Help wanted with Boss adjustment
- Thread starter allen-uk
- Start date
Tempted, superDove, but as an ex-alcoholic, it'd end in tears!
Latest from TETS London is that he's made contact with the US people who supplied the kit in the first place, and is very confident that between them they can now sort out the problems.
I'll keep you all posted.
A.
Latest from TETS London is that he's made contact with the US people who supplied the kit in the first place, and is very confident that between them they can now sort out the problems.
I'll keep you all posted.
A.
D
Deleted member 4366
Guest
It seems really daft to for them to buy A Chinese kit from USA because you have a double mark-up and double transport costs. The USA people no nothing about pedal assist systems because, in general, they don't use them. That's probably why you never got it in the first place, and then they suggested another daft solution, which probably nobody has ever tried. I wish you luck, and hope it gets sorted out soon.
An update, although not a very happy one.
It seems that TETS can't do what I paid them to do, that is supply a Boss conversion with pedelec and throttle.
I am almost ground to a halt, now.
However, they again suggest (as they did a month or so back) that what they CAN do is give me the bike with Boss conversion, throttle, and only ONE level of pedelec power, that is set to maximum power, no different levels.
I've agreed to this on a temporary basis, i.e. that they fix up the bike in that way, send it to me, and I test it, and if I find it unacceptable I'll send it straight back to them.
I know you (d8veh) described this is as a 'diabolical' solution, but I've got to let them have a go at it, with me testing it, before I can dismiss it out of hand. Haven't I? What choices are left?
I passed on the suggestions about the new controller a month ago, but they were ignored; I suspect they didn't want to spend any more money on the bike (although I did offer to PAY for the new controller).
I should get their version of a Boss conversion with pedelec in the next week or so, and will report back when I find out what it is actually like to ride, although I suspect that my original spec., i.e. for 'a Wisper with more oomph', might not be arriving at my door any time soon.
However, I'll wait and see.
A.
It seems that TETS can't do what I paid them to do, that is supply a Boss conversion with pedelec and throttle.
I am almost ground to a halt, now.
However, they again suggest (as they did a month or so back) that what they CAN do is give me the bike with Boss conversion, throttle, and only ONE level of pedelec power, that is set to maximum power, no different levels.
I've agreed to this on a temporary basis, i.e. that they fix up the bike in that way, send it to me, and I test it, and if I find it unacceptable I'll send it straight back to them.
I know you (d8veh) described this is as a 'diabolical' solution, but I've got to let them have a go at it, with me testing it, before I can dismiss it out of hand. Haven't I? What choices are left?
I passed on the suggestions about the new controller a month ago, but they were ignored; I suspect they didn't want to spend any more money on the bike (although I did offer to PAY for the new controller).
I should get their version of a Boss conversion with pedelec in the next week or so, and will report back when I find out what it is actually like to ride, although I suspect that my original spec., i.e. for 'a Wisper with more oomph', might not be arriving at my door any time soon.
However, I'll wait and see.
A.
Latest from TETS London. Can't make head or tail of the argument here.
Can anyone throw light on what they're saying?
QUOTE...
It isn't the throttle that decides if you can start from stand still but the motor. Unfortunately the BOSS cannot be started from stand still as it is what is known as a 'sensor-less' motor.
After discussing the requirements, you will need a sensored motor otherwise they will keep breaking.
UNQUOTE.
What????? (As it happens, when I briefly had the bike a few months ago, it DID start from standstill on the throttle, as you'd expect).
Is there ANY sense in the above, or has the world gone finally loopy?
A
Can anyone throw light on what they're saying?
QUOTE...
It isn't the throttle that decides if you can start from stand still but the motor. Unfortunately the BOSS cannot be started from stand still as it is what is known as a 'sensor-less' motor.
After discussing the requirements, you will need a sensored motor otherwise they will keep breaking.
UNQUOTE.
What????? (As it happens, when I briefly had the bike a few months ago, it DID start from standstill on the throttle, as you'd expect).
Is there ANY sense in the above, or has the world gone finally loopy?
A
D
Deleted member 4366
Guest
These big DD motors without hall sensors often don't like to start from a standstill. The controller uses the sensors to figure out when to fire pulses to turn the motor. Without them, it needs the motor to be turning to figure out when to time them. Some controllers are better at figuring it out than others. On your setup, if you used full throttle from a stand-still, it's possible to blow the FETs in the controller. Whatever you do, don't let them have any more money.
Hello d8veh.
No, no more money, no more bike. They've given up, even on the single-power version.
They're now talking refunds, which I am assuming (berk that I am) will be swift and total...
At my advanced years, 8 months down the drain is a SIGNIFICANT lump out of my future life expectancy!
PS Have you got any ideas where I can get a high-powered conversion done? How far is Telford from NW London?
A
No, no more money, no more bike. They've given up, even on the single-power version.
They're now talking refunds, which I am assuming (berk that I am) will be swift and total...
At my advanced years, 8 months down the drain is a SIGNIFICANT lump out of my future life expectancy!
PS Have you got any ideas where I can get a high-powered conversion done? How far is Telford from NW London?
A
An epilogue.
First, a recap.
I wanted an off-road bike, a pedelec with a throttle - basically like my Wisper, but with loads more torque. I wasn’t interested in speed, just hill-climbing - north-west London isn’t the Highlands, but some of the off-road tracks have some really climbs, and getting too steep for me lately.
The Boss conversion offered by TETS seemed to fit the bill. Expensive, sure, but my philosophy has always been that if you want the best, you have to pay the price.
On their website, there is a video showing a Boss bike in action - very impressive. It turned out that the Boss is throttle only, but after discussing it with their London branch they assured me that a pedelec version was just a matter of some extra work (and an extra £600 on the bill).
I delivered my bike to them, paid the money and waited, and waited, for many months, during which time they had problems and then more problems. At one stage they delivered the bike to me, but the pedal power only kicked in occasionally, so back it went for further work.
Towards the end of this eight-month period, TETS offered me a different bike - custom-built, looked the part, but I would have ended up paying the £2600 plus the £950 I'd paid for my original non-electric bike, and for £3500+ I could have bought two brand-new Wispers - and worst of all, the offered bike was the same nominal torque rating as my Wisper 905.
I turned down the offer, and settled for a refund instead, as eight months was long enough even for someone with my patience. It took a few weeks to negotiate the final terms of surrender. Initially, LETS wanted to knock off £430 for the 'rack and bag' , the brake levers, and fitting those bits. Eventually they backed down and just gave me back all my money, including the new Topeak rack and bag (to replace my original rack which they'd lost), and left the new brake levers on the bike.
So financially I couldn't complain - in fact if you read the preceding pages, I haven’t complained about price, just what I got for my money. The other cause for complaint was the lack of expertise shown by TETS - first telling me that they could certainly build the bike I wanted, and finally telling me not only that they couldn’t, and that in their opinion no-one else could, either!
Anyway, as you can't ride a refund, I was stuck with no bike.
At which point St George, in the person of d8veh (well-known in these columns) rode to my rescue and offered to build me the bike I'd wanted for the cost of the parts, which he guessed would be around £1000. We had an upside-down haggling session in which I finally got him to agree to accept more money than that - although if he'd included his labour, the final bill would have been FAR higher.
And after a couple of months, he delivered.
And what a bike!
A powerful (500W) off-roader with full throttle and pedelec functions - see photographs below View attachment 10071 .
My 'donor' bike had been a nicely balanced mountain bike - an On One steel frame, and pre-electric it rode like a thoroughbred. Dave decided to 're-balance' the new e-bike by distributing the extra weight towards the centre, and built a one-off battery container to fit into my 'triangle’. He made a wooden mould, and then cast a fibre-glass container. He found a specialist battery maker in Germany to make a triangular battery to fit the new space, so that the extra weight of the motor and battery are spread out from back wheel to handlebars, and the bike is as well balanced as ever.
He used the following configuration (not that I understand the technicalities, being a rider rather than a fixer): a 48v Bafang BPM2 motor (500w 260 rpm at 25 amps). The custom-built battery is 48v, 15aH, Sony VT3 cells. Bafang 500W BMSB kit (motor, controller, LCD, torque arms, throttle, etc). to achieve what I'd asked for in the first place, that is to say a pedelec, set up like my Wisper 905, but much (much) more powerful.
I'm now riding round on what TETS declared was an impossibility.
The controller is tucked-in on top of the battery, under the crossbar. Handlebar controls are the throttle, an on-off switch which controls the power level, and an easy-to-read LCD which shows power levels (1 to 5), battery charge indicator, inside and outside temperature (probably) - all the usual data you get from a bike computer.
Haven’t tested the range yet, but Dave took the bike out on a long test ride (50km), and reported that the battery still had loads left when he returned. More than enough for me, as a long run for me would be 15km.
The ride is smooth and powerful - it’s been a long time since I’ve driven a sports car, but that’s certainly the feeling (compared to the Wisper, which is more like a Transit van).
It does go fast, of course, but it is the raw power that pleases me most - I can take my large and unfit body (125kg-plus, one plastic leg, generally old and not what it was) to the foot of a very steep path, and get to the top - with some effort on my part - where before I would have had to stop half way, and either turn and go back, or push my heavy and underpowered Wisper to the summit.
On level ground, particularly in a park where I might encounter pedestrians, I keep the power setting to ‘3’, which is about equivalent to maximum on the Wisper, and it moves me along (with some pedalling) at 12 to 15 mph or so. I don’t think it would go particularly fast - maybe 25 or so tops - but speed doesn’t interest me.
I’ve kept to Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres, which gave me over 4 years puncture-free riding on the Wisper, and I’ve slimed the tubes. Fingers crossed.
The brakes are excellent. We’ve used hydraulic discs - beautifully smooth action - in fact it feels like braking in a car, even in the wet.
Unfortunately for the e-bike industry, Dave doesn’t want a job. He’s far too busy doing favours for the likes of me, which is the e-bike industry’s loss, and our gain. The expertise and inventiveness of this man is stunning, and there are too few like him.
============
First, a recap.
I wanted an off-road bike, a pedelec with a throttle - basically like my Wisper, but with loads more torque. I wasn’t interested in speed, just hill-climbing - north-west London isn’t the Highlands, but some of the off-road tracks have some really climbs, and getting too steep for me lately.
The Boss conversion offered by TETS seemed to fit the bill. Expensive, sure, but my philosophy has always been that if you want the best, you have to pay the price.
On their website, there is a video showing a Boss bike in action - very impressive. It turned out that the Boss is throttle only, but after discussing it with their London branch they assured me that a pedelec version was just a matter of some extra work (and an extra £600 on the bill).
I delivered my bike to them, paid the money and waited, and waited, for many months, during which time they had problems and then more problems. At one stage they delivered the bike to me, but the pedal power only kicked in occasionally, so back it went for further work.
Towards the end of this eight-month period, TETS offered me a different bike - custom-built, looked the part, but I would have ended up paying the £2600 plus the £950 I'd paid for my original non-electric bike, and for £3500+ I could have bought two brand-new Wispers - and worst of all, the offered bike was the same nominal torque rating as my Wisper 905.
I turned down the offer, and settled for a refund instead, as eight months was long enough even for someone with my patience. It took a few weeks to negotiate the final terms of surrender. Initially, LETS wanted to knock off £430 for the 'rack and bag' , the brake levers, and fitting those bits. Eventually they backed down and just gave me back all my money, including the new Topeak rack and bag (to replace my original rack which they'd lost), and left the new brake levers on the bike.
So financially I couldn't complain - in fact if you read the preceding pages, I haven’t complained about price, just what I got for my money. The other cause for complaint was the lack of expertise shown by TETS - first telling me that they could certainly build the bike I wanted, and finally telling me not only that they couldn’t, and that in their opinion no-one else could, either!
Anyway, as you can't ride a refund, I was stuck with no bike.
At which point St George, in the person of d8veh (well-known in these columns) rode to my rescue and offered to build me the bike I'd wanted for the cost of the parts, which he guessed would be around £1000. We had an upside-down haggling session in which I finally got him to agree to accept more money than that - although if he'd included his labour, the final bill would have been FAR higher.
And after a couple of months, he delivered.
And what a bike!
A powerful (500W) off-roader with full throttle and pedelec functions - see photographs below View attachment 10071 .
My 'donor' bike had been a nicely balanced mountain bike - an On One steel frame, and pre-electric it rode like a thoroughbred. Dave decided to 're-balance' the new e-bike by distributing the extra weight towards the centre, and built a one-off battery container to fit into my 'triangle’. He made a wooden mould, and then cast a fibre-glass container. He found a specialist battery maker in Germany to make a triangular battery to fit the new space, so that the extra weight of the motor and battery are spread out from back wheel to handlebars, and the bike is as well balanced as ever.
He used the following configuration (not that I understand the technicalities, being a rider rather than a fixer): a 48v Bafang BPM2 motor (500w 260 rpm at 25 amps). The custom-built battery is 48v, 15aH, Sony VT3 cells. Bafang 500W BMSB kit (motor, controller, LCD, torque arms, throttle, etc). to achieve what I'd asked for in the first place, that is to say a pedelec, set up like my Wisper 905, but much (much) more powerful.
I'm now riding round on what TETS declared was an impossibility.
The controller is tucked-in on top of the battery, under the crossbar. Handlebar controls are the throttle, an on-off switch which controls the power level, and an easy-to-read LCD which shows power levels (1 to 5), battery charge indicator, inside and outside temperature (probably) - all the usual data you get from a bike computer.
Haven’t tested the range yet, but Dave took the bike out on a long test ride (50km), and reported that the battery still had loads left when he returned. More than enough for me, as a long run for me would be 15km.
The ride is smooth and powerful - it’s been a long time since I’ve driven a sports car, but that’s certainly the feeling (compared to the Wisper, which is more like a Transit van).
It does go fast, of course, but it is the raw power that pleases me most - I can take my large and unfit body (125kg-plus, one plastic leg, generally old and not what it was) to the foot of a very steep path, and get to the top - with some effort on my part - where before I would have had to stop half way, and either turn and go back, or push my heavy and underpowered Wisper to the summit.
On level ground, particularly in a park where I might encounter pedestrians, I keep the power setting to ‘3’, which is about equivalent to maximum on the Wisper, and it moves me along (with some pedalling) at 12 to 15 mph or so. I don’t think it would go particularly fast - maybe 25 or so tops - but speed doesn’t interest me.
I’ve kept to Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres, which gave me over 4 years puncture-free riding on the Wisper, and I’ve slimed the tubes. Fingers crossed.
The brakes are excellent. We’ve used hydraulic discs - beautifully smooth action - in fact it feels like braking in a car, even in the wet.
Unfortunately for the e-bike industry, Dave doesn’t want a job. He’s far too busy doing favours for the likes of me, which is the e-bike industry’s loss, and our gain. The expertise and inventiveness of this man is stunning, and there are too few like him.
============
Very cool. Thanks for the recap, and for sharing the final result. Looks like d8veh did you a great build there.
Can you remember the name of the company in Germany that did your 48V triangle battery?
I'm having crazy thoughts about a 48V upgrade to my 36V system for extra speed. Naughty!
Can you remember the name of the company in Germany that did your 48V triangle battery?
I'm having crazy thoughts about a 48V upgrade to my 36V system for extra speed. Naughty!
D
Deleted member 4366
Guest
It's not a company, it's a guy. He gets the cells and welds them into whatever configuration you want. You have to finish off the battery, which means wire up the BMS and assemble the fuse, connectors, etc, and finally mount it in an enclosure? He goes under the name of Schwibsi on Endless Sphere. Send him a message if you want him to do something for you. It's not particularly cheap, but you can get the correct shape for what you need.
Very well done, Dave. TETS should be totally ashamed, but your integrity is to be applauded. A really happy ending to a sorry situation.