August 27, 20241 yr No there wasn't - there was 11 reported to the OPSS for starters, not including all the fires where there were no fatalities and the ones where they weren't reported to OPSS eta OPSS says 11 but this says 10 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fires-in-e-bikes-and-e-scooters/07948b8a-2855-4fd3-b205-b9b2f03b6a7c#fires-in-e-bikes-and-e-scooters-in-2023 "It must be noted that the number of fatalities/casualties covers only instances where that information was specifically disclosed to OPSS, so this might be an under-estimate." Interesting data. Yes - The figure I gave was for London I googled the subject and got an answer that only included the London data. * I had asked about the UK. *This assertion is also based on a google search.
August 27, 20241 yr Re Peter's correction to my 2023 battery fire deaths assertion, I have gone back and edited three posts that I have found where I posted the wrong figure. I didn't alter the original assertion but posted a note at the bottom saying it was wrong and giving the correct number which I understand is 11 deaths.
August 27, 20241 yr Legal obligations for protest organisers "You do not need permission from the police to protest. The Human Rights Act and Articles 10 and 11 of the ECHR mean that the police have a legal obligation to facilitate your protest. When the police are deciding how to police a protest, they should be trying their best to allow everyone to protest. Instead, you sometimes have a legal obligation to notify the police when you are organising a protest march." https://www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk/advice_information/how-to-organise-a-protest/
August 27, 20241 yr Author What about: Bram Rotthier Bram Rotthier (B) is LEVA-EU’s technical director and board member. As a technical engineer, his objective within LEVA-EU is to build a bridge between members and technical regulations. He is also active in standardization and in the Motorcycle Working Group. Bram is Head of Department Energy Technology at Odisee University of Applied Sciences. Languages: Dutch, English, French and German. . OK, so a degree in languages teaches him about ebikes. Perhaps he could help the guys on this forum get their old Panasonic batteries from the German forum. At least he'll be able to tell anyone the search string, even if he doesn't know what they're for. Here he is on a so called solar powered motorbike - really?? Perhaps he thinks that thick sweaters work as lenses to harvest vast swathes of sunlight, or, worst still, his language ability is as good as his technical knowledge and failed to let him understand the difference between a solar panel and a battery: https://leva-eu.com/new-solar-powered-motorcycle-revealed-during-thick-sweater-day/ Edited August 27, 20241 yr by saneagle
August 27, 20241 yr OK, so a degree in languages teaches him about ebikes. Perhaps he could help the guys on this forum get their old Panasonic batteries from the German forum. At least he'll be able to tell anyone the search string, even if he doesn't know what they're for. Here he is on a so called solar powered motorbike - really?? Perhaps he thinks that thick sweaters work as lenses to harvest vast swathes of sunlight, or, worst still, his language ability is as good as his technical knowledge and failed to let him understand the difference between a solar panel and a battery: https://leva-eu.com/new-solar-powered-motorcycle-revealed-during-thick-sweater-day/ "e-motorcycle, powered by a solar-power charged battery." .
August 27, 20241 yr Author "e-motorcycle, powered by a solar-power charged battery." . This is the difference between an engineer and a cunning linguist. The engineer would say that the bike is powered by a battery. The bike has no idea and doesn't care whether the sun is out or not, as it has no solar panels of its own. You can just as easily argue that your ebike is nuclear powered if you live in North Wales or Dungerness. All my summer electricity comes from solar panels. Does that mean I should tell everyone that the cadence sensors on my bikes are solar powered? You could also argue that everything you and me have and do, is solar powered, since all our energy comes from the sun except that generated by nuclear power stations, which probably never comes near us. Edited August 27, 20241 yr by saneagle
August 27, 20241 yr is worth pointing out how uncommon our position is. Yes, of course. Brits do things differently to entire world. It goes without saying. I am just pointing out that it doesn't make much sense. Why it is OK to sell illegal bikes and illegal scooters with a note "it is illegal to use on road" and it is illegal to sell guns at Tesco? We can always add a note "it is against the law to shoot corrupted politicians and their lawyers". In my humble opinion cyclists should be involved in writing legislation, not those who want to make money on cyclists.
August 27, 20241 yr In my humble opinion cyclists should be involved in writing legislation, not those who want to make money on cyclists. They are, but they are not the only voice and opinion. Nor are cyclists and e-bikers of one opinion, very far from it as all cycling forums show. And you were commenting on the sale of e-scooters. Should cyclists make e-scooter law? Should vested interests alone make any law? I think not. .
August 28, 20241 yr I have no time for protecting people who are not either simple minded or children. People should protect themselves. It is people like you that caused the death of Jordan Lyon in Wigan when two PCSOs failed to enter a pond to save him and his sister who were in the pond struggling. They stood by and watched him drown; watched while two OAPs entered the water and saved his sister and tried to save him. They were so steeped in the Precautionary Principle and Health and Safety garbage that they were unable to act. https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/sep/21/1 The same thing killed children at the Ariana Grande bombing when no one from the emergency services would enter the building while people - mostly little girls bled to death and could have been saved. The obsession with health and safety is a total blight on our society and any sense that people have agency and responsibility for what they do. This article is over 17 years old!!! Surely you can find a more recent example to support your premise of an obsession with health and safety as a total blight on our society?
August 28, 20241 yr This article is over 17 years old!!! Surely you can find a more recent example to support your premise of an obsession with health and safety as a total blight on our society? Not at all. Does an obvious truth need to be supported by something that happened yesterday? I think not. Instructions given to police and emergency health personnel right now involve them protecting themselves above all else. Many of the wounded at the Ariana Grande bombing were left unhelped by the official emergency responders after the explosion, while injured but mobile survivors tended to them. Some of the victims were allowed to bleed to death by ambulance workers who were waiting outside. I was brought up by a family all of whom that were of age, had served in WW2 including my mother - though her 'action' was as a radio operator. They were well versed in knowing what there duty was when courage was needed. That original article let's remind ourselves referred to people employed as PCSOs who stood and watched two children in a pond a few feet deep drowning, while OAP fishermen waded in and fished out one of them. The other drowned. The health and safety obsession in the public sector is a nightmare.
August 28, 20241 yr That original article let's remind ourselves referred to people employed as PCSOs who stood and watched two children in a pond a few feet deep drowning, while OAP fishermen waded in and fished out one of them. The other drowned. The health and safety obsession in the public sector is a nightmare. I've just re-read that 17 year old newspaper report plus another report that fleshes out the story which is not as you represented it. The PCSOs didn't stand around watching a child drown. They arrived after the fishermen aged 63 & 68 (so only one OAP not two) had fished out the female. The pond was not "a few feet deep" but 6'5" deep which is why the fishermen couldn't wade in to pull out the boy. There was no sign of the boy when the PCSOs arrived. My conclusion is that the 10 year old boy died because his parents allowed him & his sister aged 8, brothers aged 8 & 10 & other sister aged 5 to play unsupervised at this dangerous pool. Whatever the PCSOs did or didn't do had no effect on the outcome. https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/hero-10-died-saving-sister-1004310
August 28, 20241 yr I've just re-read that 17 year old newspaper report plus another report that fleshes out the story which is not as you represented it. The PCSOs didn't stand around watching a child drown. They arrived after the fishermen aged 63 & 68 (so only one OAP not two) had fished out the female. The pond was not "a few feet deep" but 6'5" deep which is why the fishermen couldn't wade in to pull out the boy. There was no sign of the boy when the PCSOs arrived. My conclusion is that the 10 year old boy died because his parents allowed him & his sister aged 8, brothers aged 8 & 10 & other sister aged 5 to play unsupervised at this dangerous pool. Whatever the PCSOs did or didn't do had no effect on the outcome. https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/hero-10-died-saving-sister-1004310 This story reminds me the current debate in the USA about whether US government should lean on X to stop misinformation. Biden's government put pressure on FB to stop Covid misinformation. I reckon Musk would not dare coming here.
August 28, 20241 yr This story reminds me the current debate in the USA about whether US government should lean on X to stop misinformation. Biden's government put pressure on FB to stop Covid misinformation. I reckon Musk would not dare coming here. Misinfomation is fake news created & spread by a mistake – by someone who doesn’t realise that it’s false. Disinformation is fake news that is created and spread deliberately by someone who knows full well that it’s false. In this case it's clearly DISinformation i.e. deliberate lies like alleging "PCSOs who stood and watched two children in a pond a few feet deep drowning, while OAP fishermen waded in and fished out one of them" when even a cursory reading of the original newspaper report shows that this is not what happened at all. Edited August 28, 20241 yr by nigelbb
August 28, 20241 yr Author Misinfomation is fake news created & spread by a mistake – by someone who doesn’t realise that it’s false. Disinformation is fake news that is created and spread deliberately by someone who knows full well that it’s false. In this case it's clearly DISinformation i.e. deliberate lies like alleging "PCSOs who stood and watched two children in a pond a few feet deep drowning, while OAP fishermen waded in and fished out one of them" when even a cursory reading of the original newspaper report shows that this is not what happened at all. You weren't there, and you have no idea of what actually happened. It's just a case of who's version of the "truth" you choose to believe after every guity person tried to bend it to cover themselves and others bend it in the direction to suit their own narratives. You might just as well start your own thread about whether we live in a simulation or a reality, or whether god is male or female. Why don't you stick to things that you actually know about?
August 28, 20241 yr You weren't there, and you have no idea of what actually happened. It's just a case of who's version of the "truth" you choose to believe after every guity person tried to bend it to cover themselves and others bend it in the direction to suit their own narratives. You might just as well start your own thread about whether we live in a simulation or a reality, or whether god is male or female. Why don't you stick to things that you actually know about? I'm not the one pushing lies to support my thesis that there is an obsession with health and safety in the public sector. I just read the news reports & saw hat I had been lied to by [uSER=46203]@Ghost1951[/uSER]
August 28, 20241 yr Author I'm not the one pushing lies to support my thesis that there is an obsession with health and safety in the public sector. I just read the news reports & saw hat I had been lied to by [uSER=46203]@Ghost1951[/uSER] You're doing exactly the same as what you accuse others of. Some people would call that hypocracy. If you were at the pond and witnessed the drowning and the events around it, you would be in a position to say who was telling lies and who wasn't, but you weren't there. You showed the news article that supported your opinion, when you have no idea whether it's factual or not. It could be you that's lying.
August 28, 20241 yr Misinfomation is fake news created & spread by a mistake – by someone who doesn’t realise that it’s false. Disinformation is fake news that is created and spread deliberately by someone who knows full well that it’s false. In this case it's clearly DISinformation i.e. deliberate lies like alleging "PCSOs who stood and watched two children in a pond a few feet deep drowning, while OAP fishermen waded in and fished out one of them" when even a cursory reading of the original newspaper report shows that this is not what happened at all. Disinormation is already punishable in law, misinformation can usually be moderated by the platform itself. On COVID, the boundary between mis- and disinformation can be very blurred. I know a person suffering long COVID. She is a friend of my family for nearly 50 years, I am certain that what she describes is real. Long covid is very real. So when someone reported that the vaccine can cause harm, I have no reason to treat that as mis- or disinformation. It's just an example.
August 28, 20241 yr Author Disinormation is already punishable in law, misinformation can usually be moderated by the platform itself. On COVID, the boundary between mis- and disinformation can be very blurred. I know a person suffering long COVID. She is a friend of my family for nearly 50 years, I am certain that what she describes is real. Long covid is very real. The problem with moderation is that the moderators can be biased, unfair, misinformed themselves or even guilty of making disinformation. Look what happened with the Hunter Biden laptop story, where Zuckerberg admits that they suppressed it, even though it was true, and he's now appologised for that. Also, he admitted to and appologised for wrongly moderating Covid information. If you mentioned HQ or IVM, you got an instant ban, even though those things might have saved millions of lives. The logical and sensible way to deal with these things is to have open debate and free speech. That's how science always used to work.
August 28, 20241 yr I believe a cabal of vested interests is making uninformed decisions to poison us all with toxic ewaste. Make all ebikes easy for owners to repair FFS!
August 28, 20241 yr I note he ignored the Ariana Grande remarks. No - the PCSOs, shouldn't have got involved. If I had come across that scene, I'd have done what the police officer did when he came and got stuck in. Thanks goodness not all police are as risk averse as those PCSOs. However - he had been 'water trained' so he wasn't risking being in trouble from his bosses, and only faced the risk of the water. If I could be bothered I could trawl the internet for other examples. I have seen a few beyond the Ariana Grande one where emergency service people were kept back while victims died. Just take a look at this account from a firefighter who along with his colleagues was disgusted at being kept away from the Manchester Arena for two hours, while casualties who desperately needed help were held back because one of their commanders was risk averse. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-56241659
August 28, 20241 yr I'm not the one pushing lies to support my thesis that there is an obsession with health and safety in the public sector. I just read the news reports & saw hat I had been lied to by [uSER=46203]@Ghost1951[/uSER] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-56241659 https://www.ft.com/content/250bc900-3145-11e8-b5bf-23cb17fd1498 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6363d508e90e0705a935f36d/MAI-Vol2-_Part_i_Accessible_.pdf Lied to? You must be insane or have had your head stuffed down the toilet for about a decade if you don't already know that the public sector is utterly obsessed with health and safety and has disappeared into a morasse of accronyms. Read that government report and see how far you get before you are lost in a sea of gobbledegook acronyms. No wonder they didn't evacuate the Manchester Arena victims for about two hours. They must have all been lost in the paperwork of who was in charge and whether it was safe to go inside. That said - a handful of people British Transport Police in particular and about one paramedic got stuck in while the vast panoply of the British Public Sector police, ambulance and fire and rescue waited two miles away discussing who was in charge.
August 28, 20241 yr Author This is absolutely shocking. People talk about misinformation and disinformation. Look how it works here, and if you think you get your news from trusted sources, have a look and see what they said about the Hunter Biden laptop back in 2020, which has now been confirmed as absolutely true, and they knew it at the time because the FBI had the actual laptop, which was given to them by the repair shop owner after making copies of the hard disc. And, there was that letter signed by 50 top security service personnel that said it was Russian disinformation. I'll save you some trouble. This is what The Guardian said: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/19/hunter-biden-story-big-tech-facebook-twitter How the BBC treated it: Edited August 28, 20241 yr by saneagle
August 28, 20241 yr "40 percent of e-bike explosions in London caused by unsafe battery packs" https://business.itn.co.uk/diy-e-bike-conversion-kits-are-the-uks-fastest-growing-fire-risk/
August 28, 20241 yr Author "40 percent of e-bike explosions in London caused by unsafe battery packs" https://business.itn.co.uk/diy-e-bike-conversion-kits-are-the-uks-fastest-growing-fire-risk/ Woosh, I wouldn't get too excited. Your kits will probably be the first to get axed.
August 28, 20241 yr "40 percent of e-bike explosions in London caused by unsafe battery packs" 60% is caused by safe battery packs?
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