the brexit movement is/was blatantly xenophobic. you don't do yourself any favours by trying to make my comments about it comments about the uk. that deliberate attempt at distortion on your part really does say a great deal about you. trying to ascribe to me your own xenophobic prejudice won't wash here. perhaps you should try to write to the sun or the express. the kind of attempted smearing you engage in may have more of an audience there.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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oh now i most certainly will: go on...smear away brexitter, show us all the ugliness that's behind that fake "rational" tory mask..
Now I may not know much about economics, but I can follow a logic like this. If a country is a nett importer , and it's currency drops in value by 10%, then it will cost 10% more to import the same quantity of goods.
The goods that that country produces from totally internal sources, will cost 10% less to produce , so presumably can be sold at 90% of the previous price abroad, and still make a profit. So if they only sell the same amount they are on aggregate 20% worse off
It is only if they can sell 20% more are they in the same position as they were initially via balance of payments.
So the workers in that country must produce 20% more productivity to stand still. If it's a good deal, how do the workers see that.....
Unfortunately there are large portions of your country where the people are very racist and xenophobic, it appears to be ingrained and cultural. There are also places where there is integration but mainly in the megalopolis of the south. French people are pretty much the same and I suspect that attitude is similar across Europe. Erasmus and other EU policies are helping to change those attitudes, we need more integration not less.
You also need a government capable of governing to fix the "unplanned large scale immigration" problems. Seen from the outside your administration appears to be of the highest incompetence.
Whether you Peter, have or do not have a racist bone in your body, is perhaps irrelevant, what is objectively true is that part of the leave campaign centred on an England for the English narrative. The posters indicated so, the constant reference to " them" indicated it, and increases in sectarian violence proved it. The levels of discomfort experienced by non native ie commonwealth and European born workers within the NHS was palpable particularly after the result was known. The amount of official condemnation of such as paltry. It was left to middle management to attempt as well as they could to reassure their non UK born staff, that they were valuable.
Then the crass and illegal bullying of numbers of EU citizens, by your department home affairs , sending insensitive letters instructing them to leave, as reported on this thread has continued to sour .
It would be a brave man indeed to argue that the public discourse related to immigration in the UK has been unaffected by the Brexit shambles.
Why should I be ashamed of saying something that is unarguably true? That you can neither understand or accept the truth is immaterial, I've nothing to be ashamed of in this respect.
The Leavers fundamental was to be separate from the peoples of the other 27 countries. That is either deliberately or accidentally racially discriminatory as I posted. Leavers arguments that their reasons are economic due to the EU impeding our success are made false by the successful EU nations. If Germany and others can succeed spectacularly within EU rules, so can we.
Using London as an example I can also show that large scale immigration doesn't necessarily change the nature of a country when that immigration is accepted and co-operated with. So even the argument against cultural change need have no sound basis.
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And how many of our people living in the EU who were not allowed to vote?
Difficult to get a competent administration for a batch of misfits that lose half a Billion (near as dammit mysteriously, or was it) but then, that is second only in shock value to the people who keep voting liars and swindlers back into office, thinking they will help to line their pockets as individuals with Policies that while blatantly infair, sit easily with their social prejudice against those less fortunate or ill.
When greed is your motivation justification comes easy.
It's the Tory way, always was, and will lead to disaster.
Theme song of the Conservative Voter..
"Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies."
I will respond to you Dan and having done so will probably give up on this Forum, it seems to be becoming very one dimensional and outright confrontational.. I basically agree with what you say and that is the reason why there was a distancing from the Farage machine during the campaign, it wasn't nice and was uncalled for. It's also a fact that, somewhat amazingly, over 4M people voted for his Party at one point. If nothing else that should indicate a problem, in need of a solution? On that point I am obviously at one with OG? It never was as simple as saying that immigration was the reason but it was certainly one of them. We were creating the jobs and because of the problems within the EU that naturally was an attraction. Even better most of these guys were better educated and easily found the positions they wanted. Others arrived and started their own businesses - all good? Yes, of course it is but, it puts a strain on the infrastructure and gave some of those communities a reason to feel threatened and as always, someone else, always politicians or simply agitators/activists, will seek advantage to further their own agenda.
This is life as we know it and in just the same way that the players of a losing football team begin to point their fingers at the perceived weak links this is what is happening here and now.
This is not the best way to act. We should be able to express our views in a respectful way and expect an answer in the same vein. Far too much screaming going on here, not unlike a mob of football supporters or even worse. I don't know and I certainly don't want to know. I'm off to write a book!
So by your standards all remainers are bigots, because you certainly sound like one.
I,m not writing a book ( actually another) I,m going back to beach.. In Spain now.
methinks the lady doth protest too much. are you really going back to the living room of a one bed in Watford and is that book an imaginary construct?
for a more balanced adult response, most brexiteers I've spoken too invariably speak about immigration. much as you and peter have. and most when challenged with facts that contradict their assertion that immigration was the reason for the suffering of the poor in uk become defensive. the reason for the suffering of the poor tin the uk (lack of housing, health care, social care) is - to state the obvious - underinvestment by consecutive pro business governments who prioritise tax cuts to corporations that appoint politicians to their boards after their political careers (much as Osborne, or blair). and so it becomes a country with American levels of tax and in which thoroughly disingenuous politicians promise Swedish levels of health, social care to the citizens knowing they will blame some third party (in this case the eu, immigrants) once that becomes clearly unachievable. I feel bad for having to say all this because its become clichéd. but its nonetheless true. what you and peter have illustrated over the past two pages is how central to brexit thinking immigration is. It is a red herring. a distraction. you have been played for fools by the likes of reese mog, farage, boris, may. you shouldn't be upset with me or immigrants. I don't quite know how to get it across how much you've been manipulated by uk politicans, new labour or tory who's central agenda is about spending less on the electorate.
Of course you could always stay, and perchance do a little less screaming?
And your comments aren't really ones that can stand up to being "non confrontational and respectful" can they?
You have in fact been "Giving as good as you got" on that score.
Would you like me to quote them back at you?
Still you have given Zlatan a bit of company and added a comedy element, so good luck with the book.
As for Zlatan you have to laugh at someone who wants Brexit for everybody else but wants to build sandcastles in Spain and play with his Yellow Submarine.
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OK let me try again. Some of that makes sense but I personally do not see that blaming business helps any but, putting that aside let's look at a few facts:
First, you claim that the EU has the answer, really?
https://insp.ngo/alarming-trend-shows-homelessness-crisis-across-europe/
Seems to me that whilst the UK is far from being anywhere near good, Germany and France to name but two are far worse. Only Finland seems to have the answer.
If you want to compare try this site
https://homelessworldcup.org/homelessness-statistics/
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S
So I,ll sit on beach , watch sun go down and think of Hull...
Anyways...seems remainers cant debate without insult. Good luck with book Peter.. Keep taking medication Steb...won't cure bigotism tho.
BTW Steb...back in Kos next week...then if poss BVI for November..I,ll give Watford a miss..No Marinas in Watford, no base to work from..( I deliver yachts for a sort of living) Good work for a racist.
Actually the submarine ( sea scooter is yellow, used it this morning in Moraira bay...brilliant. Had a couple of hours on beach , and yes built sand castles with grand son..You must have the gift OG...and yes even with poor exchange rate a bottle of brandy is £6...and menu del dia...( Calamari today) is 9 euro...
So I,ll sit on beach , watch sun go down and think of Hull...
Anyways...seems remainers cant debate without insult. Good luck with book Peter.. Keep taking medication Steb...won't cure bigotism tho.
BTW Steb...back in Kos next week...then if poss BVI for November..I,ll give Watford a miss..No Marinas in Watford, no base to work from..( I deliver yachts for a sort of living) Good work for a racist.
That chart is blatantly dishonest, comparing those sleeping rough in the UK with the much larger number of those homeless and often in homeless accommodation elsewhere. Not in any way like with like, we have huge numbers in temporary and homeless accommodation in the UK.
In any case percentages in this instance are meaningless, up 50% can mean an increase from two people to three.
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Peter, what a hopeless jumble of statistics. .. that all citizens of Europe should have a place to rest their head at night, I would view as a civil right... Obviously you do also.
The Irish statistic is appalling and is an indictment of a number of agencies. We now have historically the greatest number of people living in temporary accommodation, in hotels at state expense , in cars and some on the streets.
In the Irish case the reasons were , a full decade of none building, a difficulty in getting capital together for both lenders and builders, and highly restrictive mortgage conditions in order to prevent the rampant bubble reoccurring.
This exists in parallel with a large number of empty houses, for various reasons, and a situation where others were expelled from their houses by failing to met mortgage conditions. It is our current most pressing scandal. And I wish I could be confident that the government has it in hand...