Battery Baffler

[DaveSickofthis]

HI
I have a Lifecycle Mountain Sport with a Samsung 37v 18Ah Battery similar to the image below
Everything was fine until I came back from a ride and went to charge it (3 Bars left off 4)
Normally when you plugged the charger in - a red light comes on, then when the mains are plugged in the charger starts up (Noisy fan type) and Knocks off and Green light comes on when fully charged
Only this time when I plugged the battery in there was no red light - So plugged in mains and both lights came on but charger not running! Just like it was fully charged - So I took it out again and ran the battery down to 2 Bars but of course that did nothing and green light on charger still showing
The top battery indicator is also showing red - In the manual it does say some of these have a sleep mode and can be brought in and out of sleep by holding it down bla bla but that does nothing
At this point I was not sure whether it could be a battery or charger fault - I have a spare charger which is one of those silent ones but that show a green light as well although I can hear it running but still fails to charge it even when left on all night
Luckily (Or not in this case lol) I also have a spare battery so went out for a ride as this also showed full but it was anyway - And lo and behold - Came back 3 Bars - No red light and Green when mains on but no charging
So got on to bike company and they said sounds like charger so bought a new one (Later silent type) Still no joy - Green light showing fully charged!
So only conclusion I can come to is that the original charger was faulty and somehow tripped something in the batteries? I have absolutely no idea about anything electrical but mechanically sound
Be grateful if anybody has any ideas?
Thanks in advance
Dave

 

[wheeliepete]

Have you checked the lock is in ON position?

 

[DaveSickofthis]

Hi Pete
Thanks for your quick reply
Do you mean the lock on the ignition that hols the battery into the rail? Yes thats ok as it has to be on to turn the ignition or is there one I dont know about?
Cheers
Dave

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Did you check the charge fuses in the battery. It's the one under the handle.

 

[DaveSickofthis]

Hi d8
Thanks for your reply - OMG That sounds promising Ive just looked and see the thing I wil undo it and have a look

 

[Danidl]

Green light on charger means it's plugged in but not driving current into a load.. the battery. .. conclusion no conducting path between charger and battery.
Red light on battery means it is discharged..
In order of simplicity and cost....
Bad contact on charger output or bad wire .. check voltage accross pins on charger connector.
Switch contacts on bike
Fuse in wiring to battery
Broken wiring inside battery.

 

[DaveSickofthis]

Did you check the charge fuses in the battery. It's the one under the handle.

Hi
Yep there are 2 on each battery a big one and little one but I dont know if they are blown or not they dont look like it but then again what do I know I cant even wire a plug lol
Where do I get these from?

 

[DaveSickofthis]

Green light on charger means it's plugged in but not driving current into a load.. the battery. .. conclusion no conducting path between charger and battery.
Red light on battery means it is discharged..
In order of simplicity and cost....
Bad contact on charger output or bad wire .. check voltage accross pins on charger connector.
Switch contacts on bike
Fuse in wiring to battery
Broken wiring inside battery.

I have 3 chargers it cant be all of them so thats not it
Dont know how to check voltage

 

[DaveSickofthis]

Did you check the charge fuses in the battery. It's the one under the handle.

Hi Ive just tried silver paper off a packet of tea and there is still no joy
Unless I need to buy new fuses from somewhere?
Do you know anywhere I can get them checked without being ripped off? The Batteries not the fuses haha I live in Rochdale but cant find anywhere online - Thats how I got to this forum lol
Whats annoyed me is that the bike seller/manufacturer did not mention these fuses and said to post the batteries to them in Southampton! They repair them so why did they not mention the fuses so I dont trust them obviously
Cheers
Dave

 

[DaveSickofthis]

What is it in the Battery that tells the charger it is fully charged?
Can that not be the fault?
Cheers
Dave

 

[Danidl]

Any of those very cheap digital multimeters from most hardware suppliers eg B&Q or halfords or Maplin at 8quid up will be perfectly good and will check fuses etc as well. No home should be without one...
Usually a blown fuse in a glass bulb is self evident, there will be grey deposit inside the glass , indicating that the metal vapourised or the link will be evidently broken
If you want to use the silver foil trick, you need to use kitchen aluminium foil or that from a bar of Cadbury chocolate. Not recommending it. But foil from walkers Crisps etc is only a vapourised layer and insulating.

 

[Danidl]

What is it in the Battery that tells the charger it is fully charged?
Can that not be the fault?
Cheers
Dave

Nothing in the battery tells it so. There is a current measuring circuit in the charger, which causes it's red light to come on when the battery is drawing charging current. But when it's fully charged or disconnected, there is no current.

 

[DaveSickofthis]

Any of those very cheap digital multimeters from most hardware suppliers eg B&Q or halfords or Maplin at 8quid up will be perfectly good and will check fuses etc as well. No home should be without one...
Usually a blown fuse in a glass bulb is self evident, there will be grey deposit inside the glass , indicating that the metal vapourised or the link will be evidently broken

Hi Dani
Thanks for your reply but I tried silver paper that should have worked?
Like I say I have dismissed the chargers as I have 3 of those so it must be something in the batteries surely? What is baffling is why 2 perfectly good batteries should both develop the same fault - There are 2 lights on this charger The red light on the original charger was just when I put the plug in the battery it always stayed on - and was just to show the connection I think IT was on when the battery is fully charged The green light is a seperate one There was no red light for a low battery - It was either off or green
Cheers
Dave

 

[DaveSickofthis]

I have ordered a new long distance battery and that is being built - I suppose I should wait till I get this sometime this week I hope - If that does not charge and it is another faulty charger they sent grrr

 

[Danidl]

I have ordered a new long distance battery and that is being built - I suppose I should wait till I get this sometime this week I hope - If that does not charge and it is another faulty charger they sent grrr

Better to light a candle than curse the darkness... Get a cheap and cheerful digital multimeter dmm.
Electrical problems are just like mechanical problems , just easier but without a meter one is totally blind. You can see as mechanism move or fail to engage, you cannot see current or voltage without a meter.

 

[DaveSickofthis]

Better to light a candle than curse the darkness... Get a cheap and cheerful digital multimeter dmm.
Electrical problems are just like mechanical problems , just easier but without a meter one is totally blind. You can see as mechanism move or fail to engage, you cannot see current or voltage without a meter.

Hi Dani
I was just hoping that it would be a part I could get lol
Even if I bought a meter I would not have a clue what to do with it and it would never get used again - I could check the fuses but have no clue how to check anything else - What do you mean take the batteries apart or something - There are just some connectors at the bottom of it but they are only if its on the bike surely

 

[DaveSickofthis]

Plan B - I will wait till I get my new battery (I bought it cuz Im sick of lugging 2 batteries around anyway ) If that charges up ok and it gets the charger out of the equation
Would anybody on here think they could fix the battery faults if I sent them to you? If so you can just send me 1 back and keep the other for payment
I would only need 1 in case I sell the bike

 

[Danidl]

Hi Dani
I was just hoping that it would be a part I could get lol
Even if I bought a meter I would not have a clue what to do with it and it would never get used again - I could check the fuses but have no clue how to check anything else - What do you mean take the batteries apart or something - There are just some connectors at the bottom of it but they are only if its on the bike surely

Look measuring voltage is as difficult as turning the device in, switching it to volt DC and connecting the two probes . The voltage appears on the display.
Measuring whether the fuses are ok is as simple as turning it on , switching to resistance scale , connecting the two probes ,accross the ends of the fuse, when disconnected from any thing else.a good fuse will have a resistance less than a a few ohms. A blown fuse will be mega ohms or actually infinite...
Once you have a meter, more uses will crop up

 

[Danidl]

Look measuring voltage is as difficult as turning the device in, switching it to volt DC and connecting the two probes . The voltage appears on the display.
Measuring whether the fuses are ok is as simple as turning it on , switching to resistance scale , connecting the two probes ,accross the ends of the fuse, when disconnected from any thing else.a good fuse will have a resistance less than a a few ohms. A blown fuse will be mega ohms or actually infinite...
Once you have a meter, more uses will crop up

The battery pack is a pretty complicated . There are probably 40 cells wired in blocks of 10 in series and 3 or 4 groups in parallel. They are normally spot-welded together and then wrapped in tape. Dismantling this pile is feasible but hardworking and reassembly pretty difficult without a welder. Soldering is invariably unsatisfactory...

 

[DaveSickofthis]

Look measuring voltage is as difficult as turning the device in, switching it to volt DC and connecting the two probes . The voltage appears on the display.
Measuring whether the fuses are ok is as simple as turning it on , switching to resistance scale , connecting the two probes ,accross the ends of the fuse, when disconnected from any thing else.a good fuse will have a resistance less than a a few ohms. A blown fuse will be mega ohms or actually infinite...
Once you have a meter, more uses will crop up

lol Yeh thanks but you lost me just testing a fuse with ohms and stuff- But my point is as I have not got a clue what I'm looking at then what am I actually testing for and what would I do with the results? Ok a fuse can be changed but does silver paper not work? The only time Ive changed a fuse I took it out of another plug but these are 1 longer than that and one diddy one so the plug idea didnt work - A meter to me is the same as saying get a scalpel and do your own surgery