April 27, 20242 yr How 17.08mph would be a pass when limit is 15.5? 15.5 mph is your limit, not what's written in EN15194. If your bike has a certificate of compliance for EN15194, it's legal. You will see that many very expensive mid-drive ebikes assist over 15.5 mph. Do you think that they're illegal?
April 27, 20242 yr 15.5 mph is your limit, not what's written in EN15194. If your bike has a certificate of compliance for EN15194, it's legal. SW has certificate and a dongle. Is his bike legal? You will see that many very expensive mid-drive ebikes assist over 15.5 mph. Do you think that they're illegal? Yes, that is exactly what I think. As far as I remember law requires motor to stop assisting at 25km/h. There is nothing written there about where wheels should be - on road or in the air. In case of a bike we are talking about, motor clearly keeps assisting to at least 30km/h ergo it is illegal. As always we need [mention=4]flecc[/mention] to clarify
April 27, 20242 yr How 17.08mph would be a pass when limit is 15.5? The DfT have confirmed that the usual 10% tolerance allowed on speed limits also applies to the EAPC assist limit. The strictest interpretation of the original 25kph law plus 10% allows 17.08762 mph. .
April 27, 20242 yr It's the same as throttles and the 250w power limit. People get an idea in their head about what they think the law is or should be instead of studying what it actually is.
April 27, 20242 yr The DfT have confirmed that the usual 10% tolerance allowed on speed limits also applies to the EAPC limit. The strictest interpretation of the original 25kph law plus 10% allows 17.08762 mph. . I understand it is a tolerance left for inaccuracy of measurement while speed is measured on the road for example by speed cameras. In this case bike clearly knows what is its speed and it keeps assisting anyway. Is it still legal?
April 27, 20242 yr Is it still legal? Yes, there is no such set of conditions applied to the tolerance. It can of course be the tolerance for the bike to get it wrong. .
April 27, 20242 yr Yes, there is no such set of conditions applied to the tolerance. It can of course be the tolerance for the bike to get it wrong. . Thank you for clarification. I still think it is lame though. If 17.08mph is the legal speed limit it should be clearly written in the law. Not 15.5mph and wink wink nudge nudge minister said something different.
April 27, 20242 yr Thank you for clarification. I still think it is lame though. If 17.08mph is the legal speed limit it should be clearly written in the law. Not 15.5mph and wink wink nudge nudge minister said something different. I don't agree. The government quite rightly recognises that perfect accuracy is nigh on an impossibility, so it's unreasonable to expect it of designers, manufacturers, owners, police or even courts, so the 10% is to deal with that human factor intruding, no matter where it occurs. Of course it isn't cumulative, it's just the one 10% for whoever's error. .
April 27, 20242 yr Thank you for clarification. I still think it is lame though. If 17.08mph is the legal speed limit it should be clearly written in the law. Not 15.5mph and wink wink nudge nudge minister said something different. Then you'd need to add a tolerance for accuracy of measurement and you'd be back to where you started, except 1.5 mph higher.
April 27, 20242 yr Dutch Police seem to have a gadget for testing speed under load: Article here: https://www.eta.co.uk/2024/02/08/police-roadside-test-to-uncover-illegal-e-bikes/ Fine is €250 which is rather more lenient than having your bike taken away.
April 27, 20242 yr Dutch Police seem to have a gadget for testing speed under load: [ATTACH type=full" alt="57452]57452[/ATTACH] Article here: https://www.eta.co.uk/2024/02/08/police-roadside-test-to-uncover-illegal-e-bikes/ Fine is €250 which is rather more lenient than having your bike taken away. The article made me cringe. Why do they always add the word "continuous", as in maximum continuous rated power? In that context, continuous has no meaning, as the rating of the motor can't change, so it's always continuous. It's the same as saying the continuous colour of the front light needs to be white or the continuous brakes must work.
April 27, 20242 yr The article made me cringe. Why do they always add the word "continuous", as in maximum continuous rated power? In that context, continuous has no meaning, as the rating of the motor can't change, so it's always continuous. It's the same as saying the continuous colour of the front light needs to be white or the continuous brakes must work. It's what the laws say that they are repeating: From the original EAPC law of 1983: 2. In these Regulations— “continuous rated output” has the same meaning as in the 1971 British Standard; And from the Two and Three Wheeled Type Approval law exemption for EAPCs: (h) pedal cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of less than or equal to 250 W, where the output of the motor is cut off when the cyclist stops pedalling and is otherwise progressively reduced and finally cut off before the vehicle speed reaches 25 km/h. .
April 27, 20242 yr The article made me cringe. Why do they always add the word "continuous", as in maximum continuous rated power? In that context, continuous has no meaning, as the rating of the motor can't change, so it's always continuous. It's the same as saying the continuous colour of the front light needs to be white or the continuous brakes must work. I thought it meant max power in thermal equilibrium, as opposed to a peak power that would eventually cause the motor to overheat (critically the regs don't specify the speed :- just about any motor would overheat at 250 watts if it's going slow enough)
May 2, 20241 yr Author If you wanted to derestrift, you should have asked before you bought the bike. Some are easier than others. If you're any good ar electronics, you can hack the speed signal with a frequency divider, and if you're good with electrical stuff, you can replace the controller and LCD, otherwise you'd have to try inviting the Wisper guys to a party with lots of free alcohol and unde-rage girls, then blackmail them for the unlock sequence the next day; however, I don't think it would work because they're wise to people trying those sort of things.
May 2, 20241 yr The article made me cringe. Why do they always add the word "continuous", as in maximum continuous rated power? In that context, continuous has no meaning, as the rating of the motor can't change, so it's always continuous. It's the same as saying the continuous colour of the front light needs to be white or the continuous brakes must work. Aye but in the context of bikes motors In machinery, continuous rating is more about its heavy duty so can be in operation all day, every day, for years. Hobby rated, where the machine is going to be switched on for under 30 mins, or trade/industrial rated where the machine gets switched on at 8am and either switched off at 5pm or in some big industry operation only gets switched off for maintenance. Just being pedantic.... sorry:D
May 2, 20241 yr I thought it meant max power in thermal equilibrium, as opposed to a peak power that would eventually cause the motor to overheat (critically the regs don't specify the speed :- just about any motor would overheat at 250 watts if it's going slow enough) You have continuous power, maximum continuous power and rated power. Rated power is the maximum continuos power with an added safety margin, which is whatever the engineer decides is necessary. There is no such thing as thermal equilibrium for an electric motor because it changes with speed. When they test that a motor complies with its rating, they first determine the RPM for optimal efficiency, then test it at that RPM. In that case a motor would overheat if it's max continuous power was the same as its rated power because at any other RPM, it would produce more heat and thus exceed thermal equilibrium. As I said, the term " continuous rated power" has no meaning. They could just as well write it as the "always rated power" or the "written in the specification rated power" because the rated power can never change. In the context of an ebike, a motor in a hub can run with an efficiency of around 75% at 15 mph, but when climbing a hill, its efficiency can drop to 30% or lower, when it's producimg nearly three times the heat as it was at 15 mph. The maximum continuous power is tested at the equivalent of 15mph. Edited May 2, 20241 yr by saneagle
May 2, 20241 yr all what matters is the most amount of power and if you dont do as you are told we will use this power to blow you off the face of the earth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNAgFhh1ji4
May 3, 20241 yr NO sympathy That's slower than you ? https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/5-separate-punctures-on-a-14-mile-journey-home.46592/post-700902
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