I wonder what kind of person can be so lacking in humanity to so readily disregard the desperate plight of one's fellow man?
Tom
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Tom
here's appealing to the dolly parton fan in you: there's some very, very hot (and I mean it) female refugees in Calais. Qualitative research can be huge fun.
LOTS! alas. and even worse applaud when we launch military interventions that inflame the situation.
Then refuse to see we have added to the plight of these people in no small measure.
I blame it on dissociation, seeing suffering on a tv, from far away, if a fraction of what happens in Aleppo happened here we'd be distraught.
That assumes that they are on a deprecate plight, which is far from certain. For the reasons that I have already stated (scythes, bricks, bottles, road blocking, all actions taken in a place of absolute safety), the evidence suggests that they are not in need of shelter from danger.
Perhaps you could journey to France, and stand amongst the migrants. You may ask for their sick to be brought to you so that the sickness can be banished from their weary bodies. If a small boy approaches bearing a loaf and two small fish, take the meagre rations from his hands for thy will bestow upon the 5000 a hearty meal.
Lead me, old tom, from the darkness into thy glorious light.
Very amusing tillson, but hardly cogent to the argument.
So necessarily your judgement is correct, yet based on nothing more than a personal point of view, and deliberately choosing to take a particular position while dismissing other possibilities.
Tell me what has your idea got to offer?
Will it stop the flow of these people?
Will it help them or us in any way?
Do explain the end product of your thought process.
What is to become of them and those that follow?
To be treated as villains without other than greed propelling them in our direction, because with no evidence to support that assertion, you have decided it must be true?
And we should continue our military interventions as they are nothing to do with this movement of peoples who are willing to give up stable lives at home, where they live lives of peace and ease, yet suddenly, impelled with a Lemming like impulse, risk life and limb, the love of their families and the comfort of home, and their future to live off benefits here?
What a very odd thing for them to do, but an even odder attitude for you to take when considering their situation.
There are two categories, refugees who need help and ecconomic migrants intent on illegal entry to the UK who don't. It is the economic migrants who have chosen the circumstances in which they find themselves. Let us not confuse the two because they are vastly different groups with vastly different needs.
The behaviour of the people in Calais is not consistent with that of a refugee.
Solution, do all that we can with the limited resources we have to prevent ecconomic migrants illegally entering the UK.
With winter approaching it may slow down the numbers arriving in Calais.
that distinction exists in your mind. In reality, out there, having lost several family members, ones house and town being permanently destroyed, the two "categories" (f you insist, experiences I'd argue) are much more enmeshed.
As I have already pointed out Economic migrants are not really going to risk the loss of everything that makes life worth while and risk life and limb just for a better monetary situation.
This is a fantasy which for some reason you have fallen for.
And there is no evidence whatsoever to support it.
And now inevitably you are going to come out with the eternal "and none to dispute it either."
The burden of proof lies with the one making the assertion, tillson it was your proposition where none existed before you made it.
My position is that this is a fantasy, and there is no requirement to disprove it any more that the existence of Father Christmas or the tooth fairy.
There seems to be two opposing views:
One opinion is that refugees and economic migrants, already in a place of safety and trying to illegally enter another country by resorting to violence and intimidation are one of the same thing.
The second opinion is that there are two distinct groups. Refugees in need of help and shelter from war and persecution. Economic migrants fleeing nothing, but intent on illegally entering other countries for perceived financial benefit.
Some people are devout followers of opinion one others believe in opinion two.
My personal opinion is that the second option reflects reality.
One opinion is that refugees and economic migrants, already in a place of safety and trying to illegally enter another country by resorting to violence and intimidation are one of the same thing.
The second opinion is that there are two distinct groups. Refugees in need of help and shelter from war and persecution. Economic migrants fleeing nothing, but intent on illegally entering other countries for perceived financial benefit.
Some people are devout followers of opinion one others believe in opinion two.
My personal opinion is that the second option reflects reality.
I watched one of the tree felling incidents near Calais,to be fair it appears to be the people smugglers rather than the migrants who are committing this act.
One can guess that the smugglers have been paid to get a migrant into the UK,maybe getting them onto one of those trucks constituted the end of the journey.
The smugglers were beating up a guy who didn't want to get on the truck so it would suggest that the migrants are not complicit in these acts.
We may soon cure the immigrant problem,after we have made such a mess of the U.K. after Brexit the migrants won't want to come here,Germany may look a more attractive option and no channel to cross.
KudosDave
One can guess that the smugglers have been paid to get a migrant into the UK,maybe getting them onto one of those trucks constituted the end of the journey.
The smugglers were beating up a guy who didn't want to get on the truck so it would suggest that the migrants are not complicit in these acts.
We may soon cure the immigrant problem,after we have made such a mess of the U.K. after Brexit the migrants won't want to come here,Germany may look a more attractive option and no channel to cross.
KudosDave
"Solution, do all that we can with the limited resources we have to prevent ecconomic migrants illegally entering the UK."
Well done tillson what you are proposing is a Criminal Act against the 1951 UNCHR convention
Take some really good advice
Forget it.
Well done tillson what you are proposing is a Criminal Act against the 1951 UNCHR convention
Take some really good advice
Forget it.
Everyone is an economic migrant. I bet tillson moved to find work, education and didn't stay in his birthtown. What makes tillson more worthy of shelter bed and food than someone in a shithole in Calais? Maybe he should go visit and find out and report back. He says we are naive....so educate us. But do something constructive at least. If we want to avoid human trafficking we need to take the human beings and get the criminals out of the picture. this should help stop Some of the trafficked human beings becoming the criminals. Let them all work. Doesn't matter what jobs.
Sent from my Lenovo YT3-850F using Tapatalk
Sent from my Lenovo YT3-850F using Tapatalk
Brexit is irrelevant to the NHS and our benefits system which makes this country the land of milk and honey for economic migrants.
This is a fundamental problem. Everyone I know who is here from the EU, which is quite a few, and I even have a good friend who was a childhood refugee from croatia....
They have all come to work, and they work damn hard. They have not come here for benefits.
The notion seems to persist that the UK is the only place which supports immigrants financially or, is far more generous than other states in mainland Europe.
I wonder where that idea originated?
Tom
I wonder where that idea originated?
Tom
Call me selfish but as one who enjoys the food of north Africa and the middle-east, I'd welcome a few more restaurants catering in that style. Immigrants from other places seem to have overcome the difficulties and gone into the catering business, employing their own people and we have made them very welcome, witness the number of Italian, Indian and Chinese restaurants around the country.
If it hadn't been for West Indians answering our desperate call for labour in 1948, London's transport system would have had to be severely cut back as people just didn't seem to want or need that kind of work in the early post-war period.
The Poles, Lithuanians and Russians all seem to be prepared to work hard for pretty poor pay just to try and carve out a life in Britain so I would guess that a similar ethic would exist among those trying to reach our shores today.
Statistically, we have suffered more atrocities from home-grown terrorists than from immigrants so the fear of those people attempting to reach Britain is somewhat illogical.
Tom
If it hadn't been for West Indians answering our desperate call for labour in 1948, London's transport system would have had to be severely cut back as people just didn't seem to want or need that kind of work in the early post-war period.
The Poles, Lithuanians and Russians all seem to be prepared to work hard for pretty poor pay just to try and carve out a life in Britain so I would guess that a similar ethic would exist among those trying to reach our shores today.
Statistically, we have suffered more atrocities from home-grown terrorists than from immigrants so the fear of those people attempting to reach Britain is somewhat illogical.
Tom