Brexit, for once some facts.

oldgroaner

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It wont with a Tory government.

Flecc
I wasn't criticizing Ken Livingstone, merely expressing opinion people ( rightly or wrongly) will not vote for anyone seen as radical or extreme. You know better than most its not always reality folk are put off by (or attracted to) its how they are perceived.
The labour movement has lost direction, doesn't know wether its tory light was with Blair, extreme left as with Livingstone or tolerant left as with Corbyn. Yes, the public have been misled,just as they have always been. Look how Scargil will be remembered... But on top of all that the labour movement is in complete disarray...people believe what they want to believe. The voting public would never support anything resembling extreme left. That's why Corbyn must moderate and give in on some issues. He wont, so he won't get in. Like I,ve said so many times we now have a one party democracy, and that is a way bigger issue than Brexit.
But don't moan at such as me...have a go at Corbyn, Blair and Abbot. They might be victims of right wing press but they make it easy for them and on top of that adopt policies that make them unelectable for mass majority of voters.
It won't with a labour government either outside the EU
 
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flecc

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It wont with a Tory government.

Flecc
I wasn't criticizing Ken Livingstone, merely expressing opinion people ( rightly or wrongly) will not vote for anyone seen as radical or extreme.

The labour movement has lost direction, doesn't know wether its tory light was with Blair, extreme left as with Livingstone or tolerant left as with Corbyn.
But as highlighted you've just done it again, posting the opposite. Ken Livingstone was never extreme left, only the smears and lies implied that. Jeremy Corbyn's policies though not extreme are more to the left than Ken's ever were, and the Labour movement knows that to be true.

Labour hasn't lost direction, only the lies and smears pretending that. It's very clear that on social policy Jeremy Corbyn simply wishes to continue on the lines of the old Clement Attlee government, and no-one today thinks that was unacceptably extreme. Corbyn couples that with a strong leaning towards the avoidance of war in favour of diplomacy, which in view of the disastrous tory policies in this respect is wholely commendable.
..
 
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Woosh

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Labour hasn't lost direction, only the lies and smears pretending that.
Labour lack of high class salesmen.
Politics is about selling the future. Having good ideas is only a start, you've got to sell it convincingly.
That's where Mr Corbyn, flanked on the left by Diane Abbott and on the right by John McDonnell, is far from the dream team.
 

flecc

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Politics is about selling the future. Having good ideas is only a start, you've got to sell it convincingly.
But that's made almost impossibly difficult when the opposition and the bulk of the media propagate the same lies against them.

It's one against the world.
.
 
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Woosh

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But that's made almost impossibly difficult when the opposition and the bulk of the media propagate the same lies against them.

It's one against the world.
.
the media (OK, the Murdoch media) seems to be getting the cancellation of Leveson 2 if the tories are returned to power. That's is a big payback.
Labour should have promised the same, and may be, just may be, the media wouldn't be so negative toward him.
 
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oldgroaner

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the media (OK, the Murdoch media) seems to be getting the cancellation of Leveson 2 if the tories are returned to power. That's is a big payback.
Labour should have promised the same, and may be, just may be, the media wouldn't be so negative toward him.
As I said before they should me made to be Politically Neutral by publishing always ALL sides views, not be permitted to be purveyors of bought and paid for False Truths
 
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oldgroaner

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Here we go again
The Telegraph
"
MI5 opened file on Jeremy Corbyn amid concerns over his IRA links

MI5 opened a file on Jeremy Corbyn amid concerns over his links to the IRA, the Telegraph has discovered.

Will this never end? what dirty tricks have they left?

The same Gargage appeared in the Express and oddly (or is it) comments from readers were unavailable in both Right wing rags.
 
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Woosh

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As I said before they should me made to be Politically Neutral by publishing always ALL sides views, not be permitted to be purveyors of bought and paid for False Truths
you can't have freedom of speech if you have to say what the law wants you to say.
 

oldgroaner

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Well done Zlatan, this is what your Brexit vote has bought

"The Conservatives will also seek to regulate the kind of news that is posted online and how companies are paid for it. If elected, Theresa May will "take steps to protect the reliability and objectivity of information that is essential to our democracy" – and crack down on Facebook and Google to ensure that news companies get enough advertising money.

Aren't you pleased with the Bright free future "Getting back Sovereignty" is bringing?
Regulated News; the new name for Fascist Propaganda
 
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Woosh

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Here we go again
The Telegraph
"
MI5 opened file on Jeremy Corbyn amid concerns over his IRA links

MI5 opened a file on Jeremy Corbyn amid concerns over his links to the IRA, the Telegraph has discovered.

Will this never end? what dirty tricks have they left?

The same Gargage appeared in the Express and oddly (or is it) comments from readers were unavailable in both Right wing rags.
oddly, I think this sort of mud slinging does Mr Corbyn no harm.
 
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oldgroaner

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you can't have freedom of speech if you have to say what the law wants you to say.
Where did what I say meant that? it is a requirement to show all points of view, these are NEWSPAPERS not propaganda sheets remember
And in any case the Conservatives are ditching free speech, see my latest post.
They will tell the press what to publish as "Appropriate News"
My intention was far more democratic than that.
 
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Woosh

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Where did what I say meant that? it is a requirement to show all points of view, these are NEWSPAPERS not propaganda sheets remember
And in any case the Conservatives are ditching free speech, see my latest post.
They will tell the press what to publish as "Appropriate News"
My intention was far more democratic than that.
precisely. You can sue newspapers but you can't censure them.
Nobody censures you.
Newspapers are the proof of our freedom of expression, one of our fundamental HR.
 
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oldgroaner

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precisely. You can sue newspapers but you can't censure them.
Nobody censures you.
Newspapers are the proof of our freedom of expression, one of our fundamental HR.
You haven't heard of a"D" notice then?
And I believe you mean censor

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 
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Woosh

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yes, I do. You can challenge the D notice in Court.
 

anotherkiwi

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As for TM controlling internet...about time...its a disgrace but she has no chance. It will win her,some support though.
The internet isn't the problem, laws governing the internet aren't the problem (they already exist), people doing things they shouldn't be doing are the problem. How do you pay your taxes, pay your electricity and phone bills, monitor and use your bank account, contact social security, contact the employment agency, buy stuff... ad nauseam? Here it is all on the internet and very soon ONLY on the internet. And you want your government to have one click access to all your stuff? Brave chap! The internet isn't a disgrace, people are. The internet is a rich and interesting tool and yet you (and TM) keep going on about the sleazy fringe. What have you both got to hide? Or you haven't been there but have read in a certain press about all the bad things that go on? Very trustworthy the press when it comes to talking about the internet, a competing media... Very honest your press. World renowned for its honesty...

There is so much cool and interesting stuff on the internet I don't have enough time to go looking for sleaze, I don't know how you manage...

Disclaimer: The internet was my place of work from 1994 (my first clients were an English university and a Scottish one) till 2012. I still build a site or two now and then because I can... So I happen to know a little bit about the internet and the law. In France we have the CNIL which is very picky about what you can and can't do, protecting ordinary citizens and their data.
 

tillson

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And by the way , another and important reason Labour is doing so poorly is fact country is very alienated against radicals; extremes of any kind; fundamentalists.
May I add to that working people don't really connect with millionaire barristers masquerading as representatives of the workers and talking, "faux street" in a pathetic attempt find non-existent common ground. What a bunch of...(very unpleasant word removed).

Anybody know the odds for a record low turn out at next month's election?
 
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