Kalkhoff BS

[Kudoscycles]

Alex and D8veh
Just to clarify the law,we are still working on 1982 EAPC regulations,which will only change to EU when our government finally signs up to EN15194.The following was lifted from the uk gov website and was updated May 2013,so it is current.

In Great Britain, if you’re 14 or over you don’t need a licence to ride electric bikes that meet certain requirements, and they don’t need to be registered, taxed or insured.

Electric bikes meeting the requirements are called ‘electrically assisted pedal cycles’ (EAPCs). They can be 2-wheeled bicycles, tandems or tricycles.

EAPC requirements

The requirements are:
the bike must have pedals that can be used to propel it
the electric motor shouldn’t be able to propel the bike when it’s travelling more than 15mph
the bike (including its battery but not the rider) must not be heavier than 40 kilograms (kg) if it’s a bicycle, or 60kg if it’s a tandem or tricycle
the motor shouldn’t have a maximum power output of more than 200 watts if it’s a bicycle and 250 watts if it’s a tandem or tricycle
the bike must have a plate showing the manufacturer, the nominal voltage of the battery, and the motor’s power output

Where you can ride an EAPC

If a bike meets the EAPC requirements it’s classed as a normal pedal bike. This means you can ride it on cycle paths and anywhere else pedal bikes are allowed.

Other kinds of electric bike

Any electric bike that doesn’t meet the EAPC rules needs to be registered and taxed. You’ll need a driving licence to ride one and you must wear a crash helmet.

The vehicle will also need to be ‘type approved’ to make sure it’s safe to use on the road.

So 200 watts is the current legal limit but the Dft have indicated that they will not prosecute bikes powered at 250 watts,this amnesty is in print somewhere.
The word illegal is one many of us utilised to describe bikes which fall out of 1982 EAPC but perhaps we can all agree that bikes that are outside of the regulations have to be registered and taxed and that is where the difficulty of these 350 watt bikes occurs,how do you register them?
I suppose that I took up this thread because the OP criticised the KTM bike versus the Kalkhoff BS10,thats not really a fair comparison if you have 350 watt x 28 mph available,
KudosDave

 

[103Alex1]

^^ I think I have a pretty good handle on the relevant elements of the current legislation to be fair, and I'm certain that Dave does. This is a new Member's thread and not meant to be hijacked for the purposes of spelling out yet again what has been spelled out endlessly on the forum over many months.

The real relevant point to draw from the OP's original post, surely, is that irrespective of the nominal motor rating, he liked this particular Kalkhoff better than the particular KTM he bought 1st and gave his reasons. That may be something the KTM crew don't like hearing but he's entitled to his opinion and to be free to express it without being jumped on, as if by a pack of wolves, all getting upset by this simple fact. If other people read it and it inspires them to go see if they agree or test the Endeavour then that's what people giving their individual opinions online is all about.

Having lifted and tested the Endeavour (albeit relatively briefly) I can understand why OP liked it - for a number of reasons. It looked good (classy rather than brash/racy), and felt easy to handle when riding (and when not). It was still 10kg too heavy for my own current preferences, but I know there are only one or two ways to achieve that - which come with their own considerable compromises. For what you get it's a good weight.

The word illegal is one many of us utilised to describe bikes which fall out of 1982 EAPC but perhaps we can all agree that bikes that are outside of the regulations have to be registered and taxed and that is where the difficulty of these 350 watt bikes occurs,how do you register them?
I suppose that I took up this thread because the OP criticised the KTM bike versus the Kalkhoff BS10,thats not really a fair comparison if you have 350 watt x 28 mph available,
KudosDave

No, they don't have to be registered and taxed. They only have to be if someone rides them in places where public have access in the UK and it's not possible to register them in UK without extensive modifications none of which are practical. Riding these bikes in other countries would be subject the the releavnt appropriate local legislation (and practice) So riders run the risks already explained in great detail above if they use them on a UK highway. That fact isn't going to stop people buying Kalkhoff Endeavours (or some other even more powerful bikes available from certain UK sellers who I am not going to name out here as it is totally irrelevant to do so).

In any event any implied criticisms of his original purchase OP may have made did not even extend to its assist speed, so far as I recall .. they were about various aspects of how his new bike felt as a whole in comparison.

 

[RobF]

There's nothing in the (now pulled) comments from the OP that KTM can reasonably complain about.

What we are seeing here is the 'Trip Advisor factor' which has caused problems in the hospitality trade.

Like it or not, anyone with a computer and an internet connection is now a published author or critic.

There's lots of information on the internet, but few people seem to understand the concept of provenance.

I take very little notice of one-off comments posted on manufacturers' websites, whether they be good or bad.

The system is too open for manipulation one way or the other.

I take more notice of comments posted on here, but only now that I've been around a while and have established that nearly all the long-standing members can be relied upon.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

I think it would be nice to hear what the dealer has to say. They are two very different bikes so you can understand someone prefering one over the other. There are similar bikes to the speed pedelec so it sounds to me like the wrong bike was chosen in the first place. Also any bike with Bosch classic motor and hub gears (200% max) will have lower assistance than derailleur (250% max) (except NuVinci).

Trip Adviser and similar are good but sometimes caution has to be taken and the business should get right of responce. I was pointing out it was unlucky a fault developed which can happen on any bike regardless of price.


We are looking at selling speed pedelecs and personally I have no problem with people who do as long as clearly states on the website that they need to be registered to be road legal. This was orginally not the case with 50c until it was raised on here a while back but it does now state it has to be registered.

 

[RobF]

Trip Advisor is particularly dodgy because accommodation/meals are very personal services and lend themselves to complaints, which viewed with even a small degree of detachment, are irrational.

 

[EddiePJ]

by Phil from Leicestershire on 01 Oct 2013
I was a little disappointed with the system, as it had a habit of stranding you in the highest gear on steep hills and the motor would cut out

I have to ask No1foxy, what were you doing in the first place riding up steep hills in the highest gear.

It's hardly surprising that the thing gave up, if that is the kind of abuse that were repeatedly giving it. No bike whatever brand is going to poke up with that kind of abuse for long.

I just feel sorry that KTM as a brand are been slammed for this one, and it isn't going be long before the Kalkhoff gives up either. Which again, won't be the fault of the manufacturer.

 

[103Alex1]

If it was the automatic shifting version it's hardly the rider's choice what gear they were riding in.

Perhaps the problem is similar to the one which left d8veh stuck in high gear at the NEC show with an automatic Nuvinci hub ? A fix was found for that, down to bike not set up properly.

 

[No1foxy]

I have to ask No1foxy, what were you doing in the first place riding up steep hills in the highest gear.

It's hardly surprising that the thing gave up, if that is the kind of abuse that were repeatedly giving it. No bike whatever brand is going to poke up with that kind of abuse for long.

I just feel sorry that KTM as a brand are been slammed for this one, and it isn't going be long before the Kalkhoff gives up either. Which again, won't be the fault of the manufacturer.

I can't be bothered to even start to answer that. I have been riding bikes for the best part of 50 years so I have got the hang of big hill low gear even if you have assistance. it is always good to hear from an expert though

 

[Kudoscycles]

No1Foxy.....are you happy to ride your BS10 on the uk roads or public cycle tracks?
KudosDave

 

[trex]

If there is no label on the bike that states 'rider needs to wear helmet and carry valid insurance document' and no1foxy or his son/daughter gets pulled by the police, regardless of all the caveat emptors on website or in print, I don't blame the rider, I'd blame the shop that sells him the bike.
If the rider had an accident, I bet you any half decent lawyer should be able to get compensation from the shop.

 

[EddiePJ]

No1foxy, you are certainly a glass half empty kind of guy. I can't imagine that anything is ever right for you, or ever pleases you

 

[No1foxy]

Hey who do you think you are. Am I going to take any notice of a person who admits he brought the wrong bike and now need to change things. Not you brightest move. I am very happy with both of the E bikes that I have. So I suggest that you keep you half arsed assumptions to your self. I have only on thing left to say to you and that is DILLIGAF

 

[EddiePJ]

As for me buying the wrong bike, in the early days of use I did think that, but that opinion has long since gone, and I can't get enough of riding it. I would add that you aren't exactly faultless in the buying the wrong bike department either. I didn't switched brands when I had issues with mine, despite being offered a full refund. Unlike you, I just cut the supplier some slack and allowed them to fix the problem. You on the other hand, just gave the supplier a hard time, then switched brands without allowing them to fix the problem. I would suggest that you made the bigger wrong choice, and simply saw a get out clause. I really don't think that you should go down the road of the "brightest move".

I'll leave the thread now, as continuing on would serve no purpose to anyone, and I'd hate to contribute to spoiling a superb forum, and No1foxy I hope that the Kalkhoff stays good and reliable for you.

 

[RobF]

I reckon Foxy's case was one of those rare occasions when the retailer was happy to give a refund.