Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Isn't it a strange world we live in. We are all seeing and some experiencing consequences of war, earth quakes, world wide economic decline and poor governance to point of incompetence.
And what triggered largest number of Ofcom complaints?
When Stacey Solomon suggested 2 Rabbits be moved to an outside hutch to help declutter a house on "declutter my house".
I remember from my child hood going to mates house and him enquiring "what's for tea mum?"
" Snowy"
Following day we made a drum from "Snowy".
How times change.
And what triggered largest number of Ofcom complaints?
When Stacey Solomon suggested 2 Rabbits be moved to an outside hutch to help declutter a house on "declutter my house".
I remember from my child hood going to mates house and him enquiring "what's for tea mum?"
" Snowy"
Following day we made a drum from "Snowy".
How times change.
Likewise, during the war we ate our chickens and rabbits, many having been named. In fact my expertise in killing birds painlessly without any wing flapping etc dates from when I was 8 years old.
All is not lost though, there are many farmer's children who maintain the old customs and skills.
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Strictly fwiw I think its displacement behaviour - a bit like primates meticulously grooming to avoid conflict, or birds preening excessively after a fight. I mean, other than ukraine and brexit and a pandemic there are all the other natural disasters you mention that may well resonate with what Freud refer to as our thanatos, the primal desire to murder each other.
Freud would be thrilled at his theory becoming not just a desire but an intent, killing not just each other but all life.
i.e. Our insistence on continuing to travel in private cars and aircraft and consume to the limit everything our income, credit and discounting can extend to, all in the certain knowledge that this will extinguish all life on earth.
The ultimate form of the belief that bad things only ever happen to other people.
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But of course bad things only ever happen to other people .. not to me, because if they did, I wouldn't be around ,now would I?. Since I am around that's proof they don't innnit? Stands to logic,
Dear FOI Team,
Thank you for providing further information. Your first response was somewhat disingenuous.
It's great to see the Council spending so much time and effor (and taxpayer money, of course) on people who don't contribute.
If only the Council was able to offer the same level of care to those fools who pay their Council tax every month.
Yours sincerely,
Michelle Watts
www.whatdotheyknow.com
Thank you for providing further information. Your first response was somewhat disingenuous.
It's great to see the Council spending so much time and effor (and taxpayer money, of course) on people who don't contribute.
If only the Council was able to offer the same level of care to those fools who pay their Council tax every month.
Yours sincerely,
Michelle Watts
Free Bus Passes For Ukrainians - a Freedom of Information request to Oxfordshire County Council
Regarding the free bus passes for the Ukrainians as detailed on the Oxfordshire County Council Website: https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/council/u... Please provide the following information: 1. Provide minutes of meetings and all emails / communications concerning the discussion of the "bus...
Just been a fantastic interview with Pat Symmonds. (chemist/engineer F1 car designer) on F1 sky.
Good explanation of drop in fuels, including SAF (sustainable air fuels) and pros/cons around synthetic sustainable fuels and their place in both F1 and World in general.
His words
"F1 will be carbon neutral by 2030"..
I do suspect drop in fuels (fuel produced from recovered carbon either from air, waste, vegetation etc) will provide way more mobile power production than generally thought at moment. Porsche are investing millions in its production/recovery. At moment end cost for mass usage is prohibitive, but no doubt as production builds costs will drop relatively.
There are problems around its introduction (generally synthetic fuels have lower energy density, consequently you use more to produce equal power)
Racing World can navigate around issue (rules are changing from a mass to an energy measurement of fuel to compensate)
Interesting times in some ways.
Imagine if we could replace petrol/diesel with a sustainable replacement. Lithium etal batteries would be a mere hiccup in transports history..???
Good explanation of drop in fuels, including SAF (sustainable air fuels) and pros/cons around synthetic sustainable fuels and their place in both F1 and World in general.
His words
"F1 will be carbon neutral by 2030"..
I do suspect drop in fuels (fuel produced from recovered carbon either from air, waste, vegetation etc) will provide way more mobile power production than generally thought at moment. Porsche are investing millions in its production/recovery. At moment end cost for mass usage is prohibitive, but no doubt as production builds costs will drop relatively.
There are problems around its introduction (generally synthetic fuels have lower energy density, consequently you use more to produce equal power)
Racing World can navigate around issue (rules are changing from a mass to an energy measurement of fuel to compensate)
Interesting times in some ways.
Imagine if we could replace petrol/diesel with a sustainable replacement. Lithium etal batteries would be a mere hiccup in transports history..???
Yes, though much as I'm genuinely too the kind of petrol head that love the visceral throb of an old series land rover (and lots of other things that involve explosions and the mechanical motion of steel on steel) it's hard to escape the basic inefficiency of internal combustion. It stands no chance against a brushless motor
Not too sure about that. BLDC in isolation has incredible power to weight ratio. As a complete system (ie a fuel tank versus a battery) the ICE wins hands down.
Got an R1 engine in my garage at moment. Dyno print out 185 BHP @ 11800 rpm. Weight 55 kg. Including exhaust, gbox, and ancils. Fuel tank (full of fuel) 15kg. And 2 stroke engines can beat that easy? And jets beat them easy.!
On total system BLDC are well down list for power to weight.
F1 racing fuel has just under 9kwh per litre.(that's around 800g) Putting that in perspective the lightest 1kwh battery at moment weighs 8kg.???
Even allowing for inefficiency of ICE that's a staggering amount of power available.
I really think rather than us now experiencing the demise of ICE we will see its rebirth as folk realise our reliance on batteries/bldc etc is ill founded.
Drop in fuels will emerge for mass market.??
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I don't think so, ICE high output involves pollution. For power ICE will always win over battery EV as a complete system and will probably never disappear. There aren't many charging points on battlefields and as the present shows, we won't be giving up warfare anytime soon.
But there are other electric ways. Fuel cells for example, now becoming more common on longer distance e-buses. And then there's the extensive use of trolleybus and tram systems throughout the world, no battery to carry and easily adapted to trucks on reserved motorway lanes.
We already have e-trucks now including 40 tonne tractor units for artics. Artic heads for motorway on battery power, then engages gantry to run from that e-feed to the other end, topping up battery at the same time, then battery to final destination.
The alternative being proposed is dedicated trolley fed tractors between the motorway points with battery tractor units taking the trailersto the local destinations, rather like the little Scammel mechanical horses of old.
And of course there will be far less motorised travel in future, people don't seem to realisee how true that already is. I remember long ago when the average annual mileage of British car owners was 12,000. Now it's down to only 7,300, heading towards halving.
It's probably even below that now so many are having their groceries delivered and buying increasingly online, a trend bound to continue.
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You are obviously generally correct and without doubt we will see exponential growth (pushed on us?) in electrical transport.
However, the view that the arguments are so much in favour, in all departments, of battery/BLDC/end use E motors is really missing point.
Just as in F1 the mass market designers do not necessarily produce the "best" solution but rather the solution that best suits regulations, trends, marketing and to a degree fashion.
If F1 had a completely free, blank design remit there is no way in earth they, d be carting around batteries, energy recover systems etc etc. They, d have that V6 ICE engine sat on its own, powering a vehicle less than half the weight of current "hybrids". Current F1 achieve incredible pace not because of all this "progress" but rather in spite of it. Aerodynamics, ground effects, suspension design, brake design and incredible tolerance engineering along with advances in metallurgy have given us record breaking F1s. I wonder what ICE could have achieved without the strangling rules used against it in F1 in its efforts to promote this "revolution" in electric vehicles.
The base of F1 performance is still a 1600cc V6 ICE, churning out circa 700bhp. The electrical component can boost that to circa 1000...In 1986 the BMW m12 engine in qualifying trim was easily in excess of 1300bhp. (at time most dynos couldn't record over 1000,some reckoned engine at 5.5 bar boost was nearer 1500bhp)
No doubt modern F1 is cleaner but I think you do same as many pro electrification folk do flecc. The assumption that there is no pollution for the electricity generated is wrong. There is a massive cost to it, even if put in from grid or from regen. Just look where the power came from initially. In case of regen, its that 1600cc ICE (even when braking) and for road cars it's our grid. That's before we even go into the lithium pollution and production pollution costs.
F1 has become a paid road show to advertise and promote e technology. A technology that actually inhibits the progress of F1 in the first place.
ICE engines will never disappear. They will be backbone of transport system for decades yet, and will see a renaissance when we come to our senses. We will see much larger steps in producing carbon neutral fuel than we ever will in battery technology.
If Pat Symonds or Adrian Newey were given free hand in designing true pinnacle of motor sport, car might have a battery and motor to start it.
R and D should be towards carbon neutral fuels, net zero emission ICE and not all this dead end research in batteries.
HVO Renewable Diesel
watsonfuels.co.uk
This is the real future.
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That problem we are gradually solving, and I'd rather the research effort goes into that.
But I'm not just pro electrification as such, I'm pro far less of the madness of constant travel. Some will always be necessary but it could be greatly reduced as I've shown it already has been.
And what travel remains should be done electrically using the optimal means. Look at the railways for the best future direction. They started with a horse pulling a wagon on rails, then to steam power, then to diesel. Then was the upgrade to diesel-electric and finally to electric only.
Electric almost entirely is the future, not I.C.
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Well here's an equally idiosyncratic (but perhaps more common) example than f1: an everyday city commute of 20 miles. About 6 or so kwh in a small ev. Or (in southern italy) the daily output of 4 good (425w sunpower) solar panels (at least 7kwh after efficiency losses in around 5 or 6 hours). As opposed to 2l fuel in a carefully driven economic small city ice (6l/100km).You are obviously generally correct and without doubt we will see exponential growth (pushed on us?) in electrical transport.
However, the view that the arguments are so much in favour, in all departments, of battery/BLDC/end use E motors is really missing point.
Just as in F1 the mass market designers do not necessarily produce the "best" solution but rather the solution that best suits regulations, trends, marketing and to a degree fashion.
If F1 had a completely free, blank design remit there is no way in earth they, d be carting around batteries, energy recover systems etc etc. They, d have that V6 ICE engine sat on its own, powering a vehicle less than half the weight of current "hybrids". Current F1 achieve incredible pace not because of all this "progress" but rather in spite of it. Aerodynamics, ground effects, suspension design, brake design and incredible tolerance engineering along with advances in metallurgy have given us record breaking F1s. I wonder what ICE could have achieved without the strangling rules used against it in F1 in its efforts to promote this "revolution" in electric vehicles.
The base of F1 performance is still a 1600cc V6 ICE, churning out circa 700bhp. The electrical component can boost that to circa 1000...In 1986 the BMW m12 engine in qualifying trim was easily in excess of 1300bhp. (at time most dynos couldn't record over 1000,some reckoned engine at 5.5 bar boost was nearer 1500bhp)
No doubt modern F1 is cleaner but I think you do same as many pro electrification folk do flecc. The assumption that there is no pollution for the electricity generated is wrong. There is a massive cost to it, even if put in from grid or from regen. Just look where the power came from initially. In case of regen, its that 1600cc ICE (even when braking) and for road cars it's our grid. That's before we even go into the lithium pollution and production pollution costs.
F1 has become a paid road show to advertise and promote e technology. A technology that actually inhibits the progress of F1 in the first place.
ICE engines will never disappear. They will be backbone of transport system for decades yet, and will see a renaissance when we come to our senses. We will see much larger steps in producing carbon neutral fuel than we ever will in battery technology.
If Pat Symonds or Adrian Newey were given free hand in designing true pinnacle of motor sport, car might have a battery and motor to start it.
R and D should be towards carbon neutral fuels, net zero emission ICE and not all this dead end research in batteries.
HVO Renewable Diesel
This is the real future.
Over a year a few solar panels vs 480l fuel (£600 plus). Over ten years (regular small charges mean ev battery last practically indefinitely, solar panels 25 years) it becomes 4800l, £6k..
Totally agree with that but unfortunately that isn't way we are going (being pushed?)
The development, marketing and design are converging on cars needing (in theory) 60kwh plus batteries. To my mind each of these behemoths have sufficient capacity for 2 or 3 sensible sized vehicles.
Seems we are killing off dinosaurs to be replaced not by mammals but by another dinosaur.
How on earth can it be environmentally friendly to drive about in a Tesla equipped with a 100kwh battery. I don't think average person, or car buyer for that matter, actually understands the level of power and resources this new interpretation of the dinosaur is using up. Again, putting it in perspective these modern large cars, SUVs driven by bldcs are actually 350bhp plus monsters. We, ve gone from petrol heads being looked on as anti social to equally energy hungry alternatives being perfectly acceptable. It's crazy.
Instead of legislating against ICE we should have introduced weight limits to cars.
Why, with all the capability and development we have, does it need a 2000kg plus vehicle to transport 2 people. Cars have got bigger and heavier. Electrification has made that worse. A modern 3 cyl engine in a lightweight (sub 700kg)car would use less resources and ultimately produce less pollution than any 2 ton Tesla.
Modern cars have become the worst vehicles ever produced on the load to vehicle weight ratio. And it's fine by everybody. My ebike weighs 23kg,it carries a load of 120kg.
My car weighs 1780kg. Generally it carries same load. Biggest expense isn't moving the load, it's moving the vehicle. Bonkers. And getting worse in name of electrification.
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True, and a large part of the reason is the obsession with safety and getting bigger for the ever fatter and taller population. Two foot longer, six inches wider, massively reinforced central body zone, crumple zones front and rear etc, all adding up to as much extra weight on many IC cars as a traction battery in a Nissan Leaf. A moderate family car like the early Ford Escorts went from 3/4 ton to well over a ton in Focus form. And in e-car form like my Leaf to 1.4 ton.
That's the downside.
Now the upside.
Average driver's annual mileage down 39% over several decades, that is massive.
The switch to e-cars in the UK is dramatically reducing the pollution for each one, and yes, that has been proven. Here in the UK we are producing huge amounts of current from green sources, wind especially, and the night current surplus when e-cars charge is often largely wind.
And as I've been showing, there will be far less cars on the road in future.
So far fewer cars, travelling far less annual distance and producing very little polution. It won't really matter if each one is a little obese.
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Cars getting heavier in name of safety is actually counterproductive. Besides good crash protection, as you well know, is not mutually exclusive to light weight. (smart cars are amazingly good in crash protection, as is the F1 racing pod/tub. (a light component)
I strongly suspect the whole industry has gone down the wrong route.
Carbon fibre, carbon reinforced plastics, epoxy resins, boron steel, have in most parts past the industry by. Buyers have just accepted the increase in weight and related extra expense as being inevitable. It wasn't. That's where legislation should have come in years ago, to steer our requirements to lighter, less polluting, more efficient transport.
Even current small cars (eg Twizzy) are in fact large cars made small rather than built/designed from ground up.
It's senseless that cars from 80s are lighter than those of today. It's laziness and industrial momentum, the likes of which destroyed British car industry.
Lighter cars should have been the norm years ago. With advancement in engine technology we could have witnessed startling economy by now.
YES, there would have been compromises. Towing trailers, roof racks and Caravans should all have been things of past. Cars built as they were 50 years ago allows all that to continue. There has never been any steering of industry until now, and it's now panic managent in every department.
Ban ICE but not the process that got us here,and then allow folk who can afford it to pretend driving in Teslas is saving Polar Bears.
And
UK is currently producing just under 50% of its electricity from gas. (30% from renewable)
Best gas turbines in the world can achieve 60% or so efficiency but the ones UK utilises hover around the 50% mark.
Diesel engines are in fact generally slightly more efficient than Gas Turbines. Modern ones vary between 40 and 60%.(quite an improvement on the original 23 % or so)
So the argument using electrical vehicles increases overall efficiency is wrong.
When will UK ever be using 100% green electricity??
theicct.org
I strongly suspect the whole industry has gone down the wrong route.
Carbon fibre, carbon reinforced plastics, epoxy resins, boron steel, have in most parts past the industry by. Buyers have just accepted the increase in weight and related extra expense as being inevitable. It wasn't. That's where legislation should have come in years ago, to steer our requirements to lighter, less polluting, more efficient transport.
Even current small cars (eg Twizzy) are in fact large cars made small rather than built/designed from ground up.
It's senseless that cars from 80s are lighter than those of today. It's laziness and industrial momentum, the likes of which destroyed British car industry.
Lighter cars should have been the norm years ago. With advancement in engine technology we could have witnessed startling economy by now.
YES, there would have been compromises. Towing trailers, roof racks and Caravans should all have been things of past. Cars built as they were 50 years ago allows all that to continue. There has never been any steering of industry until now, and it's now panic managent in every department.
Ban ICE but not the process that got us here,and then allow folk who can afford it to pretend driving in Teslas is saving Polar Bears.
And
UK is currently producing just under 50% of its electricity from gas. (30% from renewable)
Best gas turbines in the world can achieve 60% or so efficiency but the ones UK utilises hover around the 50% mark.
Diesel engines are in fact generally slightly more efficient than Gas Turbines. Modern ones vary between 40 and 60%.(quite an improvement on the original 23 % or so)
So the argument using electrical vehicles increases overall efficiency is wrong.
When will UK ever be using 100% green electricity??
The ever-improving efficiency of the diesel engine - International Council on Clean Transportation
A strong case can be made that the pending U.S. decision on HDV engines standards should push the technology envelope as hard as is feasible based on emerging efficiency technologies.
theicct.org
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Agree about car weights, but e-power versus diesel isn't about efficiency, it is about less pollution at point of use and that is definitely completely in favour of e-power.Cars getting heavier in name of safety is actually counterproductive. Besides good crash protection, as you well know, is not mutually exclusive to light weight. (smart cars are amazingly good in crash protection, as is the F1 racing pod/tub. (a light component)
I strongly suspect the whole industry has gone down the wrong route.
Carbon fibre, carbon reinforced plastics, epoxy resins, boron steel, have in most parts past the industry by. Buyers have just accepted the increase in weight and related extra expense as being inevitable. It wasn't. That's where legislation should have come in years ago, to steer our requirements to lighter, less polluting, more efficient transport.
Even current small cars (eg Twizzy) are in fact large cars made small rather than built/designed from ground up.
It's senseless that cars from 80s are lighter than those of today. It's laziness and industrial momentum, the likes of which destroyed British car industry.
Lighter cars should have been the norm years ago. With advancement in engine technology we could have witnessed startling economy by now.
YES, there would have been compromises. Towing trailers, roof racks and Caravans should all have been things of past. Cars built as they were 50 years ago allows all that to continue. There has never been any steering of industry until now, and it's now panic managent in every department.
Ban ICE but not the process that got us here,and then allow folk who can afford it to pretend driving in Teslas is saving Polar Bears.
And
UK is currently producing just under 50% of its electricity from gas. (30% from renewable)
Best gas turbines in the world can achieve 60% or so efficiency but the ones UK utilises hover around the 50% mark. View attachment 50431
Diesel engines are in fact generally slightly more efficient than Gas Turbines. Modern ones vary between 40 and 60%.(quite an improvement on the original 23 % or so)
So the argument using electrical vehicles increases overall efficiency is wrong.
When will UK ever be using 100% green electricity??
The ever-improving efficiency of the diesel engine - International Council on Clean Transportation
A strong case can be made that the pending U.S. decision on HDV engines standards should push the technology envelope as hard as is feasible based on emerging efficiency technologies.
View attachment 50432
Vehicle exhausts are prematurely killing thousands in cities, EVs eliminate that.
Pollution at power stations is mostly far from cities and can be dealt with separately anyway.
And where you say 50% of electricity comes from gas, I say 50% doesn't and it's rapidly moving my way.
And what about all the new e-car charging stations being built roofed over with solar panels and sometime even with fields behind covered with panels. It all contributes and is zero carbon.
Diesel will hang on for long time, helped by improvements, but its current decline will continue indefinitely.
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you know these big heave evs need massive brakes that pollute so the next thing will be carbon disc brakes at 10k each.
they dont want the middle class to own cars and are priced out of there range on purpose they dont even want you to leave your house and just order there junk and eat there corporate crap for profit.
and it is all done to save the planet mind and make a nice profit and have total control over there slaves/ profit units as the end result.
they want our data and our money as well and tracked 247 365 days a year and drive evs limited to 20mph that cost 100k.
50 trillion dollars for carbon zero and how much will it lower temps, dont know depends on china lmfao.
yet if these so called corporations cared about the planet other than profit then why has bosch made a new smart frame batt that wont work with my now obsolete motor and expect me to throw it in the cannel and go get a new one for 10k they can feck off ill get a horse and let it shite all over the road
they dont want the middle class to own cars and are priced out of there range on purpose they dont even want you to leave your house and just order there junk and eat there corporate crap for profit.
and it is all done to save the planet mind and make a nice profit and have total control over there slaves/ profit units as the end result.
they want our data and our money as well and tracked 247 365 days a year and drive evs limited to 20mph that cost 100k.
50 trillion dollars for carbon zero and how much will it lower temps, dont know depends on china lmfao.
yet if these so called corporations cared about the planet other than profit then why has bosch made a new smart frame batt that wont work with my now obsolete motor and expect me to throw it in the cannel and go get a new one for 10k they can feck off ill get a horse and let it shite all over the road