in Germany, the ST2 is advertised as s-pedelec.
http://www.ebike-base.de/en/ebike/stromer-st2-sport-8236/
http://www.ebike-base.de/en/ebike/stromer-st2-sport-8236/
Has anyone tried to register an S-class in the UK?
- Thread starter Kudoscycles
- Start date
I think that some of the confusion stems from the fact that the Swiss, the Germans/Dutch and the Austrians had at one time their own different s-pedelec standards. Uniformity is very recent.
The ST1 has two versions: pedelec and s-pedelec. The ST2 only comes with a 500 W motor. Note that the tyres are Stromer specific Schwalbe Big Bens that are speed rated.
What I don't like is the direct drive motor, the Swiss are very fond of those (GoSwiss Drive). Regenerative braking makes a lot of sense in the Alps however, without it you would be changing brake pads and disks on a regular basis...
The ST1 has two versions: pedelec and s-pedelec. The ST2 only comes with a 500 W motor. Note that the tyres are Stromer specific Schwalbe Big Bens that are speed rated.
What I don't like is the direct drive motor, the Swiss are very fond of those (GoSwiss Drive). Regenerative braking makes a lot of sense in the Alps however, without it you would be changing brake pads and disks on a regular basis...
This from their site is what still makes me question and disbelieve what they are saying:
The ST2 offers motor assistance up to 45 km/h or 28 mph and a continuous rated power of 500 watts. The ST2 is thus legally a light motorcycle in class L1e with regard to Directive 2002/2004/EC. There is an obligation to register and insure vehicles of this category in most countries. Inform yourself of the related regulations to this class of vehicle in your country before riding for the first time.
First, it's definitely qualifies as an S class bike for anyone who want to use it as one.
Second, there is no L1e class as such, they need to say L1e-B but seem to be avoiding that. Why?
Third, they are quoting a long out of date type approval document, no longer in force. Not only that, they've even stated it's title incorrectly. That's not competent, indicating that they don't even understand the regulations.
Fourth, the advice about checking the local regulations, the L1e-B class is EU wide.
The illustrations and specs on site are incomplete, but I see no evidence of a stoplight, rear number plate illumination, or horn, all necessary to meet the L1e-B requirements for type approval.
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I find all this puzzling, and no better than what 50cycles have been saying about the Kalkhoff S class bikes. I'd like to see one actually registered, something that hasn't been demonstrated with the Kalkhoff bikes yet after years of 50cycles making this same claim.
I'm sure the truth is that it's not possible.
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The ST2 offers motor assistance up to 45 km/h or 28 mph and a continuous rated power of 500 watts. The ST2 is thus legally a light motorcycle in class L1e with regard to Directive 2002/2004/EC. There is an obligation to register and insure vehicles of this category in most countries. Inform yourself of the related regulations to this class of vehicle in your country before riding for the first time.
First, it's definitely qualifies as an S class bike for anyone who want to use it as one.
Second, there is no L1e class as such, they need to say L1e-B but seem to be avoiding that. Why?
Third, they are quoting a long out of date type approval document, no longer in force. Not only that, they've even stated it's title incorrectly. That's not competent, indicating that they don't even understand the regulations.
Fourth, the advice about checking the local regulations, the L1e-B class is EU wide.
The illustrations and specs on site are incomplete, but I see no evidence of a stoplight, rear number plate illumination, or horn, all necessary to meet the L1e-B requirements for type approval.
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I find all this puzzling, and no better than what 50cycles have been saying about the Kalkhoff S class bikes. I'd like to see one actually registered, something that hasn't been demonstrated with the Kalkhoff bikes yet after years of 50cycles making this same claim.
I'm sure the truth is that it's not possible.
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Helen,the accusation that because someone talks about S-Pedelecs or any other non EAPC conversation on your forum is promoting criminal activity is complete rubbish.
However,I must say that all the abuse that seems to come from a couple of members is affecting the friendly nature of this forum and starting to leave me cold about contributing to it,I know that Cyclezee and David of Amps feels similar.
I also have been trying to get out of VOSA the actual mechanism of how you register an S-class to L1e-A ,despite presenting it as simple as possible they appeared either disinterested or lacked understanding. 50 cycles and just e-bikes still state on their websites that their S-class bikes can be UK light moped registered,but when challenged how to do so,they stop posting.
Hence why I asked had a customer tried-no response so far,so we must assume that you cannot register to L1e-A.
With regard to the matter of the legality of 15,5 mph throttles,the communications from the Dft are so ambiguous that I question whether the government understand the current situation themselves.
KudosDave
Only posting this purely for interest, not making any points or starting an argument.
I think any bike could be registered eventually through the SVA system( MVSA) It would not be possible to do so as an S class pedelec simply because as yet that catagory does not exist in UK.
There is one for light moped...so even without certificate of conformity you could get details required to pass the MSVA for the particular class required but when you have anything to do with what was SVA you do question the sense of EU/ UK law..
For example..
The emission standards for a motorbike are different to those of cars.
If you take a brand new engine from a bike ( which must have passed equivalent of SVA) and stick it in a car, hey presto it fails emissions.. Cure fit power commander and a catylitic converter. Result pass SVA but engine well down on power..OK remove cat and up mixture on power commander. Car fine for future MOT but you,ve now got a £400 hand built cat unused. Answer...rent it out to folk wanting to pass SVA...believe it or not all legal !
Once spoke to examiner whilst waiting for a car I was having SVA,d. He was testing Mitsubishi FTO Grey Import.
" Look here, I marked these wheels last week , seen them 6 times now."
The standard wheels fail SVA ( on radius of corners) Firm bringing cars in from Japan had one set of compliant wheels. They went on every car !
At one point firms were hiring out an SVA kit. Including nut covers, compliant wheels, emission equipment,seats...whatever you needed. Pass SVA , remove and return kit...car still passes less stringent mot !! All legal.
All crazy ..
But you get your bit of paper to prove how legal you are !!!
I think any bike could be registered eventually through the SVA system( MVSA) It would not be possible to do so as an S class pedelec simply because as yet that catagory does not exist in UK.
There is one for light moped...so even without certificate of conformity you could get details required to pass the MSVA for the particular class required but when you have anything to do with what was SVA you do question the sense of EU/ UK law..
For example..
The emission standards for a motorbike are different to those of cars.
If you take a brand new engine from a bike ( which must have passed equivalent of SVA) and stick it in a car, hey presto it fails emissions.. Cure fit power commander and a catylitic converter. Result pass SVA but engine well down on power..OK remove cat and up mixture on power commander. Car fine for future MOT but you,ve now got a £400 hand built cat unused. Answer...rent it out to folk wanting to pass SVA...believe it or not all legal !
Once spoke to examiner whilst waiting for a car I was having SVA,d. He was testing Mitsubishi FTO Grey Import.
" Look here, I marked these wheels last week , seen them 6 times now."
The standard wheels fail SVA ( on radius of corners) Firm bringing cars in from Japan had one set of compliant wheels. They went on every car !
At one point firms were hiring out an SVA kit. Including nut covers, compliant wheels, emission equipment,seats...whatever you needed. Pass SVA , remove and return kit...car still passes less stringent mot !! All legal.
All crazy ..
But you get your bit of paper to prove how legal you are !!!
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D8veh....but even a cursory glance at the ST2 reveals it cannot be registered as an L1e-A,it doesn't have a proper motorbike headlamp,indicators,number plate plus I am sure many other details.
The bike that has the correct German type approval is the Sachs Prima e,as you can see this has all the features that you would expect of an electric moped.
The same applies to the Kalkhoff,Bulls these may have type approval of some type in Germany but that approval cannot be directly transferred to obtain UK light moped approval.
Which is why nobody has managed to register these bikes.
It should be possible to design a bicycle looking (as opposed to moped looking) L1e-A 1000 watt electric bicycle....do you fancy having a go? The danger is it may look ugly,a pastiche of product that don't sit well together.
KudosDave
D
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Someone's going to have to put their £5000 down. It's out of you and Flecc, Dave. Ip dip dogs sh.......................................
Dave
Yes it does have a dipping Supernova headlamp with daytime running lights which can be fitted to any moped, Supernova is marketing it to petrol powered moped manufacturers too. Indicators are not mandatory on mopeds in France there is a numberplate holder with plate lighting and brake lights working with both brake levers and a moped approved rear view mirror as well as special build tyres with a speed rating. It also has rounded brake levers and Magura moped approved hydraulic disk brakes and the list goes on.
It really is a moped with an electric motor as d8veh said.
I could do, but I don't want one, I'd get no value from an S class bike, I prefer to be well below 20mph most of the time when cycling.
Stromer are clearly confused. The law 2002/2004/EC has never existed, I assume they mean 2002/24/EC. However, being from 2003, that long predates the ST2. If the ST2 really had been type approved to L1e-B, it would have been to 168/2013.
These details alone tell me that there's something suspicious about their type approval to L1e-B, the certificate of conformity they have seems the same as that 50cycles have for the Kalkhoffs, which is for the S class.
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But odd they are not showing it in that form? Also, why so wrong about the type approval details, see my post just above.
I'm satisfied that the bikes shown on their website are not type approved as shown. As the saying goes, seeing is believing, and I'll believe it when they advertise and show a type approved model.
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Hi Helen,
Try direct emailing Claire Rees or Mike Lowe at the DfT, they should know the answer as they have been the UK representatives at the MCWG meetings and should be fully aware of the latest requirements. The next one is due on the 11 May 2016 ( the scheduled one for April appears to have been cancelled) where it looks like they will be finalizing the 4 delegated regulations.
I don't know who represents the UK at the Expert meetings as there doesn't seem to be any transparency to publish the minutes of these meetings where the list of attendees can be found.
Timetable for the 4 delegated regulations - from the Jan 16 expert meeting:
5.Timing amendments (2/3)
• Amendments Delegated Acts RVFSR, RVCR and REPPR
Member State (MS) expert meeting (endorsement):28 Jan 16
Inter-service consultation:9 Feb 16
Translation:Feb - April 16
EC adoption:May 16
Objection period Council and EP (2 months):June-July 16
Publication and entry into force:August 16
6.Timing amendments (3/3)
• Implementing act RAR
• Second presentationin MSEG meeting:28 Jan 16
• Inter-service consultation:Jan–Feb 16
• Translation:March–May 16
• Vote TCMV meeting:June 16
• EC adoption and publication in OJ:July 16
• Entry-into-force:August 16
I can not find any details of these meeting past or present - TCMV meeting:June 16
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If the bike comes with a CoC it should ( big word) be fairly straight forward.. It won't be..
So first question would be does the bike in question have a CoC ????
If not its not end of world (more so if we leave Europe)
Under pressure from very low volume kit car priducers(.ie they,d go bust) there was ( is) a way around for partial MSVA.( essentially benefitting home builders but car/ bike can not be reg out side UK)
I thought scheme was still operating.
( ie builders I know using it are sttill going.
So first question would be does the bike in question have a CoC ????
If not its not end of world (more so if we leave Europe)
Under pressure from very low volume kit car priducers(.ie they,d go bust) there was ( is) a way around for partial MSVA.( essentially benefitting home builders but car/ bike can not be reg out side UK)
I thought scheme was still operating.
( ie builders I know using it are sttill going.
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I keep saying tamper proof.I can't find that in the MSVA manual now.I'm sure that I read that some where. I even had a plan how to make my display tamper Proof.You got to laugh at the 16 mph,can't find any info on 10% extra.And I thought the speedometer had to be tested to be within 5% accuratce,can't find that now.
If I
They are really down to earth , most ex mechanics.
Could be the CoC for a partial ( ie UK only) would be sufficient to reg as light moped. ??? Rules might say different but those on coal face might bend a bit..Worth a visit. There are stations all over.
If I wanted to do one I,d go and see an examiner at a station. They have to enforce "laws" but its always been my experience they want to get you through test. ( one helped me change brake discs)
They are really down to earth , most ex mechanics.
Could be the CoC for a partial ( ie UK only) would be sufficient to reg as light moped. ??? Rules might say different but those on coal face might bend a bit..Worth a visit. There are stations all over.
No chance, as those who've tried and had to jump through hoops to succeed have showed.
The problem is the omissions. If an S class bike is presented, it lacks the following mandatory items:
Rear View Mirror to spec.
Stop light operating from either brake.
Rear number plate illumination.
Moped type horn.
Motor vehicle rated tyres.
No tester valuing his job will nod though a bike without mandatory items. In any case it would be irresponsible since it would leave the owner liable to prosecution for using in that state. After all, any bike with a number plate will be a traffic police magnet, and they won't fail to notice the omissions.
In addition to the above, S class bike headlights don't normally meet the L1e-B beam requirements.
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