July 11, 20205 yr Hi All. I have a KTM Elycan ebike with a Panasonic rear hub motor. I got it in a bit of a sorry state but changed the motor bearings and the motor seemed fine. The trouble is when I use the bike I have to have the power setting to High to gain any real benefit and after a ride I am literally more knackered than if I use my my other standard MTB. I could do with a motor service manual to check whether something has been over tightened or not lined up correctly. The bikes do weigh a ton but with pedal assistance it should make life easier not harder! Thanks Ian
July 11, 20205 yr It's been a long time, but IIRC there is some sort of regen setting in the LCD. You have to set it to minimum or off. edit: i just found a manual. here it is. see p27.140422_Rear hub unit_pedelec_EN.PDF Edited July 11, 20205 yr by vfr400
July 11, 20205 yr Author It's been a long time, but IIRC there is some sort of regen setting in the LCD. You have to set it to minimum or off. edit: i just found a manual. here it is. see p27. Hi, thanks vfr400 I’ve never seen that manual in English! Do you know where I could get a service manual for the motor or even an exploded diagram?
July 11, 20205 yr There used to be a sort of exploded diagram in one of the Panasonic publicity pages, but i can't find it anymore. I found this if you have good eyes: [url https://eu.industrial.panasonic.com/sites/default/pidseu/files/downloads/files/panabyc2015_eng.pdf found it: [ Edited July 11, 20205 yr by vfr400
July 12, 20205 yr Author There used to be a sort of exploded diagram in one of the Panasonic publicity pages, but i can't find it anymore. I found this if you have good eyes: [url https://eu.industrial.panasonic.com/sites/default/pidseu/files/downloads/files/panabyc2015_eng.pdf found it: [ Thanks for the info... I’m hoping that the wheel circumference is set incorrectly.. this would explain it sort of working but not correctly.. tape measure in hand!!
July 12, 20205 yr Author Thanks for the info... I’m hoping that the wheel circumference is set incorrectly.. this would explain it sort of working but not correctly.. tape measure in hand!! Hi, thanks Vfr400, the wheel circumference was set incorrectly but only about 7% out. Would this make a difference to the control system? It may calculate the assist differently based on a different wheel circumference?
July 12, 20205 yr I doubt that it would make much difference. I don't have any experience of working on these bikes. I rode one when they first came out about 6 or more years ago. In principle, they don't work any different to any other hub-motored bike. The main difference is the torque sensor that's in one of the rear drop-outs, from memory. Have a look at that to see whether it's installed properly or damaged.
July 12, 20205 yr Author Hi welcome Hope you get it sorted soon Thanks, I stripped the motor down earlier... will give it a blast soon.. I think it’s a mechanical issue....
July 13, 20205 yr Author There’s very little ‘knowledge’ about this Panasonic rear hub motor. I had the motor apart.. the planetary gears are in good condition.. it all seems very stiff but that must be how they are. Not sure whether grease or no grease.. there was some white grease in originally. There is a crap ball bearing arrangement at the cassette end. I’m surprised how much effort it take to turn a hub motor but with the wheel on it’s much easier but still needs some turning. Will give it a whirl later but having never ridden a decent e MTB bike I don’t know what to expect.. in Auto mode on the flat the motor occasionally tried to brake which isn’t right.. if that what’s happening all the time it may explain why the bike doesn’t seem to be powerful enough..anyone know how stiff the planetary gears should be? Cheers Ian
July 13, 20205 yr One thing you can try is to ride it without power, first with the motor connector connected, then disconnected, to see if there's any difference. If it's worse connected, there could be a fault with the controller. When I rode one of those bikes, I was impressed by its power and how nice it was to ride. I didn't even notice that there was no clutch in the motor.
July 17, 20205 yr Author One thing you can try is to ride it without power, first with the motor connector connected, then disconnected, to see if there's any difference. If it's worse connected, there could be a fault with the controller. When I rode one of those bikes, I was impressed by its power and how nice it was to ride. I didn't even notice that there was no clutch in the motor. Hi again... would anyone know if the Panasonic rear hub motor on the Elycan has a clutch or not? It may explain if it has and is stuck why it’s so hard to turn the gears even disconnected from the bike?
July 17, 20205 yr Author It doesn't. Do the test I said Thanks, I did the test sorry. No difference I’m afraid. Like you said.. no clutch saw a previous post. Motor in bits . I’ll post an exploded photo of the motor. If anything it will help someone in the future. The trouble is I’m not sure how much effort it takes to turn a geared hub motor..should it spin a few turns with the wheel on? . mine will almost stop on a sixpence.... and it seems very noisy.
July 17, 20205 yr It should spin maybe two turns when on the bike. Motors are generators when you turn them. If there is no way for the generated current to flow, the motor should turn without any resistance, but if there's any path from one phase to the other, the effort to turn the motor goes up rapidly. If you bridge one phase to another, you will see that it's virtually impossible to turn it because it generates more or less the same energy that you give it, so it fights back with equal strength.
July 17, 20205 yr Author It should spin maybe two turns when on the bike. Motors are generators when you turn them. If there is no way for the generated current to flow, the motor should turn without any resistance, but if there's any path from one phase to the other, the effort to turn the motor goes up rapidly. If you bridge one phase to another, you will see that it's virtually impossible to turn it because it generates more or less the same energy that you give it, so it fights back with equal strength. Agree. It’s exactly like you said. Will check windings for shorts and whether coils equally balanced..
July 19, 20205 yr Author Had the motor apart. Missed a circlip off the exploded photo! Checked between windings and get about 0.2 ohms across all 3 phases. There’s a fair reduction from the motor spindle to the drive ring so no wonder it’s a bit hard to turn. Not sure what lube to use, the gears are plastic. Will put it all together soon and see if it’s any better. There was some rust around the motor terminals which may have been tracking to the case.. it could be the reason. I couldn’t get to the Hall effect side as there is a bearing in the way and I don’t have the correct pullers
July 20, 20205 yr Author C Lithium grease is what most of us use. Used lithium grease and it seemed better and easier to turn. Put it all together and gave it a spin. It works fine, maybe I'm expecting more than I should. It accelerates well but I seem to have to put more effort in than thought...
July 21, 20205 yr Author Checked out this link.. mine is obviously not working properly.. any ideas why a motor / controller would sort of half work.. does give a bit of help but not much. In the video in ‘High’ this bike is whizzing along with the same drive train as mine. It’s lacking power but still working, no errors on the display. Could the torque sensor be faulty?
July 21, 20205 yr Checked out this link.. mine is obviously not working properly.. any ideas why a motor / controller would sort of half work.. does give a bit of help but not much. In the video in ‘High’ this bike is whizzing along with the same drive train as mine. It’s lacking power but still working, no errors on the display. Could the torque sensor be faulty? They do have really good power. It could be the torque sensor, but you'd need some sort of specification to test it against. There's hardly been any info or tests on this system on this forum. You might find something or you could ask on the German forum. There's much more over there on these sort of things. If you ask, keep sentences simple. Use Google translate if answers are in German. https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php
July 27, 20205 yr Author No. 13 is the sign of the recuperation. Hi, I have taken the torque sensor apart and the foil strip has come away from the axle. This foil strip is used to detect pedal torque when it rotates within the coil which is centre tapped. I wonder if I ‘superglue’ the strip back it will provide the correct output and increase the motor output to that what would be expected. The strip appears to be corroded but I am reluctant to clean it as it may affect the magnetic properties? Thanks for looking
July 27, 20205 yr Superglue should be OK. When I did my mechanical engineering degree, we used to glue strain gauges to metal with superglue (then called cyanoacrylate) to measure stresses. I think you can still get new replacement torque sensors from KTM.
July 27, 20205 yr Author Superglue should be OK. When I did my mechanical engineering degree, we used to glue strain gauges to metal with superglue (then called cyanoacrylate) to measure stresses. I think you can still get new replacement torque sensors from KTM. Thanks vfr400, I appreciate your help. Really struggling to find a source for the torque sensor anywhere. The Part number is NUA093.. it’s a Panasonic/Shimano joint effort I believe. They are like Hen’s teeth! With my electrical hat on I can see if the strip was loose it would affect the magnetic properties of the sensor if it were loose and not attached. Hopefully it will work when superglued on.. any ideas how to get this bearing off.. I’ve tried pullers and removed the retaining screw. The splined shaft could just be rusted on! Also who would use an open bearing on a precision part like this??? Thanks Ian
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