Ukip

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,867
30,415
Lower taxes, less overcrowding, and continual drain on resources like the NHS etc.
Without immigration we'd have a much older average age so more proportional drain on the NHS.

And overcrowding hasn't been mainly due to immigration, we still have plenty of space but don't occupy it. The overcrowding has resulted from the mass migration from the country into towns and cities as agriculture and the utilisation of the countryside continues to change. The 500 acre farm that was once run by 40 or more people is now run by the farmer alone. That doesn't just mean only the remainder migrating to towns, but also all those accompanying them, wives, children, those servicing them all such as in village shops, post offices, schools and pubs which have now largely disappeared.
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jazper53

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 20, 2012
890
18
Brighton
The 500 acre farm that was once run by 40 or more people is now run by the farmer alone.
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Don't forget the gangs of illegal immigrants that pick his fruit, veg etc for slave wages
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
The thread was in The Charging Post though Dave:

Forum: The Charging Post

A place to recharge your batteries, meet new friends and talk about things not specifically related to electric bikes.
Bad ettiquette to bring up matters of politics and religion except in direct relation to electric bikes.
 

neptune

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 30, 2012
1,743
353
Boston lincs
As you all know, Lincolnshire has always been a back water. My father, for instance only went out of Lincolnshire once in his life. So all this migration into Boston has been a massive culture shock. I do not see myself as racist. My problem is that we have lost the essential "Englishness" of the place. We had a culture here of good manners, as in "after you sir" and "ladies first". That has all gone, and been replaced by every man for himself, and survival of the fittest. Every time a shop closes, it re opens as a shop with a foreign name selling foreign foods and alcohol. Every park bench, even at 7 oclock in the morning, seems to be occupied by immigrants with cans of beer in their hands. The empty cans are just thrown on the ground. The local councils answer is to remove park benches. Public urination and spitting and vomiting pass for acceptable behavior.
I suppose I should follow official advice, and "enjoy the enrichment of my culture".
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,867
30,415
Don't forget the gangs of illegal immigrants that pick his fruit, veg etc for slave wages
Not relevant to the permanent staffing of farms past and present, temporary labour has always been added for picking seasons.
 

tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,249
3,197
Every time a shop closes, it re opens as a shop with a foreign name selling foreign foods and alcohol.
That's happend here, where I live. The local flower shop closed down and re-opened as a Polish Shop. Strangely, there is not a single tin of polish to be seen. The place is full of sausages with strange sounding names.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,867
30,415
As you all know, Lincolnshire has always been a back water. My father, for instance only went out of Lincolnshire once in his life. So all this migration into Boston has been a massive culture shock. I do not see myself as racist. My problem is that we have lost the essential "Englishness" of the place. We had a culture here of good manners, as in "after you sir" and "ladies first". That has all gone, and been replaced by every man for himself, and survival of the fittest. Every time a shop closes, it re opens as a shop with a foreign name selling foreign foods and alcohol. Every park bench, even at 7 oclock in the morning, seems to be occupied by immigrants with cans of beer in their hands. The empty cans are just thrown on the ground. The local councils answer is to remove park benches. Public urination and spitting and vomiting pass for acceptable behavior.
I suppose I should follow official advice, and "enjoy the enrichment of my culture".
The decisions that brought about what isn't liked date back hundreds of years, i.e. countries like ours deciding to invade others around the world and later the inventions of modern sea and air transport. So there's been plenty of warning from before we were all born and we can't just opt out of what we created in the first place. We were instrumental in making it one world and the clock can't be turned back.

Switzerland mentioned before as a desirable example amuses me, wholly populated by the peoples of three nations using four languages with many residents from other parts of the world. They are very multicultural.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,867
30,415
That's happend here, where I live. The local flower shop closed down and re-opened as a Polish Shop. Strangely, there is not a single tin of polish to be seen. The place is full of sausages with strange sounding names.
I doubt Poland invaded the flower shop. No doubt it closed because all the English people didn't use it enough. Best be thankful that immigrants have kept it as a viable retail outlet instead of it being empty and creating an undesirable unwanted image to that area, leading to it's decline.
 

timidtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 19, 2009
757
175
Cheshire
GambiaGOES.blogspot.com
Mumbling as a lapsed Marxist and undecided Atheist I can't see what all this fuss about immigrants is, erm, about. My family is a mixture of Anglo-Saxon, French, Dutch and Indian. Even worse, my parents had a mixed marriage - dad was Lancastrian and mum was Cestrian. Most of my friends are African/Muslim, others are Quaker or lapsed Catholics. We're still one of the richest nations on the planet - most of us know where we'll sleep tomorrow night, have a bit of cash in our pockets and have received some sort of education. If we're ill the doctor checks our pulse, not our credit card. We even have some semblance of democracy, though how this lot came to power goodness only knows. Rant ove. I'll ask nurse if there's any cake left ... IO could go on about bike batteries if asked? No? Cake it is then!
 

funkylyn

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 22, 2011
3,172
27
South Shields, Tyne & Wear
I dont know....it doesnt matter what the topic is you are always looking for that nurse.....mind you.... cake is better than the usual medicine.....bit of moist carrot cake will do me nicely thankyou :D :D

Lynda :)
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,867
30,415
Likewise Tom, I'm from the immediate past an Anglo/Scot Italian with French branches of the family and with recent marrying in of Jewish faith and West Indian background people.
 

Ptarmigan

Pedelecer
Oct 19, 2012
67
0
Does anyone know if UKIP's views are incompatible with forum membership?
Thought I better check.
Hahaa, you are trying to 'foster' a disputation ?:) ,
beware this thread may need to be 'taken into care' :) :)

It is a libertarian, non-racist party seeking Britain's withdrawal from the European Union
If that is all they are then I would vote for them, sadly they pretend to be a mainstream political party with a prospect, so they feel the need to have policies on all other aspects of our society and quite frankly they are totally bonkers in many of those other social interactions !

My advice to them would be - stick to one policy, if elected to then hold a referendum on EU membership, and to then resign and force a general election shortly after.
The result of that referendum would then force the hand of any other political party to vow to uphold the referendum result.
UKIP might not be the eventual party in power (phew! 5 years of them?! gosh, no way) but they would most likely achieve their desire - withdraw from the EU !!

On a similar theme -
I think England should hold a referendum on independence from the UK,
we should do this before Scotland has its ref.
that way it would leave Scotland and NI holding the baby :) !
 
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timidtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 19, 2009
757
175
Cheshire
GambiaGOES.blogspot.com
Likewise Tom, I'm from the immediate past an Anglo/Scot Italian with French branches of the family and with recent marrying in of Jewish faith and West Indian background people.
Agree; years ago I entered into a debate with representatives of the B.N.P. who were advocating 'England for the English'. I asked them how they defined 'English' and offered as an example my mongrel pedigree. I think I failed the test!
Happy e-biking!
Tom
 

tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,249
3,197
I can't agree with any attempt to draw a parrallel with what is happening now and the historical imigration trends of this country which go back hundreds of years. They are two completely different entities and there are no similarities.

Public services such as health care, education, justice, welfare and social services are currently stretched and working at a capacity way beyond their intended maximum. As a result of this, these organisations are unable to provide the level service which people have a right to expect. We are also facing the prospect of not having sufficient energy for the population in the very near future. The simple reason for this is that there are too many people living here, nothing else. The population of the country is expanding at a dangerous and unsustainable rate. Our present imigration policy, if there actually is one, can only serve to hasten the degradation of our services and infrastructure.

The migrant workers that I have come across seem to have a fantastic work ethic and quite frankly shame many of the indigenous population with their attitude towards work. Another phrase which is often quoted, "migrant workers do the jobs which British workers don't want to do." This is very true and not only that, many do it with enthusiasm. But what an appalling state of affairs this is. Think about it. Importing foreign human beings to do the jobs which we, the indigenous population, consider demeaning or beneath us is awful and will breed a deep rooted, seething resentment. It will come back to haunt us. We are doing no one any favours here.

The usual retort to silence people who voice these opinions is to either brand them a racist or to point out the fact that their ancestors are probably immigrants. Both are nonsense and highlight the fact that there is no logical counter argument to the fact that our present imigration free for all is at best, a very bad thing for all concerned or at worst a latent horror.
 

GaRRy

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 18, 2012
1,019
3
Tamworth
Define a immigrant ? or to be more preicse which immigrants do we draw the line at ? Also do we include descendants or just the immigrant ?. If we go back far enough there would be no one left at all :D

This country has always thrived by making use of immigrants. whats changed now to make us think this is no longer a good idea (Actually a dumb question as we have never liked them even when we need them).
 

tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,249
3,197
Define a immigrant ? or to be more preicse which immigrants do we draw the line at ?
Any more entering the country after a near future date ( a line in the sand if you like). It's too late and it would be unfair to require anyone who has already entered the country legally to leave now.
 

funkylyn

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 22, 2011
3,172
27
South Shields, Tyne & Wear
I can't agree with any attempt to draw a parrallel with what is happening now and the historical imigration trends of this country which go back hundreds of years. They are two completely different entities and there are no similarities.

Public services such as health care, education, justice, welfare and social services are currently stretched and working at a capacity way beyond their intended maximum. As a result of this, these organisations are unable to provide the level service which people have a right to expect. We are also facing the prospect of not having sufficient energy for the population in the very near future. The simple reason for this is that there are too many people living here, nothing else. The population of the country is expanding at a dangerous and unsustainable rate. Our present imigration policy, if there actually is one, can only serve to hasten the degradation of our services and infrastructure.

The migrant workers that I have come across seem to have a fantastic work ethic and quite frankly shame many of the indigenous population with their attitude towards work. Another phrase which is often quoted, "migrant workers do the jobs which British workers don't want to do." This is very true and not only that, many do it with enthusiasm. But what an appalling state of affairs this is. Think about it. Importing foreign human beings to do the jobs which we, the indigenous population, consider demeaning or beneath us is awful and will breed a deep rooted, seething resentment. It will come back to haunt us. We are doing no one any favours here.

The usual retort to silence people who voice these opinions is to either brand them a racist or to point out the fact that their ancestors are probably immigrants. Both are nonsense and highlight the fact that there is no logical counter argument to the fact that our present imigration free for all is at best, a very bad thing for all concerned or at worst a latent horror.

Well, my mam and I (lol) are sat here agreeing with every word tillson......and the crux of the matter is as long as we pay benefits at the level which encourages the population of this country NOT to work this problem can only get worse.
I am very definitely NOT a rascist in any way, its nothing to do with rascism, the simple fact is that if more people who are already here, were forced to work there would be NO work available to encourage more immigrants to enter this country......along with, of course, not paying out benefits hand over fist to anyone who comes looking.
It is totally crazy to allow this to happen, we need a political party who are strong enough to put a stop to this before it gets any worse...this is crucial to the welfare of our country.

When I moved to Spain we had to prove that we had enough money in the bank to support ourselves if we were retiring or whilst looking for work if we were younger, before being allowed to stay there, also we had no rights to any benefits at all until we had been paying into the system for a certain amount of time.
If you cant afford to support yourselves why should any country allow anyone to enter and become a drain on their system......we are mad to allow it to happen

When are we going to wake up to this and when are we going to get a political party with the guts to change things whilst there is still time.

Lynda :)
 

jazper53

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 20, 2012
890
18
Brighton
Ukip maybe a one issue Party who's sole purpose is to remove Britain from the EU, its ambitions are to firstly force a referendum which has been denied by successive goverments, as they fear the possible outcome.
Clearily there is support within the Tory party and to a lesser extent within the labour party, unite those forces under one banner then there could be a new politcal force which i have no doubt Ukip would be part of, rather than become a sole ruling party. I hope one day that we can all have a vote on the matter and let the people decide, democracy would be the winner, irrespective of the outcome.
 

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