"Infineum Extreme" question

[morphix]

I have the Infineum Extreme ebike on my short-list of bikes I'm interested in purchasing... mainly because of it's extremely light batteries (1.8kg) which are far easier to carry around.

Although these batteries are only rated 6.5A. I would probably buy a second battery if I got the Infineum.. Can I assume having the two batteries stacked together would double the available current and give 13A?

I'm a bit worried that the front-wheel drive hub on the Infineum might not handle as good as a rear hub, it's strange they opted for front-wheel when most manufacturers now seem to use rear.

If anyone else has any experiences or comments on this bike or the manufacturer, good or bad, I'd love to hear them.

 

[Scatty]

i tried one of these when they first came out & the best i could find on it was the front shocks (Rock Shocks), the battery was not fitted on properly it rattled in its holder causing it to cut out over bumps the led display was tied on with tie wraps, the battery price was over £400 per battery that means you would have to spend £1600 for it to go over 40 miles. the Frame looked very cheap too. Personally not a good bike There is Loads Better

 

[flecc]

I'm a bit worried that the front-wheel drive hub on the Infineum might not handle as good as a rear hub, it's strange they opted for front-wheel when most manufacturers now seem to use rear.

Although the Infineon doesn't impress me, the choice of front motor is not a problem. Wisper have chosen front motor now for their top of the range bikes, eZee at the quality end have too, on all but one model. The Panasonic hub motor is front wheel, likewise all the many e-bikes using the Tongxin motor. The longest established of all, Powabyke, now use front motors all the time.

The problem with rear hub motors is that they must use the inferior multi-sprocket freewheels for their derailleur gears. Front and centre motor bikes can use the much better cassette based derailleurs, or any kind of hub gears.
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[morphix]

flecc, thanks for the reply..your answer reads like manufacturers are starting to maybe have a bias towards front wheel hub drive, at least on top end bikes, or have I got it wrong?

 

[Tim]

Is there any truth in the idea that front hub motors make for a rougher ride, because the mass of the motor bobbing up and down increases the amplitude of shocks felt in your hands and arms?

There's also the problem of stringing out the drive train along the bike. The power/control cable leading to the front hub was a frequent cause of failure - constant twisting and rubbing can play havoc with the wires inside. At least for rear hubs this is eliminated.

Handling can be a bit peculiar as well, with what felt like gyroscopic effects going on sometimes. The Gocycle feels a little odd to steer, there's a definite bias towards turning in one direction rather than the other in my experience.

However, one advantage of front hub motors I used to enjoy back when I rode eZees a lot was the 2x2 traction in poor conditions, particularly useful at the 2007 Glastonbury mud festival.

 

[eddieo]

I think rear hub bikes will always be popular, I have not liked the front hub bikes I have tried that much. BionX and Wisper will still have them..The 905 SE is one of my favourite bikes, even if I splash out on a swiss flyer I will always have one.......

 

[flecc]

Yes, as Tim says, front hub motors do have some potential disadvantages.

However, when coupled to suitable designed frames and sometimes front suspension, many of these are alleviated. This is particularly true of the small, light, moderate power motors like the Tongxin Nano design which are usually only seen in front wheels where they aren't much different from hub dynamos in their very small effects on handling etc.

I personally much prefer to have the motor in the rear wheel on a hub motor bike, but the gearing compromises that entails really are a major problem at present. In this respect front hub or a centre motor are far better options for those who need a better range of gear choices.
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[stormb22]

infineum forget it !

i owned one of these back last year and ended up selling it after 6 months ,the battery came loose all the time and using 2 batteries would not get me to work (22 mile round trip) just using pedelec.i know the manufactures base the range on a 75 kg rider on flat ground but the range was nowhere near what they quoted the first bike i used was a powacycle salisbury and there was not much difference in quality between the two except for the saddle & forks .the problem with the batteries on these is they just cannot handle vibration being on the rear rack and when you stack them it becomes even worst. i would forget powacycle theres much better bikes out there.

 

[Mussels]

Is there any truth in the idea that front hub motors make for a rougher ride, because the mass of the motor bobbing up and down increases the amplitude of shocks felt in your hands and arms?

I certainly haven't noticed this on the Wisper 906 and most of the time I can't tell any difference between front and back hub motors, I have noticed a couple of problems with the front hub though.
1. when pulling away quickly the wheel can spin a little, it hasn't caused a problem so far but doesn't give me confidence if the conditions get really bad. I'll have an update on this when it starts snowing.
2. I have to walk up a ramp into the car park at work and the front spins a lot doing this, it reaches the walk along throttle limit and cuts out leaving me to push all the weight myself. OK normally but my cycle shoes don't have a great grip to start with and I struggle a bit.

The big advantage of the front hub motor as has already been mentioned is the better choice of gears, this is what sold it to me and so far I think the trade off is worth it. If a way is found to increase the gear range with a rear hub motor then I'd not know which to go for, hub gears are great for low maintenance but I prefer the ride with derailleurs.

 

[Pedalo]

I have noticed a couple of problems with the front hub though.
1. when pulling away quickly the wheel can spin a little, it hasn't caused a problem so far but doesn't give me confidence if the conditions get really bad. I'll have an update on this when it starts snowing.

I experienced this for the first time ever this morning though only for about half a second. I was pulling away on a big pile of freshly fallen Autumn leaves!

 

[jbond]

The problem with rear hub motors is that they must use the inferior multi-sprocket freewheels for their derailleur gears. Front and centre motor bikes can use the much better cassette based derailleurs, or any kind of hub gears..

Um. This is news to me. A Shimano 7 speed gearset is adequate quality, surely? Are you talking about the mounting method eg spline with locknut vs screw on gearset?

[edited to add] Never mind, I went to Sheldon's site and now understand. I'm not sure how much of an issue this really is on ebikes though. I still think a 7-speed Shimano screw on gearset is perfectly adequate.

 

[LafRo]

In our shop we do sell Sparta and Batavus pedelecs. They have a direct drive rear wheel motor with a screw on 7 speed Shimano freewheel.
Because of the motor in the rear wheel there is little strain on the chain.
The chainset needs replacing between 7000 and 12000km depending on the maintenance of the chain. So I think this is a respectable milage for a freewheel set. Because it is 7 speed the sprockets are thicker than the 8. 9 or 10 speed cassettes. Almost every cassette (cheap or expensive) cannot reach the milage this freewheel has.

 

[flecc]

Um. This is news to me. A Shimano 7 speed gearset is adequate quality, surely? Are you talking about the mounting method eg spline with locknut vs screw on gearset?

[edited to add] Never mind, I went to Sheldon's site and now understand. I'm not sure how much of an issue this really is on ebikes though. I still think a 7-speed Shimano screw on gearset is perfectly adequate.

As Mussels says, with multi-sprocket freewheels the choice is much more restricted, the range of options very limited and even those still made often not easy to source. Also it's gear range as much as anything which suffers. Those of us in very steep hill areas often like to have both low enough gears to handle the harsh climbs while having high enough to gears to add pedalling to gain very high downhill speeds. Shimano attempt to solve this problem with their Megarange freewheels, but the huge step up from a 24 tooth to a 34 tooth sprocket between the two lowest gears is a very poor solution for many and they still only provide a 260% gear range at best.

With respect to Robert in Holland, areas with extremely steep hills are not conditions they usually meet over there. The 7 speed freewheel is fine on the narrow direct drive motors like the poor-on-hills Sparta that he mentions, but for width reasons not so suitable for the wider internally geared motors that are far more suitable for hill climbing ability.

With regard to the longevity of the multi-sprocket freewheels, Shimano's HG 7 speed model has better bearings than most, many multi-sprocket freewheels have only inadequate inboard bearings which can wear fast and fail early.
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[jbond]

Well, I've got a 7 speed Megarange on a Bafang BPM hub. Most of the geared rear hub motors allow up to a 7 speed gearset. I agree about the megarange. If you've got 2 or more front chainrings, it's all a bit pointless. 26" wheel, 34t front, 28t rear is going to deal with pretty much any hill you meet.

 

[flecc]

Well, I've got a 7 speed Megarange on a Bafang BPM hub. Most of the geared rear hub motors allow up to a 7 speed gearset. I agree about the megarange. If you've got 2 or more front chainrings, it's all a bit pointless. 26" wheel, 34t front, 28t rear is going to deal with pretty much any hill you meet.

Obviously your frame is wide enough for the 7 speed and Bafang motor, some aren't. I've just about managed to a squeeze a 6 speed Megarange and Bafang into my current bike, but being a short rear frame 20" wheel bike I had to break and re-weld two frame joints to get enough width. Not something most could entertain.

On gear range, so many e-bikes don't permit two chainrings, partly due it not being possible to fit the front changer and on some the impossibility of getting front to rear chain alignment. My other rear hub motor bike had both of these problems, though by frame reshaping I overcame the alignment one.

26" wheel, 34t front, 28t rear is going to deal with pretty much any hill you meet.

Not if you are in you're in your mid 70s and have the odd 1 in 5, 1 in 4 and even a 1 in 3.3 hill to cope with!

We come in all varieties and the older ones are more common in the e-bike world.
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[Mussels]

Well, I've got a 7 speed Megarange on a Bafang BPM hub. Most of the geared rear hub motors allow up to a 7 speed gearset. I agree about the megarange. If you've got 2 or more front chainrings, it's all a bit pointless. 26" wheel, 34t front, 28t rear is going to deal with pretty much any hill you meet.

I found out pretty quickly that the megarange gear is lousy in for hills. The first time I went up a steep hill I changed down into 2nd and carried on a bit, then I changed down into 1st and my legs couldn't spin fast enough so I lost a load of speed. Same for setting off on a hill, you get going in 1st but can't change into 2nd as the jump is too much.