Fooled in purchasing Wisper 905SE Sport old model

[vassilis]

Hi everybody,
I am a new member of the forum, although I have been reading it for many weeks while searching which e-bike would suit me best.

A Wisper dealer in the UK made me an offer to buy a 905 SE Sport (new and unused) at a discounted price (999 pounds plus 99 pounds shipping to Greece). Given the good critics here and the savings of around 400 pounds from the price the bike is originally being advertised, I ordered it.

I received it a couple of days ago, only to find out that it was the old model, meaning it does not have a Front connection box, Hi Lo switch, Conical guard and connector, Folding keys, Interchangeable battery, Cable management system in the frame and Riser handle bars.

The dealer couldn't but confirm this, stating that this was an expo bike and was purchased by him in February 2009, so this could not be a 2009 model as these arrived in the UK in April 2009.

I think you can understand my frustration about finding out that my newly purchased bike is not the latest (and improved model).

I am still considering my options here, especially since returning the bike would cost me an additional 100 pounds. I have also written to Wisper bikes about this, they did not seem to care too much though.

Douglas responded to me, only to say that he needs more details (?) and that if I fill in the warranty registration form online I will not have any problem with spare parts in the future. I responded by asking what more details he could possibly want to help me out; two days later he has not written back (although I reckon this to be a serious issue for Wisper's reputation) and found out today that the office is closed until January 4th.

That's it then. Was tricked by a dealer (he only offered to send me a LED front light along with the missing toolkit), no help whatsoever from the manufacturer (Wisper) and need to decide what to do.

Your help is therefore invaluable for me. Especially those of you owning the old model (like me). Do you consider the changes effected in the 2009 model critical so that it is best to return the bike back (under the Distance Selling Regulations) and get the latest one or not (in which case I should be happy for getting such a big discount)?

 

[Scatty]

Name & shame them then mybe theyll take action

 

[Alex728]

Wispers are indexed on the frame number, found on the front bit of the frame the fork goes into, this may be what Wisper are looking for to ascertain the age of the bike (and also confirm its a real Wisper and not a clone).

The issue here is whether this model was sold as a 2008 or 2009 model. If it was a 2008 model sold at a discount this should have been made clear by the dealer.

I have a 2009 model (one of the first going by the date on the tag) and I think the differences are

- front connection box (not on 2008 model)
- plastic chainguard
- Alex rims on the wheels
- no hub dynamo (although the 2009 manual refers to one)
- no green button as standard (you have to ask for them)

I think though that some later 2008 models may have have improved bits on them during the transition period, and the electrics are pretty much the same. There are a few people on here with '08 models.

To be fair Wisper are usually good at sorting out problems, although the extended absence over the holiday period does seem disappointing (especially as most e-bikers seem to cycle as regularly in winter as in Summer!)

 

[Straylight]

Curious, my '08 905se City has a FCB and came with a plastic chainguard,along with the hub dynamo. It was actualy bought in Feb '09 just before the model was updated. So maybe this bike is from early-mid '08, possibly earlier.

Vassilis, I'd furnish Wisper with all the infomation you have, particularly the frame and battery numbers, as they'll be able to tell you when it was made & more importantly how old the battery is (considering the replacement cost). This will give you more of a basis for your decision.

 

[Mussels]

I own the 08 model and have had a loan of an 09 bike so have experienced the differences. There's not much between them really.
The brakes were rubbish on the 08 model but Wisper will probably send you the correct bits FOC.
The connection box doesn't make much difference as you will almost never touch it, the exception to this will be replacing the brake leads.
The folding key is helpful, I have a low tech bent key instead.

Your problem is with the retailer so don't get upset with Wisper as they will usually try and help.
You didn't get much of a discount considering the price was £1200 originally.

 

[Alex728]

Curious, my '08 905se City has a FCB and came with a plastic chainguard,along with the hub dynamo. It was actualy bought in Feb '09 just before the model was updated. So maybe this bike is from early-mid '08, possibly earlier.

did you get a tag on yours? mine had one showing serial number and model as well as date of manufacture as well as both QC checks...

 

[Straylight]

No, no tag on mine, may be another change for the '09 model. Interesting that Mussels' key is non folding, as mine is - I probably got one of the last '08 spec bikes made, so they were probably phasing in the changes. I think it's a pity they dropped the dynamo, as it's a godsend - particularly when the batteries start to run out in my seccond front light, and it really doesn't create that much drag on the wheel.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Old Bike

Hi Vassilis

Sorry to read about the problem.

" am still considering my options here, especially since returning the bike would cost me an additional 100 pounds. I have also written to Wisper bikes about this, they did not seem to care too much though.

Douglas responded to me, only to say that he needs more details (?) and that if I fill in the warranty registration form online I will not have any problem with spare parts in the future. I responded by asking what more details he could possibly want to help me out; two days later he has not written back (although I reckon this to be a serious issue for Wisper's reputation) and found out today that the office is closed until January 4th."

I think the details Douglas is asking for is whom you bought the bike from. I have not spoken to him about this as he is in New York at the moment, but I can understand that he may be a little perplexed as to why you seem to be so upset. Did the dealer sold the bike to you as an old model? Did he explain why he was giving such a huge discount? Even with an 2008 model £999.00 is a steal, you did very well. Douglas will have asked you to fill in the warrantee so we can ascertain whether or not the bike is a real Wisper and to find out the manufacture date. He has also explained that you have a full warrantee.

Is the bike playing up in any way or is the main problem that you have an older bike?

I can assure you we are very interested in any problem associated with a Wisper but on the face of it there does not seem to be a huge problem here.

I will be in my office until 24th December and back on the 27th, it is only the warehouse, service and sales office that are closed.

Best regards David

 

[Stumpi]

Looks to me like you have a great bike at a good price. OK its not the latest model but the differences seem to be quite small. Is it worth getting all worked up over life's too short IMO. Charge it up and get out there riding the thing and enjoying yourself

Stumpi

 

[Scatty]

Hope this will be sorted out. Sounds like a matter for the B.E.B.A.

 

[vassilis]

Many thanks guys for your assistance in this.

Just to sort things out: I am not upset with Wisper at all. After all one of the reasons I chose a Wisper bike was their after sales support. It is just that Douglas did not get proactive and ask me exactly what information he would require in order to assist and then the next day the office closed for Christmas. Anyway I am sure they will help.

Now in the essence of the problem, I am copying the email I received from the Wisper dealer, after initially enquiring about an Oxygen bike:

"Thank for your enquiry. Currently we have no Oxygen Emates available but we at the same price we could offer you Wisper 905se Sport with rear luggage rack and 36V 14Ah battery. The promotional price is £999 for the bike which normally costs £1449. The bike is new and never been used. The shipping cost to Greece would be £99 via UPS (2-5 working days). For more information about Wisper 905 please see the link: Wisper 905se Sport If you have any more questions please do not hesitate to contact us.[/I]"

As you can see the dealer is Electric Bike Shed and yes I was obviously offered a 2009 bike, as the initial price quoted was £1449 and the link to their website shows the 2009 model. The 2008 model was at least £200 less.

After receiving the bike and complaining about all this, I received this responce:

"The bike you received we have bought in the February 2009. The first stocks of the 2009 models have been available from April 09 and the manual indeed shows the 1 of February 2009 because the production of the 2009 bikes has started in January 09 and I mentioned the first models available in the UK were in April 09. During the year the bike was our Expo bike and not being in use. In terms of performance there is no difference whatsoever to the bike, the battery is the same battery 36V 14Ah and it's just a case that has been changed....."

I hope you understand my frustration.

I haven't been able to locate the reg. no. on the frame (probably my mistake), the battery itself has no number on it other than the indication 36V 14A Lithium Pack. The box has the following indications, although this may very well be from another bike:
Battery no.: 0388
Frame no.: 181306645
PO NO: 8004-35
C/NO: 47

My greatest worry on the bike is the lack of the conical guard keeping the controller box dry and protecting the cables. Right now it seems to me like the controler box will get all wet with 5-minute ride with unknown results and it is also very exposed to all kind of dirt, rocks etc. Also the Hi Lo switch is quite useful.

I am posting below some pictures in case David may get something out of this (as Straylight correctly pointed out determining the age of the battery is important as the replacement cost is high).

At the end of the day, I will probably keep the bike as the fuss of returning it back and claiming back the money is probably not worth the time (for me at least).

 

[vassilis]

Three more pictures as the forum only allows a maximum of four pictures per post.

 

[FatMog]

Whatever the rights or wrongs of the initial sale, the bike in those photos is filthy - it's obviously been ridden. Doesn't this mean that vassilis has de facto accepted the bike? I can't imagine any retailer would accept it back in that state, surely he should have left it in 'as new' condition as soon as he realised it wasn't the model he wanted?

 

[vassilis]

I followed Stumpi's advice eventually. I will however look into this as much as I can with Wisper's assistance to establish whether there are more misrepresentations.

 

[rustic]

The retailer should have made it clear to you that he was selling old stock, however, whether you've bought an 08 or an 09 model £999 sounds a very good price for an unused Wisper - I doubt you could have bought a second hand model with a well used battery for much less than that.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Old stock

Hi Vassilis

I will check on the date of the bike using the details you have sent, it is a 2008 Wisper and there have been a lot of changes since this bike was produced. However the motor is the same and the battery although it has the older case and connections has the latest cells.

We are in the final stages of opening a main dealer in Athens who will be able to help you with the bike and if you do have any warrantee issues.

I will find out whether the controller will take a hi lo switch, if it will I would be pleased to send one to you FOC. I would also be pleased to supply you with the conical cover for the bottom of the controller box, you would have to drill and tap four holes in the frame to accept the bolts.

As Stumpi and Rustic say you do have a good bike although an older model and you have paid a vaery realistic price.

I hope this hasn't spoiled your Wisper experience, if I can be of any help at all you can email me miall@aol.com or use the telephone number at the bottom of this page.

Best regards

David

 

[vassilis]

The news about the dealership in Athens is fantastic (please email me the contact details when finalized vassilis@kyriakou.org). Besides warranty issues that I hope will not be required, there will be an expert to service it whenever required.

Thank you for your assistance, this is one of the reasons I chose a Wisper.

The bike is already with my local bike shop to check the front wheel - as I wasn't provided with the original toolkit initially did not have a spanner - the front brake and the chain tension.

I would however like to take this as far as possible with the dealer, with your help in providing me the necessary information. You may want to have a chat with them as well. BTW I checked the installation manual which refers to the 2008 model and I was not also provided with the cycle computer and rear light (have already purchased a Sigma computer and Cateye rear light).

 

[Mussels]

Many thanks guys for your assistance in this.

Just to sort things out: I am not upset with Wisper at all. After all one of the reasons I chose a Wisper bike was their after sales support. It is just that Douglas did not get proactive and ask me exactly what information he would require in order to assist and then the next day the office closed for Christmas. Anyway I am sure they will help.

Now in the essence of the problem, I am copying the email I received from the Wisper dealer, after initially enquiring about an Oxygen bike:

"Thank for your enquiry. Currently we have no Oxygen Emates available but we at the same price we could offer you Wisper 905se Sport with rear luggage rack and 36V 14Ah battery. The promotional price is £999 for the bike which normally costs £1449. The bike is new and never been used. The shipping cost to Greece would be £99 via UPS (2-5 working days). For more information about Wisper 905 please see the link: Wisper 905se Sport If you have any more questions please do not hesitate to contact us.[/I]"

As you can see the dealer is Electric Bike Shed and yes I was obviously offered a 2009 bike, as the initial price quoted was £1449 and the link to their website shows the 2009 model. The 2008 model was at least £200 less.

After receiving the bike and complaining about all this, I received this responce:

"The bike you received we have bought in the February 2009. The first stocks of the 2009 models have been available from April 09 and the manual indeed shows the 1 of February 2009 because the production of the 2009 bikes has started in January 09 and I mentioned the first models available in the UK were in April 09. During the year the bike was our Expo bike and not being in use. In terms of performance there is no difference whatsoever to the bike, the battery is the same battery 36V 14Ah and it's just a case that has been changed....."

I hope you understand my frustration.

I haven't been able to locate the reg. no. on the frame (probably my mistake), the battery itself has no number on it other than the indication 36V 14A Lithium Pack. The box has the following indications, although this may very well be from another bike:
Battery no.: 0388
Frame no.: 181306645
PO NO: 8004-35
C/NO: 47

My greatest worry on the bike is the lack of the conical guard keeping the controller box dry and protecting the cables. Right now it seems to me like the controler box will get all wet with 5-minute ride with unknown results and it is also very exposed to all kind of dirt, rocks etc. Also the Hi Lo switch is quite useful.

I am posting below some pictures in case David may get something out of this (as Straylight correctly pointed out determining the age of the battery is important as the replacement cost is high).

At the end of the day, I will probably keep the bike as the fuss of returning it back and claiming back the money is probably not worth the time (for me at least).

I think the email is misleading as that model wasn't sold at that price, I'm sure the rrp was £1250.
I have the same frame and controller as you and I have ridden thousands of miles through all weathers without any problems* with water or dirt in the electrics, maybe cross country through deep water will be a problem but any electric bike will suffer there.

*Once in heavy rain the LEDs in the throttle didn't display properly but it's only happened once despite being out in heavy rain again.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Bike Details

Hi Vassilis

FYI

The details from the carton mean the bike was built in early 2009 and delivered to the UK in May, so I would conclude the carton is from a later bike.

I need the frame number which is found under the main bearing housing, the battery serial number would also help.

All the best David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Wisper bike

Hi again Vassilis

After reviewing these images in detail we are 99% certain this is in fact an early (May) 2007 bike.

We will be taking this up with the dealer responsible in the new year.

In the mean time, if there is anything we can do to help, please drop me a line.

All the best

David