build, the Uk could easily build there own, or join one of the other competing systems, but even if building our own is made technologically better, would still not address the unity in defence that the EU one achieves, but loses if we are not included,

Staying in the EU is the easiest solution to every problem bar the referendum problem,

That doesn’t mean that excluding the UK from the system, or even threatening to do that isn’t a mistake, or that the UK withdrawing from it isn’t a mistake either, it’s a bad idea from both sides, because both benefit from it.

While this is true we are not in control anymore,are we? and frankly that goes for just about everything where the EU is concerned.
What a mess.

 

[Woosh]

What a mess.

DC offered an omelette.
Blame him.

 

[flecc]

for driverless cars.
I was driving in Australia with a satnav a few years back. They build every year so many new roads and re-arrange road junctions that the satnav quite often got itself into panic mode.

Although I've given an "agree", truly driverless cars are a very long way off. There are many other applications now that need even great accuracy than driverless cars.

As for road changes, we do that in London too. Some while ago on a familiar inner London route the road I usually drove the length of suddenly stopped with housing built on it. There was a turn alongside to escape through, but that led the opposite way to that I was intending and to a different destination.
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[oyster]

As for road changes, we do that in London too.

Many years ago I worked in Reading. One day, a new one-way system was instituted in the middle of an ordinary working day. Trouble was, vehicles were parked the wrong way round on some of the roads and couldn't simply turn round. It was reported that the police were very dischuffed with the council for putting drivers into impossible situations.

 

[flecc]

Many years ago I worked in Reading. One day, a new one-way system was instituted in the middle of an ordinary working day. Trouble was, vehicles were parked the wrong way round on some of the roads and couldn't simply turn round. It was reported that the police were very dischuffed with the council for putting drivers into impossible situations.

A good change to polish their reversing skills!
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[oldgroaner]

I wish them luck with this but suspect Trumpo will get away as usual
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-new-york-lawsuit-sue-foundation-underwood-invanka-eric-a8398996.html
"
New York files lawsuit against Trump and his charity over 'persistently illegal conduct'

From the Independent

 

[ianboydsnr]

I sense a predisposition on your part that somehow the EU is destined to fail. Perhaps you have knowledge denied to the rest of us, maybe you're a clairvoyant!

Tom

Your not very good at guessing what other people think are you?

How do you get from anything I have said that I think the EU will fail, come on give me an insight to your strange and wonderful world.

 

[oldgroaner]

Again from the independent
"
Brexit: Theresa May's compromise plan falls apart as pro-EU rebels brand it 'unacceptable'

That didn't last long, did it?

 

[oyster]

I wish them luck with this but suspect Trumpo will get away as usual

If needed, he'll just (pretend) to pardon himself.

 

[ianboydsnr]

While this is true we are not in control anymore,are we? and frankly that goes for just about everything where the EU is concerned.
What a mess.

Who wants to be in control? Control of what?
The continuing safety of Europe is too important to play games with,
It’s their Europe as well as ours

 

[Zlatan]

Don't know anything about Galileo etc (except I thought system was already integrated partially into USA system currently used) But I, ve been using GPS since it first arrived.(first hand held around 97) At first for normal users errors were introduced to keep positional error quite high (speed accuracy from start has always been exceptional.)Units don't arrive at speed via ds/DT but rather by examining frequency change of incoming signal.. (s) Units have always been capable of giving a speed (and accurately)without actually changing positional data. When error was removed and units started to adapt differential capability (ie comparing position of unit to a known land/marker) accuracy improved lots.
The units seem to always exceed the "guaranteed" accuracy. On clear skies, with optimum positioning I believe they only claim a 15 m radius. Working on known positions from charts etc I have never (since error switched off) known error to be over 5 ft. In fact in use I assume old fashioned data is the one in error. We have often navigated into channels/harbours purely on GPS.
With regards to speed, I work on unit being spot on. Accuracy is good enough for speed events to accept GPS from even tiny units. (A list of accepted units is published by organisations involved)
The current system to my mind is approaching perfect. (For my uses. ie speed varification on ski boat, navigation when working and speed / distance windsurfing)
Perhaps somebody could explain ramifications Galileo and our loss of involvement. (Can't see how users could be stopped from utilising time signals transmitted. Units only receive and perform algorithms on time/frequency changes. I don't think they communicate back)
Completely irrelevant but a company used to build a unit that never calculated position. Worked purely on speed, used to be used to arrive at speeds on F1 cars.(They knew way around track without GPS) Purely worked on doppler. I believe it was called Vbox. Don't think it's used anymore. Standard units will do the job now.
If you don't want to drop a bomb down somebody's chimney can't see why we need another system. It's great already.

 

[ianboydsnr]

Don't know anything about Galileo etc (except I thought system was already integrated partially into USA system currently used) But I, ve been using GPS since it first arrived.(first hand held around 97) At first for normal users errors were introduced to keep positional error quite high (speed accuracy from start has always been exceptional.)Units don't arrive at speed via ds/DT but rather by examining frequency change of incoming signal.. (s) Units have always been capable of giving a speed (and accurately)without actually changing positional data. When error was removed and units started to adapt differential capability (ie comparing position of unit to a known land/marker) accuracy improved lots.
The units seem to always exceed the "guaranteed" accuracy. On clear skies, with optimum positioning I believe they only claim a 15 m radius. Working on known positions from charts etc I have never (since error switched off) known error to be over 5 ft. In fact in use I assume old fashioned data is the one in error. We have often navigated into channels/harbours purely on GPS.
With regards to speed, I work on unit being spot on. Accuracy is good enough for speed events to accept GPS from even tiny units. (A list of accepted units is published by organisations involved)
The current system to my mind is approaching perfect. (For my uses. ie speed varification on ski boat, navigation when working and speed / distance windsurfing)
Perhaps somebody could explain ramifications Galileo and our loss of involvement. (Can't see how users could be stopped from utilising time signals transmitted. Units only receive and perform algorithms on time/frequency changes. I don't think they communicate back)

I don’t think it’s about the user operational use of sat navs in general use, it’s about the super accurate use by armed forces, the encoding part of it so it can’t be used by an enemy, and closing down use of it in areas of conflict,

If someone knows better then shout up.

 

[Woosh]

That didn't last long, did it?

that's a risk that comes with the profession.
What does she expect when she yields to one side of the two warring factions?

 

[Zlatan]

I don’t think it’s about the user operational use of sat navs in general use, it’s about the super accurate use by armed forces, the encoding part of it so it can’t be used by an enemy, and closing down use of it in areas of conflict,

If someone knows better then shout up.

There must be something I, m missing because the current things are already incredible. Can't really see what benefit would be even if units became more accurate which I can't see anyway.

 

[Woosh]

If you don't want to drop a bomb down somebody's chimney can't see why we need another system. It's great already.

the military do.
Galileo encrypted goes down to 1cm accuracy.

 

[oldgroaner]

Who wants to be in control? Control of what?
The continuing safety of Europe is too important to play games with,
It’s their Europe as well as ours

Not after Brexit, Europe will be theres and us just outsiders. By our choice, if Europe is important to us why are we leaving?

 

[flecc]

Perhaps somebody could explain ramifications Galileo and our loss of involvement.

My interest is only in the positional accuracy with consumer mode usage. The best I can get with the US system is often around 6 feet off and quite often 8 feet off, and that isn't remotely good enough for many natural history usages. Galileo's intended consumer accuracy when completed is well within one metre which is very much better. There's world of difference between the area covered by a 16 foot radius circle and one of circa 5 feet when looking for something tiny in dense plant or woodland litter ground.

Of course the EU's interest is in the superior accuracy of Galileo in military mode, substantially better than that of the now old US system. Indeed the USA persistently tried very hard to put the EU off the whole Galileo project. As ever they want to retain control as they do through NATO and resent any independent military capability threatening their self appointed role of world policeman.

Personally I'm glad that Galileo exists and that both Russia and China have their own systems. It's balanced power if achieved that will keep the world peaceful.
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