I know and people will suffer because we haven't the guts to belong to a united states of Europe
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Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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By the way OG china is outside eu,ee trade wwith them freely and always will. Infact cheaper post brexit.
OG afraid you are in a tiny minority there. ( you and Flecc, perhaps Junkers)
I know of none else that want a united states iof Europe. That iis dreaming, even had we stayed. It might be that that's frightening people.
How will that help us? We can't compete with their prices now ,we need to complete with them not act as a dumping ground for them
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OG
You paint quite an extreme and depressing picture of democracy in this country. You won't be surprised to hear that I don't agree with it largely because it is such an extreme view
It is clear however that it has problems, which are really nothing to do with the Brexit issue currently
Somewere along the way we have lost representation and accountability to the citizens who have lost faith in the process, on this I would agree
Without being partisan , just look at the trials and tribulations of the Labour Party, not just now, but ever since the Blair days
They claim to represent working people but the working people don't vote for them, the party elects a leader but he is not accepted by the MP's who were elected by the people
There exists a complete disconnect
So it is in my view with EU, and further complicated by the even less accountable democratic processes in practice, the U.K. Is disengaged. Also the near impossibility of ever reconciling the diverse cultural , and curmstantial situations of Europe to provide true consensus rather than just electoral tick boxing
Our system has its faults but it has currently served us well enough and in this case, Brexit clearly represented a full and involved electorate in making a decision which whilst me may be on opposing sides of that decision we should recognise it as a decision none the less
I am sure that the whole political question generally could be the subject of another never ending thread, perhaps you would like to start one.
In or out we can't, neither can eu. China pay workers pence per hour.in our out affects nothing with china.
Great post Brendan. Spot on.
I think that 99.9 % of BREXIT voters never expected wanted or hoped for a complete ban on immigration. Point me to the aspect of the BREXIT campaign which promised this. The immigration part of the BREXIT campaign was all about the control of immigration. That might see immigration levels rise above current numbers at certain times in the future or it may see numbers fall. It was always about control and not banning. I challenge you to point me to anything in the official BREXIT campaign which suggested a ban on immigration.
There is subliminal campaign going on at the moment to try and link BREXIT with ugly acts of racism. Any acts of that nature are committed by idiots who themselves have no place in this country and if anyone should be deported, it is them.
Again, point me in the direction of any statement saying that Rolls Royce is planning to run down it's UK operation. I know quite a lot about the internal working of Rolls Royce and how they innovate, develop, manufacture and sell. Aero engines are not like any other product that can simply have their production easily moved around the globe.
Another good post Tillson. Folk have bought into the exaggerations over Immigration with Brexit but probably because Farage has played such a big part. Unfortunately Farage although not holding any great power ( they reckon 3 million votes) he,s held balance of power. Hopefully as dust settles he will be playing lesser and lesser part.
As Sajjid David said today.
" We are all Breciters now"
Perhaps the scare stories on immigration and economy will be seen in true light
..RR,Hargreaves,Jaguar,Aviva, Weather spoons and lots of others are coming out of shells now.
Sense is dawning.
How many leavers are immigrants themselves ? Thousands. ( my town had 70% leave, a 74% turnout..and amongst highest migrant population in England.)
Yet stayers are calling us racists ? ( and a crappy northern town !)
As Sajjid David said today.
" We are all Breciters now"
Perhaps the scare stories on immigration and economy will be seen in true light
..RR,Hargreaves,Jaguar,Aviva, Weather spoons and lots of others are coming out of shells now.
Sense is dawning.
How many leavers are immigrants themselves ? Thousands. ( my town had 70% leave, a 74% turnout..and amongst highest migrant population in England.)
Yet stayers are calling us racists ? ( and a crappy northern town !)
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". Rolls-Royce Deutschland supplies, produces and supports engines for ... More Rolls-Royce products are built in the U.S. than anywhere else in the world."
And also
http://www.rolls-royce.com/country-sites/singapore/news-and-articles/rolls-royce-delivers-first-trent-aero-engine.aspx
They have even started making them in Singapore. so much for
"Aero engines are not like any other product that can simply have their production easily moved around the globe"
Sorry and all that.
"I think that 99.9 % of BREXIT voters never expected wanted or hoped for a complete ban on immigration. "
Not what I'm hearing from them in Hull, many they feel let down and want it stopped completely, as that was the impression the campaign gave them and they aren't happy with the idea the Government may actually allow more.
The Brexit campaign implied that immigration would be cut and NEVER said it could increase did it?
To say there is no link between the unrest caused by Brexit and acts of racism is like saying there is no link with getting wet if you go out when its raining.
An assembly plant with an element of manufacture.
I never said that Rolls Royce DO NOT manufacture in other countries, I said it wasn't as easy as switching production of other products. I know Rolls Royce have had a factory in China during the 1970s and 1980s producing the Spey engine. That didn't result in them "running down" UK operations. In fact, the company grew stronger. Get your facts straight and don't transfer straight from Google to keyboard. Any fart can do that.
You also stated that Rolls Royce would be running down the UK side of their operation, which prompted me to respond. I asked you where is the statement confirming this? Or is it more of your rubbish?
...and Hull reflects the rest of the BREXIT voter's sentiment does it?
Have you interviewed the BREXIT voters in a sort of straw poll to canvas their views?
And who exactly are, "them?" All of "them?" "Some of "them?" "One or two of "them?" None of "them" and its actually something which you have made up?
The BREXIT campaign was all about CONTROL of immigration. They never said that they would cut it or stop it. You said that many BREXIT voters were disappointed that immigration will not be banned. I asked you to identify to me the aspect of the BREXIT campaign which promised to ban immigration. Now get on and do it and stop pedalling lies.
Thats actually very insulting to a BREXIT voter such as myself. I suspect that the scum who carry out these acts are actually incapable of finding their way to a voting booth, so are highly unlikely to have voted at all.
I am trying my hardest to empathise with you and to actually like you but I can't. You are slinging around unsupported statements which are very offensive and I don't usually get offended.
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...and Hull reflects the rest of the BREXIT voter's sentiment does it?
Have you interviewed the BREXIT voters in a sort of straw poll to canvas their views?
And who exactly are, "them?" All of "them?" "Some of "them?" "One or two of "them?" None of "them" and its actually something which you have made up?
The BREXIT campaign was all about CONTROL of immigration. They never said that they would cut it or stop it. You said that many BREXIT voters were disappointed that immigration will not be banned. I asked you to identify to me the aspect of the BREXIT campaign which promised to ban immigration. Now get on and do it and stop pedalling lies.
Thats actually very insulting to a BREXIT voter such as myself. I suspect that the scum who carry out these acts are actually incapable of finding their way to a voting booth, so are highly unlikely to have voted for BREXIT.
I am trying my hardest to empathise with you and to actually like you but I can't. You are slinging around unsupported statements which are very offensive.[/QUOTE]
It seems that when I say anything at all you get offended, perhaps instead of pontificating on what the leave actually said you could get out and about and talk to people? all I am passing on to you is what I am hearing.
Believe it or deny it but it won't change anything.
I have no idea whether the atttitude in Hull reflects the whole of the Brexit Campaign, but are you so sure it doesn't? have you any reason to believe that?
When even Rupert Murdoch said yeaterday
"
Murdoch, 85, also had a warning for leadership contender Boris Johnson in the wake of anger after Nigel Farage disowned a Leave pledge spend £350 million of European Union cash on the NHS after Brexit. “If he backtracks on serious things there could be another bloody revolt.”
Granted he didn't mention immigration, no doubt in your cosy little corner of the world it isn't a serious thing?
I've got news for you : people are not at all impressed at being cheated as they see it
And also a huge Wind turbine manufacturing plant is under construction here and even still offering jobs despite this warning
"
How safe is Siemens' investment in Hull after Brexit?
By Hull Daily Mail | Posted: June 29, 2016
Siemens has put a huge question mark over continued investment in wind power in the UK after the Brexit vote. But what will that mean for the future of its new huge plant in Hull and the thousands of jobs it is expected to generate? Jamie Macaskill reports.
What has Siemens said?
The company's chief executive in the UK, Juergen Maier, has said because of concerns about the Brexit vote and Britain leaving the European Union there are now questions over what markets could be available for Hull-manufactured wind turbine blades.
He told the Guardian that Siemens' future export plans "will now stall" until Britain's role outside the EU becomes clearer and he told the FT future collaborations with European partners to develop the Humber as a hub of renewable energy were now at risk.
Great, isn't it? the future looks bright and rosy
Obviously I don't speak for all, but neither do you for all your so pedantic remarks, I am simply passing on what is freely being discussed, and if you are of the opinion that only a small majority understood what the leave campaign was saying about immigration, means not merely having a level of control but might even mean that under certain circumstances more may be admitted you have become so detached from reality that you have no idea of the intensity of emotion people feel on the subject around here
As to whether you wish to like me or not, frankly I don't give a damn, so don't bother trying.
You have a habit of doing exactly what you accuse others of, don't you?
Just who is calling you racist? or do you associate yourself somehow with undesirable elements? its you making that connection, not me, or are you saying that being in favour of Brexit somehow guarantees purity of mind and thought?
I asked you to point me to the aspect of the BREXIT campaign which promised a ban on immigration. You can't.
I asked you for a statement from Rolls Royce confirming that it is running down its UK operation. You can't provide one.
You can't provide a tangible link between racist act carried out by scum and the BREXIT voters.
The truth is, you are a serial garbage poster who will copy and paste any nonsense that a cursory Google search happens to throw up. Very little of what you post has any foundation rooted in fact and mainly consist of the ramblings of a man who is a bitter and sore loser, hoping upon hope that bad fortune for the UK will follow the exit vote. It's a totally pathetic spectacle and you should demonstrate some dignaty and accept the result.
I asked you to point me to the aspect of the BREXIT campaign which promised a ban on immigration. You can't.
I asked you for a statement from Rolls Royce confirming that it is running down its UK operation. You can't provide one.
You can't provide a tangible link between racist act carried out by scum and the BREXIT voters.
The truth is, you are a serial garbage poster who will copy and paste any nonsense that a cursory Google search happens to throw up. Very little of what you post has any foundation rooted in fact and mainly consist of the ramblings of a man who is a bitter and sore loser, hoping upon hope that bad fortune for the UK will follow the exit vote. It's a totally pathetic spectacle and you should demonstrate some dignaty and accept the result.[/QUOTE]
Nice try, but no thank you, you keep throwing out these misleading prove this and prove that challenges simply because I repeat to you what people are saying. It really is a case of you not wanting anyone to burst your little bubble with bad news isn't it?
You can't prove that there is no link between racist acts and the Brexit cause either, and frankly all I have alluded to is that the environment of this act has brought such nut cases out of the holes they normally hide in.
It is You that is leaping to conclusions not me.
I am a serial poster of information that you don't want to hear is the truth, and you cant connect cause with effect where the actions of the public don't fit with how you think they should.
The process is one of denial.
Brexit won, yes, by a margin of 4% with a support of a population deliberately misled with a campaign of lies and half truths.
No wonder you don't want to accept that.
I have accepted the result, as proof that a dreadful mistake has been made for all the wrong reasons...does that make you happy?
"I asked you for a statement from Rolls Royce confirming that it is running down its UK operation. You can't provide one."
No need Tillson what I wrote was this
"Rolls Royce, would that be the Chinese Growing part of the group or the UK that will be run down?"
Now lets look at what actually happens in the real world, lets take the company I worked for
It opened a joint venture factory in China to allegedly service that market
within a year we started getting deliveries into our factory here of inferior product of the same styles as we were making.
Suddenly without warning our production facility was shut down and only the warehouse remained open to take in the Chinese production
The company didn't sell the cheaper Chinese good for a lesser price, oh no, the temptation of a quick easy profit was too strong.
Rapidly they ruined its reputation and the company closed and went into the hands of venture capitalist who kept the name for marketing purposes in the future.
Now you clever person you , tell me what is to stop Rolls Royce from doing that? think of all the lovely profit they could have and all they have to do is close one facility and move productions to the other.
So now I challenge you prove that is not the most likely outcome.
I post Garbage? then you post wishful naive rubbish!
No wonder Brexit appeals to the Gullible
No need Tillson what I wrote was this
"Rolls Royce, would that be the Chinese Growing part of the group or the UK that will be run down?"
Now lets look at what actually happens in the real world, lets take the company I worked for
It opened a joint venture factory in China to allegedly service that market
within a year we started getting deliveries into our factory here of inferior product of the same styles as we were making.
Suddenly without warning our production facility was shut down and only the warehouse remained open to take in the Chinese production
The company didn't sell the cheaper Chinese good for a lesser price, oh no, the temptation of a quick easy profit was too strong.
Rapidly they ruined its reputation and the company closed and went into the hands of venture capitalist who kept the name for marketing purposes in the future.
Now you clever person you , tell me what is to stop Rolls Royce from doing that? think of all the lovely profit they could have and all they have to do is close one facility and move productions to the other.
So now I challenge you prove that is not the most likely outcome.
I post Garbage? then you post wishful naive rubbish!
No wonder Brexit appeals to the Gullible
I wish you would stop this. Things are not accepted as fact because it is not possible to prove the contrary. We have been down this road before.
You seem to think it acceptable to link BREXIT supporters to racists, without any evidence or proof, because the BREXIT supporters can't prove otherwise. I pointed out to you that you are unable to prove that you don't shag donkeys whilst simultaneously allowing an Alsatian dog to lick your balls. The absence of proof to the contrary of either of these situations does not mean that they are true.
What I wrote was this
"To say there is no link between the unrest caused by Brexit and acts of racism is like saying there is no link with getting wet if you go out when its raining."
For crying our loud try to understand that I have NOT linked racist activity to Brexit voters, but to the fact they the racists exploit the atmosphere of distrust and lets face it rage that the Referendum has created.
Can we not agree on that at least?
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