CST - it's all working

[banbury frank]

Hi we now sell our own CST motor 500 watts

we call it the BABY


Commuter Baby

below link to a customer Jamis 29 er bike with 30 gears and cst motor and 48 volt 20 AH Kube battery


Commuter Baby


It is supplied with a range off 48 volt battery's 10 AH 15 AH 20 AH It is Plug and Play with the controller and battery mounted in our kube attached to the seat post down tube NON removable

motor weight 3.5 kilos

will pull a 20 stone rider up the steepest off hill with light pedaling

we will soon have on our next shipment front or rear motors front motors for bikes with HUB gears

Or twin Motor Drive

Comes with Half Throttle and lcd display all terminated with water proof connectors


It can be programed to 25 kph up to 40 KPH


WE limit the speed to max 40 KPH or you will destroy the internal gearing

Drag on the motor NONE so you can use the bike with no power like a normal Bike

you can fit you original gear cassette up to 10 speed


It has built in speed sensor to make the speed on the display work

Frank

 

[103Alex1]

I'm glad it's going so well. How about some photos of it loaded up.

It's more bulk than weight

 

[Scimitar]

Keep an eye on that kickstand - those ones look fine but they break near the top. Pity, as it's a reasonably good design let down by monkey metal. I'm inclined to re-make mine with steel bits where the original stressed and failed.

 

[103Alex1]

Keep an eye on that kickstand - those ones look fine but they break near the top. Pity, as it's a reasonably good design let down by monkey metal. I'm inclined to re-make mine with steel bits where the original stressed and failed.

Might just order a spare to replace it if it goes - wasn't an expensive component at all so not really bothered if its life is relatively short - it's only the postal delay that's a PITA if you don't have a spare in.

I did notice there's a lot of pivot 'give' in it when you put it down (i.e. it's capable of rotating a little beyond the fully down position). My guess is if you were unlucky the bike weight could put a shearing force on it which could do some damage I guess if on too much of a slope for example. I also used self-locking nuts to strengthen it, which seem to be doing a good job.

 

[bilabonic]

Have you thought about upgrading to the 270 rpm CST motor at 36v. It'll put you right in that range. With the three speed switch connected, it'll max out at about 24 mph and still give very significant power at 21 mph so that you can pedal lightly to maintain that speed.

Seems a lot of money for a hub only, what does CST mean ?

I am a bit confused by the motor power ratings with regards the battery voltages tbh.

Obviously I=P/V, but i get confused with regards motor power/ battery power with regards speed/torque plus geared motors ?

Surely a bigger battery would be better ?

 

[bilabonic]

Hi we now sell our own CST motor 500 watts

we call it the BABY


Commuter Baby

below link to a customer Jamis 29 er bike with 30 gears and cst motor and 48 volt 20 AH Kube battery


Commuter Baby


It is supplied with a range off 48 volt battery's 10 AH 15 AH 20 AH It is Plug and Play with the controller and battery mounted in our kube attached to the seat post down tube NON removable

motor weight 3.5 kilos

will pull a 20 stone rider up the steepest off hill with light pedaling

we will soon have on our next shipment front or rear motors front motors for bikes with HUB gears

Or twin Motor Drive

Comes with Half Throttle and lcd display all terminated with water proof connectors


It can be programed to 25 kph up to 40 KPH


WE limit the speed to max 40 KPH or you will destroy the internal gearing

Drag on the motor NONE so you can use the bike with no power like a normal Bike

you can fit you original gear cassette up to 10 speed


It has built in speed sensor to make the speed on the display work

Frank

Jamis 29 er bike with 30 gears and cst motor and 48 volt 20 AH Kube battery link not working ?

So are you basically using a lower wattage motor(250w) /higher voltage battery to more current and limiting it at the controller or someting ?

This is what is confusing me with the array of motor ratings, seems your better of over volting a lower wattage motor for mor speed/torque.

 

[banbury frank]

Hi We only use 48 volt It is a proper designed motor and controller for 48 volts


link for Jamis

Testimonials about Xipi


volts X amps = watts

we use a 50 volt battery and a 20 amp controller so it runs at 500 watts peaking at about 800 watts max

You can over volt all you want BUT at the End off the day you need iron and copper to make a good motor that is why our motor weight is 3.5 kilos and our 2,500 watt motor is 8.5 kilos

CST motor Has its cassette freewheel on the side so you can fit the original cassette off the bike you are converting NOT a screw on type

We are about 3 months off launching our 60 volt 3.500 watt 40 MPH kit

you can understand WHY we call it our Baby KIT



Frank

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Seems a lot of money for a hub only, what does CST mean ?

I am a bit confused by the motor power ratings with regards the battery voltages tbh.

Obviously I=P/V, but i get confused with regards motor power/ battery power with regards speed/torque plus geared motors ?

Surely a bigger battery would be better ?

CST means cassette, so you can use cassette gears instead of crappy free-wheels. This motor comfortably handles 30 amps at 36v, so that's 1200w from the battery. It's rated at 500w, which is pretty meaningless.

The motor design affects its speed. You can design a motor to run at any speed ay 36v. The CST does 24mph at 36v. Franks CST clone is designed to be slower at 36v like your BPM, so you need 48v to get the speed you want with that one.

The CST is a lovely motor. It has the same power as the BPM, but it's slightly smaller and better made. It costs about the same as a battery upgrade.

 

[103Alex1]

I see they're doing the CST 500W rear as a kit now rather than just as a bare motor for you to build the wheel yourself :

https://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-kits/563-q11-48v1kw-front-driving-hub-motor-e-bike-conversion-kit.html

However, if the factory supplied wheels aren't very well built (based on bilabonic's reports of the BPM kit) you can still have a go at building them yourself. If you spend time building the wheel carefully you likely won't have spoke problems - and will know how to true it as well when (eventually) done ! If I did it again I'd tweak some of the spoke lengths for dishing the wheel... am thinking this would likely produce an improved result ?

If you are heavy or carry heavy loads on the rack then you can use DT Swiss spokes or get some from catsnapper. They'll be a lot more money but very strong.

If mates want bikes building then you could likely pool an order and even flog on your BPM wheel / freewheel to one of them as it's virtually new.

d8veh's speed reports are pretty much spot on what I get from mine - 23-24mph on the flat, 25mph when I don't have the bike loaded up and give it a decent pedal ! It's the hill climbing which is really very impressive for a setup that allows those top speeds. Taking on 1/2 - 3/4 mile long 18-22% uphill slopes that smaller cars drop to 2nd gear on at 16-18mph with a bit of spinning really can't be knocked for £600 landed kit.

If you fit a cycle analyst you can really see the truth about what power is drawn when, exactly how much pedaling helps (or doesn't depending on gear, speed) and what effect on Watts drawn. Plus Ah used etc. I actually thought it was worth the money after fitting it and using it for a bit. Initial acceleration and very steep slopes are the only times you really see considerably more than 700-800W - it's at these times you can see peaks of 1150-1260W. At other times you just don't need it to make those speeds. Also bear in mind the battery starts at 42V fully charged so you do see more than 1200W off it in the first 10 miles or so. Plus KU123 is a 30A controller. So you get considerably more W than a 48V battery with a 20A controller as in the Commuter Baby.

The CST is a lovely motor. It has the same power as the BPM, but it's slightly smaller and better made. It costs about the same as a battery upgrade.

It's also got the decent blue gears inside which are made from the same material as some of the US ones which are much pricier. Apart from the labour involved in the wheel build I had no regrets going for this motor rather than a BPM with a freewheel. Having looked at every part of it inside (and done an unplanned belt & braces job on the waterproofing with extra instant gasket on the screws and between cover plate & stator !), from what I've seen on other threads it looks to be about as bulletproof as any hub motor you could get your hands on.

 

[bilabonic]

Cheers Guys, still a little confused by terminology, my Dura Ace kit on my uses a 'crappy' cassette BUT fits onto a splined freehub.

I am now thinking of selling my kit and upgrading to kit above BUT that with a 48v/15Ah Li-Poly Battery which i have found that can be made to fit my triangle.

Battery parameter:

Voltage: 48 V
Lifecycle: >1000 times 85% capacity after
Capacity: 15AH
Charging Voltage: <59 V
Charging Current: 0~1.5C
Rated Discharging Amperage:10A
Max Continuous Discharging: 20A
Maximum Discharging Current:20A
Weight:7KG
Dimension:220*270*75MM

It is only £40 for the whole kit, would this be a good option ?

I have a buyer for my kit and it would cost the same.

Cheers


Think i need to add to my thread...or start a new one !!

 

[103Alex1]

Your cassette is on the freewheel ... on the CST it goes straight on the motor.

Rated Discharging Amperage:10A
Max Continuous Discharging: 20A

This bit makes me a little cautious - perhaps someone with more knowledge can comment ....

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Cheers Guys, still a little confused by terminology, my Dura Ace kit on my uses a 'crappy' cassette BUT fits onto a splined freehub.

I am now thinking of selling my kit and upgrading to kit above BUT that with a 48v/15Ah Li-Poly Battery which i have found that can be made to fit my triangle.

Battery parameter:

Voltage: 48 V
Lifecycle: >1000 times 85% capacity after
Capacity: 15AH
Charging Voltage: <59 V
Charging Current: 0~1.5C
Rated Discharging Amperage:10A
Max Continuous Discharging: 20A
Maximum Discharging Current:20A
Weight:7KG
Dimension:220*270*75MM

It is only £40 for the whole kit, would this be a good option ?

I have a buyer for my kit and it would cost the same.

Cheers


Think i need to add to my thread...or start a new one !!

We need a link to that 48v battery to be able to comment. What you've written doesn't make sense. Normally a 15aH one should be able to give more current than that. To save me going back through all the posts, could you list again what you already have: motor, battery, controller, etc. I thought you had a BPM motor that doesn't have a spline for gears.

 

[103Alex1]

To save me going back through all the posts, could you list again what you already have: motor, battery, controller, etc. I thought you had a BPM motor that doesn't have a spline for gears.

^^ That's right on the motor ... his battery is 36V 20Ah shrinkwrap Li-Ion and controller is KU123.

 

[103Alex1]

Done another 270 miles in the last 2 weeks and just hit the 500 mile mark since mid-June. Touch wood everything's still OK ! Getting to grips with the cliffside trails





... but the very deep ruts & steps in places are meant for walking not cycling and the paths behind some of the main beaches have deep sand so it's very slow going ... and a dismount for walkers. The real bonus is getting 12 miles home up steep hills against a 15mph headwind when I hit the road again in just over half an hour.

My little island this afternoon (dead centre) was a bit of a swim with all my stuff but thankfully the dry bag held



Much needed on arrival

 

[103Alex1]

... but well worth the effort (and the climb up the rock with 2 bags of gear !)





Best Summer time I've had in Britain these last few weeks. Ever. More than I ever hoped for - but the vision of what was possible was always in the back of my mind throughout the build - even though I was braced for disappointment. Just this once, maybe I did enough "paying" up front to strike a bit of luck lol.

 

[103Alex1]

Cracked 850 trouble-free hilly miles today. Very happy with this baby and getting fonder of it by the week ... it's hard right now to imagine being without it. Maybe the change in Season will dampen the love but I built this for Summer/early to mid Autumn 2013 and it's surpassed all my expectations time and time again.

Recently done some 32 to 35-mile rides at lower average speed (18mph) and never topped 12Ah actual clocked consumption.

Think I'm getting a bit better at managing the power by monitoring power input on the CA as I ride and moving over to the cruise throttle on longer rides. I switch back to the sprung throttle off-road and if I hit any significant traffic. The double throttle thing is great and I especially love the middle switch position acting as a throttle disabler - I switch to this if I pull over (e.g. to take a phone call) and it means no possibility of accidentally engaging throttle without having to switch off the bike. Touch wood my brake cutoff switch and all the accessory circuitry and mounts have stayed working fine despite extensive shaking punishment off-road on bumpy golf courses and clifftop ruts.

Looking back, I was running about 19Wh/mile in July and managing about 20.5mph average speed. Today I clocked 13Wh/mile over the same route (22 miles), managed 20.5mph average speed and exceeded my previous top speed downhill to crack 47mph. Same knobbly 2.1 MTB tyres, same top gear and similar road conditions.

So something's improving ! I'd like to think it was my fitness - to some extent it is (pedalled hard a lot and didn't ease off on the downhills much). But might also be partly down to the end of Summer and a huge drop in cars on the road. Round here that means far less stopping and starting as there are so many miles on single lanes with passing places.... the cars grind to a standstill passing each other and you get stuck behind.

Just a few of those can hammer your consumption. It's incredible just how many Ah accelerating off throttle starts uses up even on relatively flat gound - measured input Watts can top 1k very easily. It's a bit like watching an electric meter spinning with 3 kettles boiling, every light in the house on, the washing machine going, oven on and fridge/freezer re-cooling all at once . If you can keep moving the consumption falls considerably.

Still, about 2.5-3Ah less over 22 miles is considerable and I certainly felt it when I got home (in a rewarding way).

Will be reunited with my Agattu soon for a spell - I've only been able to get back to take it out once for a short ride and recharge since late June so it'll be good to give it a bit of a run. Will certainly be interesting to see how I feel about it now.

 

[103Alex1]

Home again after a month away (during which time I gather it's pretty much been raining non-stop in Devon !). Pumped up the tyres, cleaned & oiled the chain, opened up the box to check everything (all wiring looked perfect) and took the bike out for 1st spin down to the beach this afternoon. Cloud breaking up & bit of a breeze up but water was calm, still very warm and low tide so went out snorkelling. Definitely back to wetsuit days but felt so good to be back in the water !

Hooked up my big front headlight now the nights are drawing in. It's been boxed up since May. Just back & works very well for being seen in daylight with lower light levels. Interestingly, cars are actually stopping at passing places rather than carrying on towards me & leaving me a foot to pass them on the lanes. Dip switch working great too.

Was such a relief to be able to come back, get on the bike and find everything working without a hitch. Hoping I;m not tempting fate but beginning to feel that there is a lot to be said for being able to build things yourself and 'over build' them on spec (especially wiring, fuses, enclosure etc.). Whilst conversions may lack some of the factory-finish appearance of retail bikes, being able to avoid the corner-cutting which sometimes goes on with manufacturers looking for margin enhancements hopefully makes for a reliable build.... and at least if things do go wrong you can easily fix or replace them.

Was built for the exact use I wanted to put it to rather than buying the nearest thing off the shelf I could find/afford. Really love the bike, more than my Kalkhoff now, and happy to be back on it.

 

[OldBob1]

Hi Alex like you I have for the last 2 months missed going out on my bikes.
The circulation in both my legs reduced, causing mobility problems.
But after a stents in both legs and a bellowing of the arteries, yesterday I took the beast out for a gentle 10 mile run, its Great to be back, but must sort them handle bars out as not easy on the arms.

Bob

 

[103Alex1]

Spent ages taking apart the throttle and swapped the wires, put it all together again. Now the 3sp switch housing has cracked in half when putting it back on the handlebars. Must have overtightened it.

I am completely sick of all this. As soon as I get one thing sorted another problem arises. Been going on for months and months and I've only been able to ride the bike a few times.

False economy. If I'd bought a ready-made bike I could have been riding it for the last few months, living the life it was all meant to facilitate and have something with a ready resale market afterwards. Saved myself weeks of work too. If only there was one available that would give me the spec I needed. Definitely a desperate last ditch saloon option for if you really don't have the funds to buy a new bike. How I am even still going with this bike build beats me - it's like a never ending nightmare.

I'm pretty much convinced the conversion route ain't for me. This is a one-off and I won't be doing it again. So now I have no throttle mechanism and need a 3sp switch from somewhere to remake the whole f****** array again. What a waste of time.

It's funny I was reading back over some of this thread the other day. I'd forgotten what a complete baptism of fire it all was and in retrospect how over-ambitious it was as a first build. Definitely a case of ignorance is bliss. I really had reached near-breaking at this point lol - was just desperate to get home to the SW with a finished bike that would do me for the Summer already 6+ weeks overdue.

Against the backdrop of how well this bike has served me since finally finishing it in late Spring, how reliable it has proven and how perfect it has been for the conditions it was designed for I now realize I'd never have been able to go out and buy something which was so well suited. Plus the things it took me weeks to sort out I could now probably do in days - most importantly knowing how to wire up and configure and what works well/what doesn't. The Cycle Analyst was worth the money and everything just "works" without faffing about. Which is basically what I wanted from the outset.

I'm also unconcerned about resale markets because I don't think I'd ever part with it - and it's quite clear the resale market for retail eBikes ain't anything like what you might think it should be. So all that worrying about grass being greener was based on misconception.

Key thing is not to have to do things like this against unrealistic time pressures especially when you have no previous relevant experience ! ... and in the end I'm glad I went the extra mile (or 10 ?) on the extras and upgrades, even if it nearly killed me to find a way to fit them all in. Now the nights are setting in early and the dull days have arrived the lights are a godsend - and are truly serious kit good for any pitch black high hedged blind cornered single track lane .

I've just repaired a hedgetrimmer whose electric cable got severed and next thing on the list is to finally learn how to get the lawnmower keystart to work again after years of hauling on a pull cord and a local service shop which can't tell me what battery it needs ! A year ago I wouldn't have even thought about a prospect of fixing it myself but now I'm wondering just how hard it can really be. So I'm figuring this little project has already changed my outlook for the positive in a wider sense . That's got to be a good thing and makes it feel all the more worthwhile.

 

[RobF]

We all felt your pain, Alex.