Electric bike warranties

[indalo]

I happened across the Oxygen site recently and clicked the various tabs as one does. When I read through the warranty terms, I got confused and re-read them several times, thinking I must be thick as I didn't quite understand the section.

Now, I'm not singling out Oxygen as other sellers may offer similar warranty terms, (I haven't checked) but I still feel both the sections marked "One year warranty" and "Three year warranty" are confusing. Can somebody at Oxygen or anybody else clarify the meaning of those sections, taken in conjunction with the 2 year part? I certainly wouldn't be very impressed at being expected to pay labour charges for any repair work on ANY piece of equipment within 12 months of purchase, unless it was demonstrably the result of misuse or neglect. Even after 3 years, I'd baulk at paying any contribution towards parts that were patently unfit for purpose.

The following is a direct lift of the relevant passage:

Our new Oxygen Bicycles are covered with the full two year warranty providing that the bicycle has been registered within 14 days of the purchase date. The warranty includes all the major components such as motor, battery, controller and the charger.

The Oxygen two year warranty is in force for models built in the 2010 season and onward.
For models older than this please check your included owner's manual for specific limits on the time the warranty is in force.

LIMITED WARRANTY

Oxygen Bicycles makes the following limited Warranty:
THREE YEARS LIMITED WARRANTY ON BICYCLE FRAME

Oxygen Bicycles further warrants to the original owner that the frame of this new Oxygen Bicycles purchased from an authorized Oxygen Bicycles dealer shall be free of defective materials or workmanship for the lifetime of ownership by the original owner. During this warranty period, Oxygen Bicycles shall repair or replace, at its sole option, the bicycle frame if Oxygen Bicycles determines the frame is defective and subject to this limited warranty. The original owner shall pay all labor and shipping charges connected with the repair or replacement of the bicycle frame.

TWO YEARS ON MAJOR ELECTRICAL COMPONENTS

The two years warranty applies to major electrical components including motor, battery, controller and charger. The two year warranty for the battery applies only to the batteries used according to the manual. The batteries are subject to a 30% memory loss over the two year period.

ONE YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY ON BICYCLE COMPONENTS

Oxygen Bicycles warrants to the original owner that this new Oxygen bicycle shall be free of defective materials and workmanship for a period of one year from the date of original purchase in the United Kingdom and Europe and operated under normal conditions and use. During this one-year period, Oxygen Bicycles shall repair or replace, at its sole option, all parts that are found by Oxygen Bicycles to be defective and subject to this limited warranty. The original owner shall pay all labor charges connected with the repair or replacement of all parts..

GENERAL PROVISIONS

This limited warranty is made only to the original owner of this Oxygen bicycle purchased from an authorized Oxygen dealer, and it shall remain in force only as long as the original owner retains ownership of the Oxygen bicycle. This limited warranty is transferable providing the Oxygen Bicycle will be re-registered to the new owner. In order to obtain service under this Limited Warranty, the owner must deliver the Oxygen bicycle to an authorized Oxygen dealer who sold the bicycle, together with the document identifying the Oxygen warranty card, or proof of online registration at Oxygen Electric Bikes | Electric Bicycles | E-bikes UK and the bill of sale or other dated proof of purchase document identifying the Oxygen bicycle by frame number. This Limited Warranty does not apply to normal wear and tear, nor to defects, malfunctions or failures that result from the abuse, neglect, improper maintenance, alteration, modification, accident, or misuse (including, without limitation, bicycle racing, bicycle motocross, stunt bicycling or similar activities) of the Oxygen bicycle.

THIS LIMITED WARRANTY IS THE ONLY EXPRESS OR LIMITED WARRANTY APPLICABLE TO OXYGEN BICYCLES. ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, SHALL BE LIMITED IN SCOPE AND DURATION IN ACCORDANCE WITH THIS LIMITED WARRANTY. OXYGEN SHALL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES SUFFERED BY ANY PARTY. THE FOREGOING STATEMENTS OF WARRANTY ARE EXCLUSIVE AND IN LIEU OF ALL OTHER REMEDIES.



THE LIMITED WARRANTY SET FORTH HEREIN MAY NOT BE EXTENDED, ENLARGED OR OTHERWISE MODIFIED BY ANY OXYGEN DEALER, AGENT OR EMPLOYEE, AND OXYGEN DOES NOT ASSUME ANY LIABILITY OR MAKE ANY WARRANTY EXCEPT AS STATED IN THE LIMITED WARRANTY.

WARRANTY ONLY APPLIES IN THE UNITED KINGDOM AND OTHER EU COUNTRIES. SEE YOUR DEALER FOR THE SPECIFIC WARRANTY IN YOUR COUNTRY. WARRANTY VALID ONLY IF BICYCLE IS ASSEMBLED BY AN AUTHORIZED OXYGEN DEALER.

Perhaps I expect too much?

Indalo

 

[morphix]

That's a strange warranty indeed and I think unreasonable/worthless.

The first part contradicts itself by saying they offer a lifetime warranty on the frame, but it's limited to 3 years?! It then goes on to say that the owner has to pay for labour and shipping within that period. So how is that a warranty? I'm not even sure that's legal.

 

[indalo]

Cheers morphix! I was worried I was the only one. If I could be a***d, I'd check out the warranties of the well-known brands but I'm disappointed that such a spurious guarantee exists in this day and age.

I'm bound to say that, even if Oxygen bikes should be top kit, I wouldn't buy one on account of that warranty.

Regards,
Indalo

 

[overlander]

The fact you have to pay your own shipping makes a mockery of the warranty. If a manufacturer is going to skimp on £10 postage cost i really do not think the warranty will be worth the paper its written on.

 

[Jon]

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended)

The Sale of Goods Act lays down several conditions that all goods sold by a trader must meet.

T

• he goods must be:
  
• as described
  
• of satisfactory quality
  
• fit for purpose

As described refers to any advert or verbal description made by the trader.

Satisfactory quality covers minor and cosmetic defects as well as substantial problems. It also means that products must last a reasonable time. But it doesn't give you any rights if a fault was obvious or pointed out to you at point of sale.

Fit for purpose covers not only the obvious purpose of an item but any purpose you queried and were given assurances about by the trader.

If you buy something which doesn't meet these conditions, you have the potential right to return it, get a full refund, and if it will cost you more to buy similar goods elsewhere, compensation (to cover the extra cost) too.

Note, however, that the right to reject goods and get a full refund only lasts for a relatively short time after which a buyer is deemed to have 'accepted' goods. This doesn't mean that the buyer has no legal redress against the seller, just that he/she isn't entitled to a full refund.

Instead a buyer is first and foremost entitled to have the goods repaired or replaced. If these remedies are inappropriate, then you're entitled to a suitable price reduction, or to return the goods and get a refund (reduced to take account of any wear and tear).

The act covers second-hand items and sales. But if you buy privately, your only entitlement to your money back is if the goods aren't 'as described'.

If goods which are expected to last six months don't, it'll be presumed that the goods didn't conform to the contract at the time they were bought, unless the seller can prove to the contrary.

In all other situations, it's for the consumer to prove their own case (that is, that the problem existed at the time of the contract). This will prove more difficult the longer you've had the goods. Subject to this, a consumer has six years from the time they buy something in which to make a claim, irrespective of how long the goods actually last.

Should your bike fail within a reasonable time you will have recourse. Should you feel Oxygen or any dealer is not meeting its requirements under UK law you have the option of court. I have done this twice before as people call my bluff. It cost me about £80 to take them court and generally you come better off. If you take a large company to court much larger than these, they will either settle just before the court date which ive had before and in one case they didnt even turn up to court so it was ruled in my favor straight away.

Of course, the other party can then appeal and then it gets costly. Most of the time its really not worth it for them to appeal as the fine or judgement is so minor compared to the costs of a barrister and a legal team.

 

[flecc]

It's always best to rely on the sale of goods acts rather than warranties.

However, varying terms are the norm for parts of a bike, and indeed they exist on many other products. The three month warranty on electronic valves and CRT tubes of past home electronics being a well known example, the rest with the usual one year.

You'll see terms of six years, two years and one year on the Wisper warranty for another e-bike example.
.

 

[indalo]

I had a look at the Wisper warranty flecc and on the face of it, the terms seem to fit what I would expect from a reputable supplier unless there's a fuller version hidden deep in an extended version of T&C elsewhere with all the get-out clauses.

I'm sure David Miall will assuage any fears in that regard though.

Regards,
Indalo

 

[flecc]

I agree, David woud be likely to go beyond any warranty condition to help a customer, as witness his support even for those who've bought his products second-hand.
.

 

[eddieo]

Ive had two major issues requiring wheel/motor replacement etc... with 2 different 905 SE's. each where handled efficiently and without drama. And both bikes performed impeccably afterwards. I really think Davids presence on here and his genuine concern with protecting the brands reputation means Wisper owners will always be well served.....Simply a no brainer IMO

 

[indalo]

I'm not sure how to read that situation you describe eddieo. It's, on the one hand, very disappointing to hear of problems on two separate bikes from the same firm. On the other hand though, if the seller/dealer/importer is taking responsibility for the matters and actually resolving the issues to the customer's satisfaction within a reasonable time frame, that's to be applauded and should be disseminated widely.

I'm beginning to warm to D Miall with all the good stories I read from satisfied customers. I just wish he produced Panasonic crank-drive bikes as well as those hub-driven ones. Then I could be tempted!

Good God! It's just occurred to me that if he did, he'd probably corner the market in ebikes given the reports we read. I can think of much worse scenarios!

Regards,
Indalo

 

[Oxygen Bicycles]

Hi Indalo,

Sorry if our warranty terms confused you, I'll make sure the web is now all updated and written with language that is clear to everyone.

I can confirm now our warranty is 2 years for all electrics including the battery. Re the warranty claims I'm sure we are one of the most easy going companies here that do not argue with customers. If the bike goes wrong dealer will sort the problem out for you. If the dealer is not able to do it then we step in and sort this out for you. All I can assure is that we have never had any customer that was let down by our service and it won't be as long as I run this company.

Best regards

Andrew
Oxygen Bicycles

 

[Oxygen Bicycles]

Big Apologies re warranty confusion

Dear all,

Shame to say but I had a good look at our warranty terms. It does not make a sense to me and I make sure this will be updated within the short period of time. Myself I'm just a rider like you guys and if something goes wrong with any of our bikes I always make sure we get it sorted out asap. I don't follow the terms really and I hate T&C. I don't think you can built any good relationships with anyone by trying to trick someone into T&C so following the previous thread we are very easy going with customers if it comes to warranty claims. My biggest apologies to anyone who got confused and I 'll make sure it all sorted out asap.

all the best

Andrew
Oxygen Bicycles

 

[indalo]

That's probably a smart move Andrew. I'm sure you're entirely sincere and offer customers as good service as many others and you've probably got testimonials from satisfied customers.

The point, which you have obviously grasped, is there are other potential buyers out there, many of whom do concern themselves with the chapter and verse of warranty provisions. It seems to be a tough market for ebike sellers therefore it's of major importance that every aspect of business appears attractive to the consumer and can stand comparison with the competition.

I'm sure a revised warranty with few, unambiguous terms and conditions would find favour with forum readers, many of whom are extra-careful by nature and, in some cases, possibly pedantic about such matters. At this nascent stage in the ebike industry, word of mouth, (including words on paper as in forums like this) is hugely important in developing a reputation.

I wish you well, Andrew.

Indalo

 

[flecc]

I'm beginning to warm to D Miall with all the good stories I read from satisfied customers. I just wish he produced Panasonic crank-drive bikes as well as those hub-driven ones. Then I could be tempted!

David did make a Panasonic unit powered e-bike to try out the system, but concluded it didn''t fit their philosophy on what constituted an electric bike. This is consistent with what we always say of course, the two types are radically different.

Consistent with David as well, his principles taking priority.
.

 

[z0mb13e]

I've always taken a liking to companies who throw out the T&Cs that are full of clauses and legalese and put their intent to help their customers in plain and simple language often keeping it very short.

My favourite was a fledgling snowboard company that said (something like) If it breaks we'll fix it. If you break it, we might fix it. If it wears out, buy a new one! For me, this sets up so much good will that I wouldn't dream of trying my luck (not that I ever do, I'm just too honest I guess).

Whisper provides a great service often going above and beyond, and as is evident on this forum, has created a lot of good will and recommendations.

 

[Jon]

How good is that, could yo imagine Audi coming on a forum and saying you know what gus i think we may have this wrong the warranty terms just confused me we will change it asap

 

[flecc]

How good is that, could yo imagine Audi coming on a forum and saying you know what gus i think we may have this wrong the warranty terms just confused me we will change it asap

Yes, a great response from Andrew of Oxygen Bicycles.
.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I had a look at the Wisper warranty flecc and on the face of it, the terms seem to fit what I would expect from a reputable supplier unless there's a fuller version hidden deep in an extended version of T&C elsewhere with all the get-out clauses.

I'm sure David Miall will assuage any fears in that regard though.

Regards,
Indalo

Hi Indalo, thanks for your kind comments.

You are correct that is it there is nothing sinister lurking in the small print.

We do ask our customers to look after their batteries though, if a rider leaves a battery fully discharged for several weeks it could well be ruined. We do take our responsibilities very seriously but we also expect our customers to look after their bikes too. I suppose we are like the snow board guys, if we feel someone is taking advantage we stick our heels in a bit.

One day I will publish some of the amazing claims we have had!

Fortunately we do get everyone sorted out in the end!

All the best

David

 

[Oxygen Bicycles]

Warranty terms reviewed

Dear all,

I have modified our warranty terms. Here you can find our new warranty terms: Warranty on Oxygen Bicycles . I hope this will make everything clearer now but if anyone feels there are still points to review please do not hesitate to email me or send pm. Once again big apologies for any confusions caused.

all the best

Andrew
Oxygen Bicycles