BT_E6010 Shimano Steps

[13Stitches]

Desparate help required.

I have a Cannondale Neo with the Shimano Steps system. It just stopped on me. No display. When the battery is off the bike you can press the on button and it shows a good charge. When on the charger it times out with the yellow charger LED blinking and the 2 outside LEDS of the battery also flashing (which indicates battery error). When I put the battery back on the bike nothing happens. Screen is dead, unable to switch on at the computer display or at the battery. Take the battery off the bike, I can switch on the battery, but it times out after about 15 seconds. I put the battery on the bike while the battery is "on" and again it just times out after 15 seconds. Took the battery apart and it seemed as though the heat fuse was blown. By-passed all the electronics on the pcb of the battery ie soldered a wire so there was a direct connection from battery to the plug. Confirmed that there was voltage (39volts) at the connection plug of the battery, plugged it back into the bike .... and still no go.

This seems to be quite a smart (or dumb) system. It has a bus system (rx and tx) between the charger and the battery so I assume also between the battery and the bike.

With the battery BMS bypassed turning the battery "on" is irrelevant. The bike will be "on" as soon as it is connected to the bike. My question is does anyone know if the bike will fire up if there is no communication from the battery or if perhaps if there is an error signal transmitted from the battery to the bike? ie will the bike work by suppling the required voltage directly to the bike or does the bike require the authenticated handshake from the battery toenable the bike to function?

I have been unable to find any info really on the Shimano steps system and how it operates other than the operaton and dealers assembly manuals.

I am not close to any dealer or techs and would like to isolate the issue through ilimination as not sure if I have more than one problem ie battery alone or battery and bike.

Perhaps someone has had a similar issue or perhaps offer a suggestions or a few links I could research.

Any help much appreciated.

 

[cyclebuddy]

Others may offer better advice than I can, but they're likely asleep at this hour!

Yes, it'll be CANbus. With fault LED's lit, you're snookered because AFAIK you can't replace just the BMS even if the cells are good. I'd replace the thermal fuse and see if the BMS powers up again because without that BMS the battery is scrap. It may spring into life or the fuse may blow again.

I'd think if it were a bike fault (eg: with the motor/comms/controller) you'd be getting an Error code on the display not fault LED's on the battery. With the BMS bypassed and no CANbus, you'd again likely just get an Error on the display showing that if it were expecting comms.

You really do need a dealer to plug your bike into their diagnostics laptop to be certain of where the fault lies.

 

[matthewslack]

There is no way to have this working with the PCB bypassed.

STEPS is very simple externally, just battery mount, display and wheel sensor plugging in to the motor. If it doesn't switch on, then best diy diagnostics is to try replacing each bit in turn.

It sounds like you have found a problem in the battery, in which case a new / secondhand battery will be needed. I would have wanted to try a different display before I opened the battery just to eliminate it from enquiries.

Most STEPS parts do come up from time to time e.g. on ebay, and you are not tied to a 6010 battery. Any STEPS battery with the matching mount should be fine, the 6010 is rather old, so even a 'new' one will be quite a few years old.

I have paid between £130 and £225 for batteries in good order, £30ish for display, £25 to £40 for battery mounts by keeping my eyes open and buying before needed for my spares box.

Good luck.

 

[cyclebuddy]

...then best diy diagnostics is to try replacing each bit in turn...

@matthewslack : Can I ask you purely out of curiosity: On the Steps system, other than the battery, can you actually just swap parts out (display, controller, motor) without updating the firmware? On my Bafang mid-motor (UART) you can of course change all and everything without penalty, but my TranzX mid-motor (CANbus) system uses part-pairing and a payload file: Any component change (apart from the battery) needs a firmware update for new bits to work (fortunately I do have that dealer software).

Maybe Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha, Brose, Fazua et al will one-day make that diagnostics available when the "right to repair" comes into law, because it can get very expensive changing parts on a guess.

 

[matthewslack]

Going only on my experience, and not having needed to change any settings like wheel size, as far as I know the display is not a repository of important data, so if the motor is working, any battery mount that has the right cable to plug into the motor and it's battery, and another display of the same type should always work. Other displays probably fine too, but I would avoid the doubt by not changing if I already had a problem.

There are compatibility charts on Shimano's website.

The '6000' series is quite old, and for all I know the 61xx may be somewhat different to the 60xx, but I would expect an 80xx battery and mount to work, but only trying it out will say for sure.

The only issues I have had have always been connection quality, for example my remotely mounted battery on the solar setup not being tight enough in its mount. Always solved by more tension in the bungy cord holding it together.

 

[cyclebuddy]

With the TranzX CANbus system, it reads serial numbers from each component (display, controller, motor) to determine which firmware it needs to upload. Ergo, change for example the display (even to a direct replacement with the same model/part number), and the bike still won't work because the new display's serial number (held in the payload file) doesn't match. Only the battery - which the diagnostics shows also has a serial number embedded in the BMS - doesn't register/matter.

It'd be a right bugger without that ability to update the bike firmware which in-it-self is a poxy little file that takes only a few seconds to upload.

 

[Tomblarom]

Sorry for straightaway ignoring the OPs question, but I have to ask regarding this:

Yes, it'll be CANbus.

Did you do any deeper research regarding this topic? I'm interested learn more about the protocol Shimano uses between battery and motor. From what I was able to find so far is, that it's CAN or UART..

 

[soundwave]

Sorry for straightaway ignoring the OPs question, but I have to ask regarding this:


Did you do any deeper research regarding this topic? I'm interested learn more about the protocol Shimano uses between battery and motor. From what I was able to find so far is, that it's CAN or UART..

they all use can bus but it is encrypted to stop anyone fixing them or recelling the batts the Yamaha motors use uart but not the ones on giant bikes as use there own controllers and displays.

 

[Tomblarom]

they all use can bus but it is encrypted

Is it a fact and can be confirmed by a source that tried sniffing on the bus? If this is a myth, nobody tried, I'll do it myself.. That's why I asked if anybody already did research on this.

 

[soundwave]

been banging my head against that brick wall for nearly ten years now and the ebike motor centre wont even touch shitmano motors.

eBike Motor Repairs & Servicing - Homepage

eBike Motor Parts Repairs & Servicing, (formally, Performance Line Bearings) has become the “go to place” for all your e-Bike motor repairs...

www.ebikemotorcentre.com

there is someone in the uk that can work on the batts but its not 100% that it will work

 

[soundwave]

 

[soundwave]

Bosch BMS

( Zusammenstellung versch. Beiträge aus dem Pedelec Forum. und der Telegram Grupppe: „Hardware Junkie“ . Dank der Initiative einzelner hier eine Zusammenfassung der Erkenntnisse: Wichti…

ebike-workshop.com

if it detects you messing with it the software can bus will brick it they just dont want you to fix anything and just throw it in the bin and get a new one

 

[Tomblarom]

@soundwave thanks but this doesn't help me or answer my questions. In fact it's not even related to Shimano and your link is not providing repairs for Shimano batteries..

 

[soundwave]

Re-Build ande Re-Cell of Shimano Batteries

There is very interesting information regarding batteries in the thread for E8000 Motor Repair: https://www.emtbforums.com/threads/steps-e8000-motor-service.16542/post-444917 and forum member @fuikatasio has suggested not to mix topics and to open a new thread related only to batteries. I...

www.emtbforums.com

or give scott a ring

Scott
Torque-E-Cycles
139 Bibbacombe Rd
Torquay
01803 325945

he is the only person in the uk recelling these batts so it can be done you just need to know what you are doing first esp with the bosch ones.

 

[soundwave]

 

[soundwave]

this place is in germany but there is no option for a cell exchange as if they did it would be listed as a option so looks like there more hassle than there worth trying to do it.

Shimano Steps BT-E6010 | Liofit

Wir reparieren alle Shimano Steps BT-E6010 E-Bike Akkus! Wir tauschen Zellpakete oder bieten ein Reparatur-Komplettpaket mit Elektronikreparatur, falls ihr Akku streikt.

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