Even worse perhaps.. 28 guys in a Bar, three or four of them are buying the drinks, the rest happily getting sloshed - one of the buyers want's to go home. The rest carry on drinking for the next ten years having extracted the bar bill from the guy that went home. Not all 27 make it to ten years for one reason or another.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Hardly a fair judgement. The Czech Republic, Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and Slovenia have been making larger profits for richer EU countries as cheap manufacturing centres, particularly for cars.
Slovakia for example with only 5 millions population produce well over 1 million cars a year. If the UK did the same, we'd be making well over 13 million cars a year instead of our 2 million.
You need to reassess who is supporting who in the EU, instead of relying on Brexit myths and fantasies.
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That's as good a generalisation as saying that each Tory Government is followed by one that spends more than we have. Incoming Tory Government clears the debt, creates a surplus only to be succeeded by another lot who spend, spend, spend until they get kicked out. Incoming Tories inherit an almighty deficit from the preceding lot... and on it goes. It always takes longer to clear the debt than it does to create one and the 'people' a). don't like the pain and b). eventually believe that anything is better than this (the pain) and the whole cycle starts over again.
So what happens when the likes of Slovakia have acquired the skills to make their own cars and retain the profits?
Absolutely nothing in a post-brexit world. But how would the EU cope with true free-trade. As it stands it is simply bringing everyone down to an equal level. It will be down of course in an internal market.
The Tories including Theresa May are being controlled by 80 (maybe only 50) hard right members.....we know who they are....Rees-Mogg,Bone,IDS,Redwood.....note I don't include Boris,he will change sides to who seems the winner.
The 'bastards' as Cameron called them don't want to be in the limelight,they are happy to control May and steer her....look at how aggressive May reacted to the Labour lady who accused her of being a right wing puppet....her reaction 'you don't realise how wrong you are' .Which suggests to me that May is constantly battling against the pressure from the right wingers.
What intrigues me is what is the pressure that these MPs can exert ? It must be considerable because Cameron buckled under the pressure,which caused him to call the referendum in the first place.
What also intrigues me is the stupidity of so many Leave voters who are letting these right wingers steer our country to a position which will only benefit the very rich and yet they see Brexit as a mechanism that will lift their current poor lifestyle.
The 'bastards' seem willing to let our country go down the pan as long as their selfish agenda is achieved,they seem to want to take us back to their halcyon days of the 1930's.
It's about time May got strong and told us what pressure these right wingers are exerting upon her,assuming she is not part of the club,and stood up for our country rather than her personal situation. She could do that by announcing a second referendum.
KudosDave
So the major players in EU are utilising cheap labour in minor ones and in.mean time making massive profits out of the workers. Is that part of your EU social caring flecc ? You should ask yourself why those areas were targeted and then ask yourself why cost of living is what it is across the various states in EU. There is a lot of economic posturing and planning across eu to keep lower paid ( and migrants?) away from certain areas and jobs. Yes, in theory anybody can live anywhere, in reality that is far from the case. There is an expanding economic divide across the EU. Investigate exactly where you could move to...not in theory...but I practice. I,ll bet my last pound sterling you will not be rubbing shoulders with the likes of Junker or Barnier...( but fair point neither will you with Cameron etal) Its made out the EU is some caring socially minded superstate. Look around flecc. It is not..it is equally as bad as the groups you ,Tom and OG despise. Its probably worse, at least Cameron and Osborne don't pretend to be socialists.
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Economic sense or economic argument - would you listen or simply pour scorn? - is there any point to this, why do you ask? It should be obvious to anyone what the arguments are, from both sides. That doesn't make either of us right - does it? Or wrong either come to that, but we all have our viewpoint. The real interesting bit is where and what formed those views?
And is exactly what has happened with Ireland, we were once great beneficiaries, used monies to build infrastructure...( Then went wild), but are now net contributors.
Not so. Having shown how life has got better for half the countries that Woosh quoted, you tentatively agreed with the proposal of one doing even better by wholely making their own cars.
All of which shows the EU is working to improve life for the newer entrants who are willing to improve their lot. Brexiters should stop obsessing about those like Greece and Spain who are too corrupt and incompetent to seize the opportunity they were given by the EU. Eventually they will improve or be dumped. Meanwhile they aren't numerous or large enough singly or together to bring down the EU, or even appreciably harm it.
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I do agree, absolutely and I think I said that in reply to Woosh? There's an element of pyramid selling in all of this and as with all such schemes they come to an end at some point in the future. There is only the one market in the EU although I concede that the poorer countries will be buying more cars, that's what allows this to begin.
Sounds a lot like Conservative policy to me
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Or drive deliberately over a cliff edge on the basis of a Bet?
What kind of logic is that?
You carefully ignored this prior answer. It's the stepping stone, the opportunity to improve their lot which most have successfully seized. Just look at how much their wages have risen since joining the EU. But I doubt you will, like most Brexiters you hate the truth.
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You are entirely missing the point deliberately, as we will have a stake in the returns if we achieve a trade agreement.
If there was any truth in this, there would never have been improvement in life for any of us. We grow and enrich each other through progress.
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lovely Urban mths you are peddling there. Brown was running a surplus till the bankers cocked everything up and these present clowns are driving us further into debt after it was necessary to bail them out.
Tories inherited "an almighty deficit from the BANKERS
And since new labour were in fact employing Conservative economic policies, just what point are you tring to make?
Unless it is the obvious one that no matter who employs Conservative policies, they will still fail, and punish the public as they do.
Poland is not a minor player, Czech republic was always the power house of quality manufacture in the Iron Curtain days. The key point rather should be how much new infrastructure are these countries gaining, how much new technology are they picking up, how more prosperous are their people becoming. The shareholders of the German and French companies are happier, more money is going into their pension funds, as their populations age. This is a win, win, win situation. Zathlan you are continuing to confuse the social responsibilities of the EU as an organisation, which has promoted fair trading, fairer work practices and better educational opportunities in all the member states, with the role of private enterprise.
But and this is a major but, the social engagement is limited by what the member nation is prepared to accept. It is a carrot and stick. The stick , which is the ECJ is available only when a state refuses to something they had already agreed to implement. The carrot in the form of grants and subsidies, is when they undertake a voluntary activity ... Such as ERASMUS programmes. Compare and contrast the number of projects in UK provinces and in other European countries with which you may be familiar , where there is 1. An EU flag and 2 a plaque saying this project was supported by... EU programme xxxxx.
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