I think the" proclaimers" got there before you on that one... play their" cap in hand ". Availble on youtube....
May I suggest you are asking the wrong question, it should be not how is this possible ?but why is this possible?
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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I think the" proclaimers" got there before you on that one... play their" cap in hand ". Availble on youtube....
May I suggest you are asking the wrong question, it should be not how is this possible ?but why is this possible?
Don't burst anything, you could be surprised! You're right on one thing at least. Dundee does have a disproportionately high rate of people in poverty and not all have been treated well. Not that I have ever seen young kids with begging bowls on the streets. Truth be told the kids are generally fine and very well looked after, it's the parents who struggle. To even attempt to put the sole blame for that on the Tories is somewhat unfair. Particularly so when over the past few years there has much that the Scottish Government is able to do about such things themselves. I'm fairly up to speed on the Food Banks and they do a good job, in fact I volunteer and drive one of the vans for them most weeks doing deliveries.
Dundee, as a city, has picked itself up off the floor of late and when compared to where it was when I arrived in the late 80's, it's like chalk and cheese, not that I can claim the credit for that! With the Waterfront project there is a good chance things will now get a whole lot better. A lot of people, from all walks of life get together in Dundee and seriously try hard to do something about our communities, with some success I might add - don't knock it!
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Can almost bring myself to agree with you - hard as that may seem! There are certainly far too many charities chasing what little money we have, no not a plea for myself - I know first hand that it is the relatively poor of our communities that give a far greater percentage than the rest of us - excluding Flecc of course. To many charities, including small ones diluting the money. Yes I do agree there needs to be some serious root and branch pruning, now's a good time of year to start.
The details of the following may have some errors but the general gist is true. At least when it was flagged up on a radio programme and in our Dail no writs were issued.
Ireland had a financial meltdown following 2008 and the property mortgage sector was in freefall. So called vulture funds came in and bought distressed assets from specific building societies. That is common knowledge.
However a number of these vulture funded entities have themselves listed as charities And therefore tax exempt.
You just cannot bring yourself to see any wrong in tory policies, can you?
Tens of thousands of unnecessary, premature deaths, directly attributable to the implementation of tory welfare changes must be the fault of somebody else then!
The fact that the BBC refused to carry the story tells objective people much!
These links are to informed opinion:
new-analysis-links-30000-excess-deaths-in-2015-to-cuts-in-health-and-social-care.aspx
https://www.theguardian.com/careers/2017/feb/23/disability-employment-gap-sanctions-cuts-and-death-after-fit-to-work-tests
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/tory-austerity-deaths-study-report-people-die-social-care-government-policy-a8057306.html
Tom
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The posts....and especially those from people who run a business and who say things will work themselves out so no need to worry....are depressing. Such delusion in imagining that such a fiendishly complicated situation which has serious consequences for our economy is going to be an easy fix astounds me.
Here is an article written by an eminently sensible commentator and not one to be alarmist does confirm my worst fears.
"As the economy slides into post-Brexit slump, our care-worn Prime Minister began the big cave-in to the EU terms, starting with the cash. Nigel Farage revealed that the UK Government has now quietly indicated to Brussels its willingness to pay the €50bn divorce bill for which the Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson famously said that the EU could “go whistle”.
Leaked documents from the Commission revealed by Politico made clear that any payments will only tide us over the transition period until we formally leave the EU. Thereafter, the only thing that will be on offer, should the UK Government continue to reject the Customs Union and the rules of the European Single Market, will be a basic trade deal.
As the December deadline for deal or no deal with the EU draws near, the air is filled with the sound of privileged groups heading for the lifeboats. The Financial Times reported that the Government has offered the City of London assurances that financiers will be exempt from restrictive immigration rules after Brexit. Money talks. Fish talk: the BBC reported that Grimsby, which voted heavily for Brexit, is now wanting a special deal to protect its fish processing industry. The leading Tory Brexiteer, John Redwood MP, who moonlights as an investment banker, has advised his clients to dump the UK."
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15670145.Iain_Macwhirter__Brexiteer__the_mad_uncle_in_the_attic/?ref=mr&lp=5
I recommend that those of the "future is rosy" persuasion should really read the whole article.
Here is an article written by an eminently sensible commentator and not one to be alarmist does confirm my worst fears.
"As the economy slides into post-Brexit slump, our care-worn Prime Minister began the big cave-in to the EU terms, starting with the cash. Nigel Farage revealed that the UK Government has now quietly indicated to Brussels its willingness to pay the €50bn divorce bill for which the Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson famously said that the EU could “go whistle”.
Leaked documents from the Commission revealed by Politico made clear that any payments will only tide us over the transition period until we formally leave the EU. Thereafter, the only thing that will be on offer, should the UK Government continue to reject the Customs Union and the rules of the European Single Market, will be a basic trade deal.
As the December deadline for deal or no deal with the EU draws near, the air is filled with the sound of privileged groups heading for the lifeboats. The Financial Times reported that the Government has offered the City of London assurances that financiers will be exempt from restrictive immigration rules after Brexit. Money talks. Fish talk: the BBC reported that Grimsby, which voted heavily for Brexit, is now wanting a special deal to protect its fish processing industry. The leading Tory Brexiteer, John Redwood MP, who moonlights as an investment banker, has advised his clients to dump the UK."
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15670145.Iain_Macwhirter__Brexiteer__the_mad_uncle_in_the_attic/?ref=mr&lp=5
I recommend that those of the "future is rosy" persuasion should really read the whole article.
Yes you have been and pretending otherwise, haven't you?
How about you too attempting to post on topic?
Why shouldn't I say and post the first thing that comes into my head, just like you do.
Because there's not much in there? and what there is is second hand propaganda?
By the way Zlatan is not the constant ally you imagine him to be regarding Brexit
Here is an exapmple of how he swops sides
"
oldgroaner said: ↑
Why? surely it would be more logical to revert to the status Quo if the vote for leaving does not reach the required level, not the other way round.
The legitimacy of the last Advisory referendum has been blown to pieces in the light of events.
It was based on lies with no plan and the electorate had no real notion of what it entailed or what it will cost them, and they still don't!
Simply a stab in the dark polluted by lies and false promises, and years of Blaming the EU fro our incompetent Governents of all shades.
There should be an all party inquiry into all aspects of this decision to leave and then
There should be full disclose of the facts and consequences involved, and the press should be told to report only facts from this source not propaganda.
Then run it again with the same question, with the two to one level in force.
This time without the lies and promises and actually legally binding.
Alternatively take the "FUN" course and drive the nation into Penury and disorder, Poverty and suffering for the poor by letting it all turn into a Glorious Disaster on an Epic scale.
"Cry Will of the people! regain our Sovereignty! Close our Borders"
While people wave union jacks and starve in the Streets.
Click to expand...
And Zlatan responded
Yes , on reflection might be better to simply forget last referendum, have a new one and actually determine real level of support on either side...but insist on a 60% vote for a decision.???
On a personal note , I couldn't care less about the lies from.leave, I took all the rhetoric from both sides with a pinch of salt. All politicians lie. Sad but true.
There are two things contributing to my changing support.
Firstly , it was never made clear the level of integration that has developed between us and the EU. I,ve come to think unravelling the relationship is just too involved.Yes , perhaps naive on my part.
Secondly ( Which has 2 connected issues) The level of support for eu and the emotional attachment shown by so many has indicated to me that many folk want to stay far more than I want(ed) to leave. Related to this is the release of dangerous emotions shown by the extremes on both sides. Brexit does seem to have taken the lid off some very deep seated but ultimately misplaced feelings.
Can the genie be put back in the bottle, can things be unsaid ? Lets hope so.
The Brexit some were expecting is simply not going to happen anyway, whatever happens.?
I genuinely supported leave on economic grounds, I did believe Peter Hargreaves. Initially I was infuriated by the fact so many labelled all leavers racist, however having seen and listened to a few leavers this reaction was not surprising but not justified and still isn't.
The whole issue has proved too divisive.
The country should never have been offered the option of leaving , ultimately it has been proved nobody knew how to achieve it. The writing was on the wall immediately Cameron resigned.It was a bad sign. It was an option he offered he could not deliver. Utter stupidity.
#18083
And earlier he had denied he even Voted in the Referendum, then admitted he voted leave
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That's a bit rich coming from you - surely you realise that the majority of your posts simply carry a newspaper headline with a few comments that either repeat the message or get reinterpreted to match your own
Be truthful now, there's not a lot of original thought on this thread from anyone is there? Except mine of course!
Which bit(s) were new, I seem to recall everything said here?
I don't believe, not for a minute, that come March 2019 we will be in the position that we don't know what the deal is and liable to crash out following the two year implementation. The whole point of the implementation period is simply that - to put in place the agreement.
This is on a par with saying that the Government is trying for a hard-Brexit - it isn't.
I have lived and worked in Dundee for many years since attending University there in the early seventies so there is little you can tell me about it.
You appear to support their austerity policies and yet you drive a Food Bank van........there are times when you feel your head must explode....am I right? So much misery...so much wretched misery with some people starving to death after losing their benefits..sometimes wrongly....and yet you point to the Scottish Government even while aware that benefits is a reserved matter and anything our Government could do can be only palliative at best.
Peter can you not see that your government is floundering? It is confused as to what it wants. And of course it must be. It doesn't have a mandate, whatever legitimacy it had prior to the election has evaporated.
Now I've seen everything! Zlatan dislikes his own post!
And mine, I started the thread and one cannot get more original than that.
My position on this subject is simple and I've made it clear from the outset, I am a Remainer for two reasons:
1) I regard being a part of a major world body as a good thing in a world increasingly made up of giants.
2) The EU is politically slightly left of centre, having a more consistent social conscience than the UK.
Like any organisation created by man, the EU has numerous faults. I recognise them but they do not concern me since I adopt a stoic philosophy in their respect, content that the end justifies the necessary means and these means are not evil.
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Seems this post has grown arms and legs since I responded but all not really of any import other than someone changes his mind, now and again. Perhaps one could say the that is the whole point of this thread, albeit highly unlikely, as generally, we are so entrenched in our views - some more vocal, and insulting than others?
Or......if no agreement.........'You are the weakest link and you go home with...nothing!' as Anne Robinson delighted is stating to people who weren't very smart.
We can ignore the part that preceded the quoted words as that was just wishful thinking by you, as with all the others brainwashed and living in denial.
Tom