So once again we read of a school massacre, this time in Newtown Connecticut. Twenty seven children murdered at random by a nutter with a gun. America bears a high price for its "Right to bear Arms".
Murder of the Innocents.
- Thread starter neptune
- Start date
Yes Neptune, yet incredibly they will continue to support that right. It's difficult to get a handle on the American psyche sometimes.
Indalo
That happened not so long ago Jazper but on that occasion, the lady didn't die but miraculously survived the shooting. It changed nothing! What can one say?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12143774
Indalo
Hopefully, for America, this tragedy is the 'straw that breaks the Camels back' and some gun control will be forth coming.
Come Senators, Congressmen, please heed the call,
Don`t stand in the doorway Don`t block up the hall.
For he who gets hurt will be he who has stalled,
There`s a battle outside and it`s ragin`.
It`ll soon shake your windows and rattle your walls,
Cause the times they are a-changin.
[Bob Dylan]
We also have to take into account that if guns are made illegal, then only criminals will have guns, so it is a problem that allows no easy solution. Let us be thankful that such incidents are much rarer in the UK.
It's an admirable hope Smudger but hang on......we have gun control yet gun crime is still rife in the UK. In fact, things have got worse here; so bad that even lots of police officers are now carrying firearms! It wasn't like that when I was lad!
Indalo
US governments are hostage to their electorate with this issue and I cannot see their law changing. Owning a gun is fundamental to the American citizen's right to freedom and the defence of that right, even against their own government if necessary.
This right is so deeply embedded that it's suicidal for either party to prevent gun possession. All they ever do is add minor control measures that don't too greatly inconvenience or obstruct.
There are advantages for the State of course, in particular the widespread skill with a large range of weapons, including machine ones, makes it easy to rapidly enlarge their army in times of conflict. It also simplifies police recruitment by reducing the training necessary. Notwithstanding these tragedies, most US citizens are very responsible in their ownership and use of firearms so are military and police ready for safe firearm use.
This right is so deeply embedded that it's suicidal for either party to prevent gun possession. All they ever do is add minor control measures that don't too greatly inconvenience or obstruct.
There are advantages for the State of course, in particular the widespread skill with a large range of weapons, including machine ones, makes it easy to rapidly enlarge their army in times of conflict. It also simplifies police recruitment by reducing the training necessary. Notwithstanding these tragedies, most US citizens are very responsible in their ownership and use of firearms so are military and police ready for safe firearm use.
The thing is that the USA is a big country with dangerous animals.
I was considering using a canoe to do the 300 miles of the Everglades challenge in Florida.
They warn you that you will probably encounter Whales, sharks, manatees, alligators, crocodiles, Burmese pythons, Bears, all of Florida's 6 venemous snakes besides sub tropical storms!
I enquired about a Florida gun licence. You have to do a course and be certified safe. In any case, as a non US citizen, I couldn't have a permit.
If you go to Spitzbergen, you are required by law to carry a gun outside of the townships because of the danger from Polar Bears. It is illegal to shoot a bear, so you can only fire in extremis. generally banging off a shot gun or exploding firework will frighten the bear off.
I was considering using a canoe to do the 300 miles of the Everglades challenge in Florida.
They warn you that you will probably encounter Whales, sharks, manatees, alligators, crocodiles, Burmese pythons, Bears, all of Florida's 6 venemous snakes besides sub tropical storms!
I enquired about a Florida gun licence. You have to do a course and be certified safe. In any case, as a non US citizen, I couldn't have a permit.
If you go to Spitzbergen, you are required by law to carry a gun outside of the townships because of the danger from Polar Bears. It is illegal to shoot a bear, so you can only fire in extremis. generally banging off a shot gun or exploding firework will frighten the bear off.
Indeed, and Florida also has the cougar (mountain lion, puma etc), the only eastern US state to still have them.
President Obama seems determined to enter the minefield of gun control which no doubt will be a mammoth task to get it passed through Congress, and the vested interests that seem to control it.
If such changes are made, I expect they will be so watered down to placate the arms manufacturing interests, and the wild-west psyche that seems to obsess large numbers of Americans, and have no effect on future tragedies. So the only other solution would be to arm the Teachers to fight back against such lunatics
If such changes are made, I expect they will be so watered down to placate the arms manufacturing interests, and the wild-west psyche that seems to obsess large numbers of Americans, and have no effect on future tragedies. So the only other solution would be to arm the Teachers to fight back against such lunatics
What is surprising is that more and more states are issuing permits to allow the carrying of concealed weapons.
I think the rules should go round the other way and make it illegal to carry a concealed weapon ~ a weapon should be carried in a visible manner.
I think the rules should go round the other way and make it illegal to carry a concealed weapon ~ a weapon should be carried in a visible manner.
These are difficult issues, there's always a sound contrary argument to be made. For example, licencing concealed weapons can reduce crime, for the criminally intent can never know what they might suddenly find themselves up against if they choose to attack an innocent person. It could be quite an effective deterrent to committing many types of crime.
Difficult indeed! Things have probably changed but I can remember driving across the US and my colleague removing his automatic pistol from the glovebox of the car while we were driving and placing it in a clip on top of the dashboard. I said, "Expecting trouble, are we?" to which he replied, "Nope, we're coming up to the state line and the laws are different."
Evidently, at that time, having a weapon concealed in a vehicle was permissible and mandatory, if carried, in one state whereas in a neighbouring state, any weapon carried within a vehicle had to be conspicuously displayed otherwise a felony was committed. The law can be unfathomable in some areas of the US, especially when Federal law does not necessarily override individual state law. I'm sure they have made changes in the interest of standardisation over the years but differences between states in many matters can be tricky and like here, ignorance of the law is no excuse.
I'm sure we're all familiar with those American movies depicting rednecks with their pick-up trucks, replete with bull horns and gun rack. It's not make-believe; that still goes on though I'm not sure which states allow rifles and shotguns to be carried legally in vehicles these days.
Indalo
Even in matters that affect virtually everyone. The age of consent in US states varies between 14 and 18 years, so plenty of opportunities to come unstuck on that for the young. A four year discrepancy in a cross border relationship could lead to a long jail sentence.
Many US city schools do have a permanent police officer present, armed of course as usual, and they are often very pro-active with pupil searches for weapons, drugs etc.
I've never heard of any one of those attacked by a rampaging gunman, so perhaps the policy makes sense.
Whilst it seems sensible to require weapons to be on view, and many States insist upon it, others including the UK take the view that it is too easy for the weapon to be snatched off a person by a criminal.
The UK goes further and requires the weapon to be in a bag or box, securely fastened.
I don't know what the answer is. The UK began gun control in 1920, probably an aftermath of everybody being armed in the War. (Soldiers on leave took their rifles with them) and over the years, slowly tightened them.
Perhaps this would work in the USA?
The UK goes further and requires the weapon to be in a bag or box, securely fastened.
I don't know what the answer is. The UK began gun control in 1920, probably an aftermath of everybody being armed in the War. (Soldiers on leave took their rifles with them) and over the years, slowly tightened them.
Perhaps this would work in the USA?