Brexit, for once some facts.

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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You are both dreaming again because neither are eve going to happen..ever ever.. ,
I'm not dreaming since I realise that we won't be returning to single sex education in our society where political correctness is more important than results.

And there is also evidence to suggest single sex schools do damage..for obvious reasons as well..
The difference though is that the educational damage to boys due to mixed sex education is nationwide across the board and widely acknowledged. The other forms of damage supposedly caused by single sex education weren't remotely widespread, the evidence isolated and patchy.
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flecc

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And what evidence..its hypothetical evidence because its impossible to compare.
Not true, the comparison is with results before and after. Since the changes boys results have declined while those of girls has if anything improved as their standards have risen comparatively in the classroom and in examinations.

Teachers across the country have noted these changes, commenting widely upon them, and education authorities have commented likewise. Since they outcome has been "swings and roundabouts", gains for losses, there's no impetus for changing back.

But I think it should change back, raising boys standards again. Girls didn't suffer previously because of single sex schooling, they suffered due to the old fashioned low expectations of past schools for their gender, which shouldn't and wouldn't be repeated.
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Mar 9, 2016
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How many teachers still working can even remember single sex or none integrated schools ?? Not sure but I,d guess there are none left. As normal flex you mix up circumstantialopinion with evidence.
Comparibng year on year results is pointless anyway, GCSE results have always been year on year standardised. Not year by year. ( ie top 5% get top grades , etc..each year) So only comparison you have Girls to Boys results. Assume any changes in that relationship is missing out what else is going on.
I want to meet a teacher who has actually worked in a state run single sex school ?? So I,m not sure which teachers you are referring to...
Raising school leaving age ( ROSLA) had its effects, but that was nearly 50 years ago..Its 2016 flecc. Buller act, Baker days and god knows what else have affected education...but going back to how we did things 60 years ago is bonkers..and a Ste backwards. They dropped 11 plus, grammar schools and single sex schools because it was right thing to do. Which makes a change in education.

Think there are about 80 single sex secondary age schools with some form of state funding. No under 11's. There are 3400 comps in UK.
 
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oldgroaner

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"
Britain to ‘leverage’ £11bn of foreign aid to build new trade deals after Brexit
While rules bar Britain from explicitly tying trade deals to foreign aid, Mrs Patel plans to use the department's budget in Britain's "national interest" to help with the Brexit process."

Rules? those aren't rules, they're more of guidelines really, we're Brexiters, arent we?
Time to remember that "Britannia Waives the Rules!" (same as always)
Apologies to "The Pirates Code"

Anyway a certain middle eastern nation will still buy our fancy weapons even if we stop bribing them!
 
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oldgroaner

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"
So who's guarding the oceans? Royal Navy's ENTIRE fleet of their most advanced £1billion warships are docked in port together for first time in years
  • Six Type 45 destroyers are docked in Portsmouth Harbour for reasons including giving crews time off over summer
  • £1bn vessels have either just returned from operation, about to be deployed or having maintenance done, MoD said
  • MoD added scenario was 'unusual but not unprecedented' and ships could be docked for 'a few weeks to a month'
  • Spokesman insisted it was not connected to the need for ships to be refitted with new engines following problems

"Brexit will mean we regain control of out Borders"!

Really?
Is there anything Whatever left of the promises made?

ANYTHING??

And the Navy have a favourite song; "We're all going on a summer Holiday!"
I'll bet Putin is laughing so hard it hurts!
That last bit is interesting "Spokesman insisted it was not connected to the need for ships to be refitted with new engines following problems"
In other words it will happen again soon! thanks for telling the entire world!
 
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flecc

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How many teachers still working can even remember single sex or none integrated schools ?? Not sure but I,d guess there are none left. As normal flex you mix up circumstantialopinion with evidence.
As you say, now it's historic, since I'm speaking of past evidence from long experienced teachers who bridged the changes.

What is current fact is our poor standing in the international education tables, and the countries doing far better than us differing from many of our current education practices.

However, it's clear we are not going to agree. You are sticking with what is the politically correct line which is also that of government, while I differ from it certain respects, so we'll have to agree to differ.
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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"
  • Six Type 45 destroyers are docked in Portsmouth Harbour for reasons including giving crews time off over summer
  • £1bn vessels have either just returned from operation, about to be deployed or having maintenance done, MoD said
  • MoD added scenario was 'unusual but not unprecedented' and ships could be docked for 'a few weeks to a month'
  • Spokesman insisted it was not connected to the need for ships to be refitted with new engines following problems
The type 45 anti-missile destroyer has been a disaster, all aspects of it's electric motor drive systems constantly breaking down.

The £1bn worth referred to is largely HMS Ocean and HMS Bulwark, the navy's two largest warships, neither of which have any defence capability. Both were designed for the express purpose of attacking other countries. They've returned from the Mediterranean where they've been rescuing and landing the flood of immigrants crossing the seas in that region.
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Mar 9, 2016
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As you say, now it's historic, since I'm speaking of past evidence from long experienced teachers who bridged the changes.

What is current fact is our poor standing in the international education tables, and the countries doing far better than us differing from many of our current education practices.

However, it's clear we are not going to agree. You are sticking with what is the politically correct line which is also that of government, while I differ from it certain respects, so we'll have to agree to differ.
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I accept we can agree to differ but I,m not arguing my side over anything to do with politically correct. Its nothing to do with political correctness. Its a simple matter of being fair to all, not just boys or the academically gifted.
There is simply no reason whatsoever ( factual) to assume lads get better education if taught in isolation. Same for girls. Its an opinion .
My daughter runs training college for fire service. She,s faced discrimination from public and friends but thankfully never fire service. She won silver axe as a new recruit. ( top technical and physical student,in her region. First female to win it) She did so on merit. Where would she be in your antiquated education system., never even realising she could take lads on at their own game and beat them.
The world should be a meritocracy, not based on gender. Sooner kids realise that the better. If girls are beating lads in school, good luck to them. Its probably because they are working harder.
My girls were brought up knowing sex stereotyping is complete rubbish. Eldest at 14 could beat 95% of adult blokes in slalom course water skiing. At 17 she was Uk champion.
You want to change system to put lads back in their rightful place. Bullshit.
Life is a competition, giving any group a head start by government policy is appalling. If lads cant cope ...tough ****.
 
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flecc

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I accept we can agree to differ but I,m not arguing my side over anything to do with politically correct. Its nothing to do with political correctness. Its a simple matter of being fair to all, not just boys or the academically gifted.
There is simply no reason whatsoever ( factual) to assume lads get better education if taught in isolation. Same for girls. Its an opinion .
My daughter runs training college for fire service. She,s faced discrimination from public and friends but thankfully never fire service. She won silver axe as a new recruit. ( top technical and physical student,in her region. First female to win it) She did so on merit. Where would she be in your antiquated education system., never even realising she could take lads on at their own game and beat them.
The world should be a meritocracy, not based on gender. Sooner kids realise that the better. If girls are beating lads in school, good luck to them. Its probably because they are working harder.
My girls were brought up knowing sex stereotyping is complete rubbish. Eldest at 14 could beat 95% of adult blokes in slalom course water skiing. At 17 she was Uk champion.
You want to change system to put lads back in their rightful place. Bullshit.
Life is a competition, giving any group a head start by government policy is appalling. If lads cant cope ...tough ****.
I agree with much of what you say, and especially with fairness, and yes, the girls are doing better because they are working harder.

I certainly don't think in terms of a rightful place for the boys, there isn't one. I just want to remove a distracting factor that impedes the boys education at secondary level. However you probably don't accept that exists, which is where we have to part company.
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Mar 9, 2016
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Trouble is that distraction lasts a lifetime, perhaps we should be segregated at work too ??

Mind you I was more distracted by motor bikes, football and rugby... don't know how I passed any exams.
 
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derf

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Trouble is that distraction lasts a lifetime, perhaps we should be segregated at work too ??

Mind you I was more distracted by motor bikes, football and rugby... don't know how I passed any exams.
for what my very 2P is worth, i foudn the only redeeming feature in education a few in retropsect crucial relationships with teachers and lecturers. But otside of these in a very authoritarian, repressed system back in africa it was very largely a complete waste of time. And teh relationships were without exception anomalies - with teachers/lecturers who were oustiders in a repressive system, often politically too. One thing I took from that (other than a nihilistic sense that much of what is systemic in society is a bit like parliamentary politics, a sad joke) is that it's OK to be an outsider, one shouldnt rely on the system too much. I have no idea given that why i didnt see brexit coming.
 
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derf

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Yes they were deluded weren't they? what other conclusion is possible? otherwise they are as criminal as he was, and before you ask, no i did not vote for him.
Re Michael Foot? because he didn't look like a double glazing salesman and because they had other ideas, and where did they get them?
The usual campaign of lies in the media of course.
Answer this one, why did the voters give power to Cameron, when he lied publicly during the election?
Same goes for Osborne, people are influenced by the propaganda in the press, as I and others have been telling you all along.
And if you imagine May is any better, no, you can't possibly believe that, surely
And Boris and Gove lied too as did Farage, and still after all that you have faith in any of them?
REALLY?
Tell me what benefits are you expecting to get personally out of leaving the EU?
Are there any of the things you were promised or even hinted at still likely to come true?
I expect that the economy will be just fine, but a lesson from History for you.
When the United Kingdom economy was most successful the lower classes were treated like dirt, lived in poverty and died young in squalor and disease.
And you have given power to the same squalid bunch who will put the clock back to those times, even though the signs are there for all to see they have been doing that for years.
Time to invoke article 50 and the reality lesson begin.
this is a bit of an oblique reply, but as the pound heads for parity with the euro (factor in BoE saying the next year will be 0% growth in UK, in other words "recession, probably awful, but we cant say it")
https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/gbp-live-today/5251-pound-to-euro-forecast-for-the-week-ahead
i'm struck by the fact that everyone thinks teh 10% price rises now is a big deal (its nothing compared to what will happen in six months). Which to state the obvious will trigger inflation, and a dilemma for the economy. The odd phenomenon - and I'm not english and frankly dont quite understand it - is that none of it will matter i think. I suspect article 50 will be triggered regardless. There's something quite beyond stoic going on. On one level i guess it may be that life is generally so good that having the pound loose a third of its vlaue and self inflicting a serious recession doesnt really affect the average UK standard of living?
 

oldgroaner

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this is a bit of an oblique reply, but as the pound heads for parity with the euro (factor in BoE saying the next year will be 0% growth in UK, in other words "recession, probably awful, but we cant say it")
https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/gbp-live-today/5251-pound-to-euro-forecast-for-the-week-ahead
i'm struck by the fact that everyone thinks teh 10% price rises now is a big deal (its nothing compared to what will happen in six months). Which to state the obvious will trigger inflation, and a dilemma for the economy. The odd phenomenon - and I'm not english and frankly dont quite understand it - is that none of it will matter i think. I suspect article 50 will be triggered regardless. There's something quite beyond stoic going on. On one level i guess it may be that life is generally so good that having the pound loose a third of its vlaue and self inflicting a serious recession doesnt really affect the average UK standard of living?
We should perhaps do as the Chinese do and name the years after animals.
My nomination for 2017
"The Year of the Lemmings"
 

trex

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There's something quite beyond stoic going on. On one level i guess it may be that life is generally so good that having the pound loose a third of its vlaue and self inflicting a serious recession doesnt really affect the average UK standard of living?
They won't be after Christmas.
the main wave of price hikes hasn't happen yet.
the full force of the cheaper Pound will hit the pockets of mums and dads in the run-up to Christmas. The trade unions may then start a few strikes in the new year, asking for 10% pay rise. My guess is the tory remainers would be willing to sit and wait for brexiters to get fed up.
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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On one level i guess it may be that life is generally so good that having the pound loose a third of its value and self inflicting a serious recession doesnt really affect the average UK standard of living?
Ours being such an unequal society in the UK makes this true for a large proportion of the population.
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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I understand there's a fuss about David Cameron's Honours List recommendations including Remain campaigners but no Brexit campaigners.

I think that's as it should be, why honour those who've done us so much damage at present. If Brexit is eventually very successful, those who campaigned for it can be honoured then in recognition. But to do it now could look very silly if Brexit fails.
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