I'd compared some on the Grin Motor Simulator site that you can get quite different results for different motors so comparing a Aikema G75 with 14A compared to a DGWX with 20A on a 12% slope

Not sure how representative that is of your motors and the windings - my XF08C that I got from Woosh seemed to cope better with hills than the simulator for XF07 suggested

 

Noticed the MXUS XF07 seemed to do well on hills at these lowish speeds

there are some quirks in their motor simulator.

Use this baseline settings and change the motor:

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MDGWX&cont=C20&cont_b=C20&motor_b=MDGWX&batt_b=B3617_35E&batt=B3617_35E

They are given in the context of my bikes and kits.

In that case you should have written,

"The Faro has 40NM and Aikema 85SX motor, the Camino 45NM and Shengyi DWG07, the Satana has 50NM and Bafang SWX02 and the Gran Camino has 55NM and Shengyi DWG22. The controller on the Faro has 14A max, the Camino 16A, the Santana 18A and the Gran Camino 20A. "

In that case you should have written,

"The Faro has 40NM and Aikema 85SX motor, the Camino 45NM and Shengyi DWG07, the Satana has 50NM and Bafang SWX02 and the Gran Camino has 55NM and Shengyi DWG22. The controller on the Faro has 14A max, the Camino 16A, the Santana 18A and the Gran Camino 20A. "

 

Which is exactly what Woosh did in this post starting this difference.

 

As you later agreed in posting this:

 

They're not. You can give the torque for any bike or any kit, but not the motor on its own.

 

Just what he did for his named bike models.

.

there are some quirks in their motor simulator.

Use this baseline settings and change the motor:

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MDGWX&cont=C20&cont_b=C20&motor_b=MDGWX&batt_b=B3617_35E&batt=B3617_35E

OMG - that Gran-Camino is flying up 12% hills !

 

Which is exactly what Woosh did in this post starting this difference.

 

As you later agreed in posting this:

 

 

 

Just what he did for his named bike models.

.

Time for you to get some new reading glasses, Flecc.

Original quote:

The Faro has 40NM Aikema 85SX motor, the Camino 45NM Shengyi DWG07, the Satana has 50NM Bafang SWX02 and the Gran Camino has 55NM Shengyi DWG22. The controller on the Faro has 14A max, the Camino 16A, the Santana 18A and the Gran Camino 20A.

Hill climbing at relatively low speed: best is the Gran-Camino.

Saneagle's version:

In that case you should have written,

"The Faro has 40NM and Aikema 85SX motor, the Camino 45NM and Shengyi DWG07, the Satana has 50NM and Bafang SWX02 and the Gran Camino has 55NM and Shengyi DWG22. The controller on the Faro has 14A max, the Camino 16A, the Santana 18A and the Gran Camino 20A. "

Saneagle's version is more concise but I think the gist is the same.

Original quote:

 

Saneagle's version:

 

Saneagle's version is more concise but I think the gist is the same.

The gist is not the same. There's no such thing as a 50Nm motor, but you can have a 50NM ebike. In simple terms, you can have a 50Nm bike that has a motor but you can't have a bike that has a 50Nm motor. It's the bike's control system and battery that determine how much torque you get, not the motor. The same motor with differnt bikes with different controllers with different currents will give different amounts of torque. Different motors in the same bike with the same controllers and batteries will give similar amounts of torque as long as the motors aren't fundamentally different.

 

Flecc already corrected somebody else on that recently, so he clearly made a mistake with his reading in this case.

Different motors in the same bike with the same controllers and batteries will give similar amounts of torque as long as the motors aren't fundamentally different.

the difference is sometimes quite striking, beside the fact that small motors suffer a lot more from overheating. Compare for example a substitution of the DWG22 with Bafang G01 (BAFANG | Motor | RM G010.250.D (bafang-e.com) ) using the same motor emulator:

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MDGWX&cont=C20&cont_b=C20&motor_b=MDGWX&batt_b=B3617_35E&batt=B3617_35E

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MG01_STD&cont=C20&cont_b=C20&motor_b=MDGWX&batt_b=B3617_35E&batt=B3617_35E

The maximum torque for the Shengyi is 55NM, for MG01_STD 37NM. The MG01_STD weighs 3kgs, the DWG22 weighs 4.5kgs.

Edited September 7, 20232 yr by Woosh

Saneagle's version is more concise but I think the gist is the same.

 

The gist is identical, you quoted the models by name, the motors they are equipped with and their respective controllers maximum amps, all that is needed and matching this statement:

 

You can quote the maximum torque of any complete bike, where motor type, wheel size, max current and voltage are fixed.

 

How concisely you posted is your prerogative of course.

.

the difference is sometimes quite striking, beside the fact that small motors suffer a lot more from overheating. Compare for example a substitution of the DWG22 with Bafang G01 (BAFANG | Motor | RM G010.250.D (bafang-e.com) ) using the same motor emulator:

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MDGWX&cont=C20&cont_b=C20&motor_b=MDGWX&batt_b=B3617_35E&batt=B3617_35E

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MG01_STD&cont=C20&cont_b=C20&motor_b=MDGWX&batt_b=B3617_35E&batt=B3617_35E

The maximum torque for the Shengyi is 55NM, for MG01_STD 37NM. The MG01_STD weighs 3kgs, the DWG22 weighs 4.5kgs.

That's very interesting - comparing for instance the Bafang G01 (std) vs G01(Fst) with a 700C wheel - the standard does get you up hills quicker but with 100W human power there is very little difference in the top speeds on the flat. However with 250 or 300 W human power the Fast does pull ahead because the std is approaching the max no load speed

The gist is not the same. There's no such thing as a 50Nm motor, but you can have a 50NM ebike. In simple terms, you can have a 50Nm bike that has a motor but you can't have a bike that has a 50Nm motor. It's the bike's control system and battery that determine how much torque you get, not the motor. The same motor with differnt bikes with different controllers with different currents will give different amounts of torque. Different motors in the same bike with the same controllers and batteries will give similar amounts of torque as long as the motors aren't fundamentally different.

 

Your pedantry is now becoming very silly. Woosh was posting the capabilities of his pedelecs, I and another saw that and appended "Likes" since his meaning was very clear.

 

Yes the post's wording could be improved for technical perfection, but I would never nitpick as you are doing, knowing as I do, and I think you do also, that Woosh is a Francophone, English with its grammar being a second language.

 

As for my vision, it's 6/6 metric, old standard 20/20 imperial. Since I've been equipped with Monovision correction I can both read small print and enjoy excellent distance sight all without any spectacles or contact lenses of any kind.

.

the difference is sometimes quite striking, beside the fact that small motors suffer a lot more from overheating. Compare for example a substitution of the DWG22 with Bafang G01 (BAFANG | Motor | RM G010.250.D (bafang-e.com) ) using the same motor emulator:

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MDGWX&cont=C20&cont_b=C20&motor_b=MDGWX&batt_b=B3617_35E&batt=B3617_35E

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MG01_STD&cont=C20&cont_b=C20&motor_b=MDGWX&batt_b=B3617_35E&batt=B3617_35E

The maximum torque for the Shengyi is 55NM, for MG01_STD 37NM. The MG01_STD weighs 3kgs, the DWG22 weighs 4.5kgs.

Of course there#'s going to be a difference when one is wound for double the speed of the other.

Your pedantry is now becoming very silly. Woosh was posting the capabilities of his pedelecs, I and another saw that and appended "Likes" since his meaning was very clear.

 

Yes the post's wording could be improved for technical perfection, but I would never nitpick as you are doing, knowing as I do, and I think you do also, that Woosh is a Francophone, English with its grammar being a second language.

 

As for my vision, it's 6/6 metric, old standard 20/20 imperial. Since I've been equipped with Monovision correction I can both read small print and enjoy excellent distance sight all without any spectacles or contact lenses of any kind.

.

Why did you have to correct the guy the other day then, Mr Pedant?

Why did you have to correct the guy the other day then, Mr Pedant?

 

I'm unaware of doing so, and a search of my recent posts hasn't enlightened me.

 

Perhaps you could furnish a link?

.

Hey all! Just wanted to say thanks for all the help again. I've ended up ordering a Camino from Woosh which I'm very excited about, should be arriving next week and hopefully I'll be comfortable riding it quickly and can start commuting with it. Maybe I can give an update once I've riden it a bit

I'm unaware of doing so, and a search of my recent posts hasn't enlightened me.

 

Perhaps you could furnish a link?

.

Post #15 in the context of the quote you included in that post.

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/new-e-bike-for-16-mile-commute.46042/?view=date#post-691366

I note that you will be using panniers - in the bikes posted above, one brand doesn't have a pannier rack (so maybe after market?), and two do BUT one of them is secured to the mudguard rather than the other one which is secured to the seat stays - stay clear of mudguard fixed versions if you want to carry anything meaningful in panniers as the fixing point won't hold firmly enough an will break.

[ATTACH type=full" width="220px" alt="53809]53809[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type=full" width="217px" alt="53810]53810[/ATTACH]

We sell both kinds. We have never had a problem with the top image type. They are solid as the bottom image type.

 

Both are good.

 

All the best, David

Post #15 in the context of the quote you included in that post.

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/new-e-bike-for-16-mile-commute.46042/?view=date#post-691366

 

Thank you for your response.

 

As I told you, I Iooked at my recent posts to find what you meant. And I had correctly guessed you might have meant this one.

 

That is not a correction of Saracen and it is in no way pedantic so an apology is due following your insult.

 

It was an answer to Saracen's rhetorical question, perhaps you missed the question mark it ended with, showing that he was looking for an explanation, rather than making a definitive statement requiring correction:

 

Surely it is the Motor that makes a difference not the battery voltage ?

 

Accordingly Saracen appreciated my answer to his undirected question and appended a "Like".

 

Had Saracen's question been in a Quote, showing who he was querying, I would have left it to that respondent. But as his posts showed he hadn't mastered the Quote system yet, leaving the question unanswered, I answered it out of empathy.

.

We sell both kinds. We have never had a problem with the top image type. They are solid as the bottom image type.

 

Both are good.

 

All the best, David

I'd argue that neither is ideal, as they both fail to provide vertical rear support for deep panniers such as Ortlieb Rollers. I had the same issue with the rear rack on my, otherwise brilliant, Cube Kathmandu.

Thanks for all the help everyone. I'm quite liking the look of the Woosh bikes, seems to have good customer support and long term reviews seem to be positive too. There are a few local bike shops in town that supply e-bikes so hopefully they might be helpful, and we get some people coming to work every week where you can take your bike and they can have a look at it too if I ever need that.

 

At this point it would be choosing between the Faro, the Camino or the Santana. I like how light the Faro is, but not sure how that would cope on any gravel or roads in worse condition.

The avaris odyssey is a bargain at the moment at £1199,(usually £2599), good spec, bafang mid drive and 20ah /720wh battery, have a look

I did a LOT of research and i would never get a hub drive only mid, I have a 750Kw hour battery and happily yes really get 50 miles and that is in HILLY Wales on 7/8/9 top end settings, I have e biked BOTH my Saracen and tomorrow Sanderson

 

Never a rear drive, can you imagine the hell getting the rear heavy wheel off in the rain with a puncture, spanners needed and unplugging the electrics, same with front hubs, with a mid drive NO problem wheels don't change, something few consider :cool::cool:

can you imagine the hell getting the rear heavy wheel off in the rain with a puncture, spanners needed and unplugging the electrics, same with front hubs, with a mid drive NO problem wheels don't change, something few consider :cool::cool:

 

You don't have to remove wheel to repair a puncture.

If you have a spanner removing wheel with motor is not that difficult. Also don't have to unplug anything.

I did a LOT of research and i would never get a hub drive only mid, I have a 750Kw hour battery and happily yes really get 50 miles and that is in HILLY Wales on 7/8/9 top end settings, I have e biked BOTH my Saracen and tomorrow Sanderson

 

Never a rear drive, can you imagine the hell getting the rear heavy wheel off in the rain with a puncture, spanners needed and unplugging the electrics, same with front hubs, with a mid drive NO problem wheels don't change, something few consider :cool::cool:

It looks like your research was a bit flawed. How many and which hub motor systems did you try?

 

You seem to be not aware about both how to avoid punctures and how to fix them. maybe a bit of research in that area might inform your opinion a bit better.

 

Also, why focus on punctures? What about snapped chains or mangled derailleurs? Both of those would leave you completely stranded with a mid motor.

....... how to avoid punctures and how to fix them ..... ...... snapped chains or mangled derailleurs?

Basic skills to fix the above that are good to have for anyone who rides their bike more than just to the local shops and back.

 

Like others on this forum who have done thousands of miles biking, I've had all of the above but in 50+ years of cycling I've had one snapped chain (easily fixed by a quick link), one bent deraileur (in the middle of some remore spot in Spain but resolved with some judiscious bending - worst case would heve been to byepass it and shorted the chain) but many many more punctures, so on balance I'd have far less hastle with a mid drive than a rear hub.

 

But of course if you don't mnd riding with those dog of tyres, the Marathon Plus, then punctures will be even less and then if you've Gaadi inner tubes you can keep the wheel in place on the odd occasion you do get a visit from the puncture fairy.