Protecting instinctively with such as masking in enclosed premises and maintaining a safe distancing/time period ratio.
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Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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Alastair Campbell's Marcus Rashford 'joke' backfires
Gavin Williamson has been widely mocked after mixing up footballer Marcus Rashford and rugby player Maro Itoje. But Alastair Campbell’s bid to get in on the joke appears to have backfired in rather spectacular fashion. The New Labour spinner – who now spends his time rallying against Brexit –...
www.spectator.co.uk
Whatever gaff Tories can make Labour can go one better. Is Campbell so out of touch he thinks this is funny or simply stupid.
Danidl
My point was even with a proven vaccine there are millions refusing it, the percentage doing so are higher in countries having experienced covid relatively mildly. Figures of 40% and higher are talked about in NZ.
Last night some Covid unit consultant was saying 90% of his patients had had no vaccine and his ward in London was almost full.
I, ve got 4 mates who are adamant, even with all the recent news about vaccines, they will not be having it. Bonkers, I know, but that's where we are. NHS heading for total overload this winter because idiots refusing help.And, they will blame Government.
30% of hospital beds are needed for treating covid patients.
It will take time to increase the capacity of the NHS to cope with the load.
We also have to learn to accept hundreds of covid deaths every day.
Contract that if you will with the Irish experience. .. we are now at 80% of the total over 12 years population ,and 90% + , of the over 16 years . ..and the percentage increases with the age cohort. This is because a consistent logical unhyped message was delivered from all our civil servants and political bods.Alastair Campbell's Marcus Rashford 'joke' backfires
Gavin Williamson has been widely mocked after mixing up footballer Marcus Rashford and rugby player Maro Itoje. But Alastair Campbell’s bid to get in on the joke appears to have backfired in rather spectacular fashion. The New Labour spinner – who now spends his time rallying against Brexit –...
Whatever gaff Tories can make Labour can go one better. Is Campbell so out of touch he thinks this is funny or simply stupid.
Danidl
My point was even with a proven vaccine there are millions refusing it, the percentage doing so are higher in countries having experienced covid relatively mildly. Figures of 40% and higher are talked about in NZ.
Last night some Covid unit consultant was saying 90% of his patients had had no vaccine and his ward in London was almost full.
I, ve got 4 mates who are adamant, even with all the recent news about vaccines, they will not be having it. Bonkers, I know, but that's where we are. NHS heading for total overload this winter because idiots refusing help.And, they will blame Government.
Even so our data is consistent with your Covid consultant ... 90% of the people in our Covid hospital wards are non vaccinated.
I fully expect that when NZ get their program underway, it's rollout will be more Irish than UK.
Figures from Our World Data (2 days old)
Not quite the picture you paint.
UK is probably 3rd in Europe on fully vaccinated, with nearly all European countries between 60 and 70% fully vaccinated. (look on Our World Data Vaccine Uptake)
France experiencing much higher levels of vaccine hesitancy than UK. New Zealand are worried and are showing great variation in expected uptake. (highest 80% to a low of 45% depending on which data/survey) Timee will tell.
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Those world data figures are misleading though, the UK's on the total almost 67 millions population including babies and the very young. They should be based on those who can be vaccinated. For the UK that's 80.4 % fully vaccinated, not the 65.5% they report.
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If you only take into account those eligible to be vaccinated, it makes some figures look very odd. For example, every time the range of ages changes, the percentage changes. And if, as now, some under 18s have been vaccinated, you need to make sure they are not counted against the 18+ population.
Sticking with whole population is much simpler and less likely to be messed up.
And it gives a more realistic picture of what's going on,afterall entire population can be affected by covid.
Less realistic since the younger ages have so small a chance of being affected by Covid and most can't be vaccinated anyway.
It'a bit like giving the average MPG of all cars on our new market when 15% of the sales now are electric. Also simpler, but as above, false.
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..the Numbers I give are correct for Ireland.
Children under 12 , who are part of our full population are not (yet ) eligible for vaccination , but of course are in the 28% of the total population not vaccinated. The UK numbers are based on older cohorts, . I cannot speak to the NZ statistics.
Our main problem at present is infection coming from NI , where the death rates and infection rates are about 4 times higher, and have been consistently so for many weeks.
Yes Oyster it would have been a better figure to start with, but we are where we are. Traditionally the figures were being given as a fraction of the eligible cohort..which is a good way of seeing how effective targets are being managed. Again the UK figures have always been skewed by requiring deaths within a fixed period ...and I noticed back in the day that Michigan was doing the same.
Habit building, and it's easy to get caught out. I thought the masking habit was very fully instilled in me, until Thursday last week. I'd got out of my car at the far end of the supermarket car park checking that I had the mask ready in my pocket, but on the walk to the entrance got distracted by an incident. Reflecting on that and its circumstances I entered the supermarket and was nearing the end of my shop and about to go to the checkout when I realised that I hadn't put my mask on.
It showed that despite over a year of consistent masking it was still an unusual action and not a reliable automatic habit, easily forgotten if attention drawn away from the job in hand.
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I agree with oyster. The young people can spread the disease and well as any older unvaccinated person.
But if they can't be vaccinated, they have no logical place in vaccination performance figures since that part is unimprovable.
I get the arguments in support of whole population inclusion but they seem to be mostly so comparisons can be drawn. Why should they be, it's not a competition? All that matters in every country is achieving as close as possible to 100% of those we can vaccinate, but that cannot be shown by the present method of including the indeterminate number who can't be vaccinated.
Producing useless data is always irrational.
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why?
Children get vaccinated since 6 month old.
The balance of benefit / risk of vaccinations is a political decision.
The reason they are not vaccinated is irrelevant, that's a different argument.
It's that they are not in this case which matters in producing useless data.
Only producing data of the percentage vaccinated of those who can be is actually useful in assessing on the spot performance. That a widening of the range of ages being vaccinated brings falls in percentages doesn't matter since historic performance no longer has measuring or judgement value. Only the present counts in such as this subject.
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And that gets back to my argument that the total available does not, to the best of my knowledge, exclude those who cannot be vaccinated - such as those undergoing chemo (specific example known to me - there are many others).
But that is a tiny number in proportion to all the up to 16s or 18s.
No data drawn from many millions can be perfect, but we should avoid deliberately including the huge inaccuracy that brings a 15% discrepancy in the final figures as those World in Data figures do.
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from epidemic point of view, the percentage of population lacking appropriate antibodies matters much more than their age. The Spanish flu killed a lot more young people while it's the reverse for covid. Different countries have different policies regarding what age is suitable for covid vaccination. That proves it's politics.