ECO Stepper Throttle Question.

[Mark Drake]

Hi,

Has anybody fitted a thumb throttle on an ECO Stepper electric bicycle with pedal assist?

Did it give both pedal and throttle working together?

The motor on my bike is all or nothing in each of the L M H modes. It would be nice if a throttle would allow variable speed control but still need me to pedal. I am trying to gradually build up the strength in my legs in spite of having poor circulation in my legs.

Details of where to buy one and how to connect would be appreciated.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

There should be a connector for one on the controller, so it's just a question of fitting one. Thet all work with the same three wires, so you can use any one. It will over-ride the pedal sensor, so you can get less power when you pedal.

First check that you have the connector. For that you have to remove one of the sides from the battery holder (two screws in the side and about 4 little ones around it. With a side off, you can pull out the controller and check the connectors. You're looking for a connector with three pins.

There was another thread about fitting a throtyle to an Eco Stepper about a month ago. See if you can find it. I can't.

 

[Kuorider]

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/any-ideas-as-to-what-all-these-wires-are-for.21031/#post-26 This is the link Dave mentioned. It's an easy fit, the socket is the unused one with three wires on the bunch of plugs at the controller. You will have to cut this plug off if it does not match your throttle plug. Join red/red black/black and remaining colours to each other. It's an easy and cheap job . A thumb throttle may be best as it takes up less space on the bars, it depends on the type of gear change you have, if a twist type changer it will need altered to a lever type to allow space for a right hand twist throttle. It's easier to hold a steady setting with a twist type. Try unplugging the pedal sensor and juggle throttle /gears to achieve the muscle effort you want.
The ones Panda sell are good quality and the service reliable.

 

[Mark Drake]

Hi Kuorider and D8vh.

After trying to discover how the addition of a throttle would affect the way the throttle would interact with the Pedelect ECO stepper, with the excellent help from you guys' I finally bought a cheap throttle (£3) and connected it to my controller.

The throttle on it's own (without pedaling) increased the revs from zero to maximum and from maximum to zero just great.

With the throttle at half revs I started to pedal and the pedaling immediately overrode the throttle setting and gave maximum power to the motor.

On stopping the pedaling the throttle became effective again.

This would seem to be an either or situation, not both together.

Is this the way that all throttles interact with the Pedelecs'?

What I was hoping for was that the throttle would control the maximum power being fed to the Pedelec via the L M H settings.

EG if at half throttle then only half the power would be fed to the motor when pedaling, no power to the motor when pedaling stopped.

I connected the throttle to the unused three pin female plug, red to red, black to black and green to yellow.

There is an unused two male pin plug, can anybody tell me what this is for?

Regards.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It's normally the other way round, so the throttle overrides the pedal sensor, but it just depends how your system has been programmed. To have a totally independent throttle, you'd have to put a switch on your pedal sensor signal wire. You cut it and run the two ends up to a switch on the handlebars. If you had bought a throttle with a switch on it, you'd be home and dry. Which throttle did you get?

 

[Mark Drake]

It's normally the other way round, so the throttle overrides the pedal sensor, but it just depends how your system has been programmed. To have a totally independent throttle, you'd have to put a switch on your pedal sensor signal wire. You cut it and run the two ends up to a switch on the handlebars. If you had bought a throttle with a switch on it, you'd be home and dry. Which throttle did you get?

Hi D8veh,

Thanks for your prompt response.

It was a simple moveable magnet throttle from Hong Kong a company called BangGood. It was less than £3 with free postage. They don't seem to have it for sale now. My laptop crashed lat week and I lost the emails.

The switch you mentioned would switch the pedal sensor off to allow the throttle setting to dictate the speed with pedaling optional, and on to have the pedaling override the throttle setting and the throttle setting active when pedaling ceased.

Am I right?

Is the unused two pin plug off the controller for an on off switch?

Regards

 

[Mark Drake]

This is the throttle I bought http://www.banggood.com/78in-Universal-Thumb-Throttle-Speed-Control-E-Bike-Electric-Bike-Scooter-3-Wires-p-982047.html

 

[Kuorider]

With the throttle at half revs I started to pedal and the pedaling immediately overrode the throttle setting and gave maximum power to the motor.

The LMH modes do not work with the throttle, so as soon as you engage throttle even a fraction these cancel out and any pedalling will give full power, this is correct. When you start pedalling just drop the throttle off and the chosen LMH will return. The throttle is really only for use when not pedalling or to give an instant boost when pedalling.
I noticed in your original post that LMH 'gave all or nothing' there should be 3 definite speed steps,these can be fudged a bit until you get 'the feel' of each, if not your controller may be faulty. Test by pedalling carefully in each setting until you feel the cut off, it's easy to pedal past each step if you are strong . The two spare wires usually provide battery voltage for lights if fitted.
You could try Dave's suggestion quickly by just unplugging the pedal sensor to see if it suits you, many bikes are throttle only or pedal sensor only Try both to find your preference. Combine both and a degree of crossover occurs as you have found.
These are relatively simple control systems and you may be expecting functions of which they are not capable.

 

[Kuorider]

The motor on my bike is all or nothing in each of the L M H modes. It would be nice if a throttle would allow variable speed control but still need me to pedal.

Further to this you may need a Torque sensor controlled bike to achieve the performance you want, these add power the harder you pedal, at selectable levels. Dave can advise you better on this as often a custom build is the way to go . Meanwhile try using L with a higher gear to keep you pushing a bit harder to keep up the pace with no throttle.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Hi D8veh,

Thanks for your prompt response.

It was a simple moveable magnet throttle from Hong Kong a company called BangGood. It was less than £3 with free postage. They don't seem to have it for sale now. My laptop crashed lat week and I lost the emails.

The switch you mentioned would switch the pedal sensor off to allow the throttle setting to dictate the speed with pedaling optional, and on to have the pedaling override the throttle setting and the throttle setting active when pedaling ceased.

Am I right?

Is the unused two pin plug off the controller for an on off switch?

Regards

That's correct.

The two pin connector could be for anything, but not a switch. It could be for lights or another brake connector.

The throttle you've got is the easiest to fit. All throttles work the same as they all have a 5v hall senor and magnets inside regardless of what you see on the outside.

You can't fit a torque sensor without changing the controller. There are other controllers that you can use that might work a bit better. They cost from £25 to £60 depending on how nice you want to make your bike to ride.

You can get a handlebar switch from Banggood for about £2.

 

[Kuorider]

You can't fit a torque sensor without changing the controller. There are other controllers that you can use that might work a bit better

Dave could you find time do a piece on this, I think there may be quite a bit of interest in converting to Torque sensor control from other members. One of your spec lists would be more than welcome.

 

[Mark Drake]

Thanks guys.

I think that I'll go for the either pedal or throttle solution selected by a on/off switch on the handlebars. Not my ideal solution but I think it's the best one I can get with my ECO stepper controller.
Taking D8dvh's solution of installing an on/off switch to break into the PAS wire would mean.

Switch off position would mean that the throttle would control speed of the motor and pedaling would be optional.

This would allow me to have a little power at very slow speeds for negotiating people or rough ground where I needed just a little pedaling assistance.

It would enable me to pull away smoothly if I had stopped in top gear. Trying to change from top to bottom derailleur gear when stationary seems like a good candidate of getting the chain to jump off the chain wheel and mash the pedaling sensor again.

It would enable me to adjust the motor speed to enable me to put the pedal pressure I am comfortable with at all speeds. At the moment I can be unable to keep up with the motor so getting no pedal pressure exercise.

It would mean that even if the chain mashed the pedaling sensor I would still be able to get assistance home. This attribute alone makes the modification a good insurance policy.

With the switch in the on position and the throttle closed the pedelec function would act exactly the ex factory way it worked. Pedaling would me mandatory.

With the switch in the on position and the throttle open the throttle would apply gradual speed but then jerk up to pedelec speeds if the pedals were turned. I think that would get me confused.

It would be simpler to operate if a double throw double pole switch cut of the pedal sensor wire or the throttle sensor wire but I can't find such a switch which is both waterproof and fixes to a 22mm handlebar. Two single on/off switches would also tend to confuse.

My approach is to use the bike to get my legs strong enough and flexible enough to hopefully ride my Bromptom again. Speed is not the criteria at this stage.

 

[Kuorider]

A single pole switch as recommended by Dave in his last post will do. Fit it on the pedal sensor wire, it's pointless on the throttle wire as you can just leave it closed . Let us know how you get on with this.

 

[Mark Drake]

I certainly will keep you informed.

I've got multi core cable and heat shrink from Maplin, soldering flux from a local DIY shop and solder equipment which I found where I had left it in the garage 20 years ago.

It will be about 3 weeks before the bits and bobs arrive from China.

Presumably the pedal sensor will be three wires, positive, negative and signal.

Will those be red, black and another colour, the other colour being the one I wire the switch into?

Regards,

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Yes.

 

[Kuorider]

Watch that flux, the wrong type will cause corrosion , Use the proper flux core solder for electronics and not plumber's stuff. You would have been much faster getting the bits from Panda. I would always put the switch in the positive feed in any three wire system. However check with Dave just in case.

 

[Mark Drake]

Hi,

I have now completed the modification and it works precisely as worked out above.

With the switch in the ON position the pedelec works as ex factory as long as you don't use the thumb throttle. This mode often makes me go faster than I can pedal so I don't get proper exercise and the bike only goes at slow speed when needing assistance with a stop go stop go pedal control action. Basically the motor gives all or nothing.

With the switch in the ON position and using the thumb throttle the motor works from a standing start and if you pedal the two modes merge and I am not quite sure which mode is the dominant one. I don't like this mode because it confuses me.

With the switch in the OFF position and using the thumb throttle the motor works from a standing start and you can pedal if you wish. This mode is controlled purely on the throttle. To me this is the ideal mode for instant motor take up and I allows me to keep my pedal pressure constant while still traveling slowly or quickly. If the pedelec sensor gets mashed by the chain coming off the chain sprockets and my legs are giving problems I can still get home.

OK, the method of attack.

My gear changer is a twist grip one so I had to put the thumb throttle on the left side of the handlebar. The on off switch would only fit on the right hand side.

The first job which could be a problem is removing the left handlebar grip. I tried using a few cocktail sticks between the grip and the handlebar, laying the bike down on a monoblock chair so that soapy water cold drain down between the bar and the grip. Tried to twist the grip. Tried the compressed air trick. All failed to shift the grip. The only thing which finally worked was the bent welding rod rotation method with the soapy water draining down the grip.

If you have a bell and bike computer as I do, the handlebar is getting pretty full and working our how everything is easy to use without taking your hands off the grips to use took a while of trial and error.

The length of cable from the thumb throttle and the on/off switch were differing lengths and didn't even reach the bike frame.

I connected the throttle and switch cables to the controller compartment by some trailer lighting cable. The gauge of copper cable is so small in these days of expensive copper that it is not far off the size of the throttle cable. The trailer cable is seven core and I needed five of those cores. this did make the external cable a good match with the rest of the external cable harness.

I used the three throttle cable six inch cut off lengths to connect to the trailer cable to the three pin controller plug. I took the switch take of from the green pedelec signal wire in the controller compartment.

All soldered connections encased in heat shrink and heat shrink used to enclose bundles of inner cables.

D8veh's concern about the flux. I used the flux to keep the soldering iron clean and I used electronic multicore solder to do the soldering.

Yes D8veh, connecting the switch to the red wire would have been more sensible. I wish I had seen your post before I did the connections. If the chain cuts the wire there could be a short. Presumably the red wire is the live wire and the black the earth wire?

What I did do was to have about 7 or 8 inches of trailer wire excess packed into the controller compartment for if I needed to redo any bad soldered joints or or rewire anything. And I have two spare trailer wire cables.

I was my first try at modifications. I could have got the bits from Panda but I went for cheap prices so if I could not make it work the way I wanted to I wouldn't have lost much. Couldn't actually see good pictures of the throttle on the Panda website. They were swapping websites at the time.

The controller compartment and the handlebars are full to bursting!

Has anybody used the remaining controller two pin plug to power the bike lights?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

D8veh's concern about the flux.

Not my concern!

 

[Mark Drake]

Hi D8veh,

Apologies if my wording was not correct.

I was trying to give you credit for very valid comments about my first attempt at modifying the ECO Stepper.

Given you a couple of "likes".

Regards.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I'm just pointing out that it was Kuorider that mentioned the flux, not me. I don't care what flux I use.