Long Term Test Outcome - eZee battery

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Members aware that I've been conducting a confidential long term intensive test over the last six months have been variously guessing what I'm testing, and those who guessed battery have been right. When asked at the start of the year if I would be interested in doing this, the answer was obviously yes. Who would say no to free battery usage for half a year, but I trust no-one will think this a corrupt inducement. :)

Given the poor record of lithium bike batteries with regard to current delivery failure and short life, I was determined to give this one hell on earth, so I chose to test on the Q-bike, riding it Quando fashion all the time, resolutely refusing to pedal unless absolutely necessary just short of stalling. Every day included at least one 20% climb and at least one long climb over a minimum of three miles, and most days there were two rides, on the odd occasion three. A very few trips were short, but the many used all or most of the charge. There were half a dozen days when the weather was too bad for long rides, and for those I rigged up a two hour rate discharger, using it twice on those days, so the battery was never rested throughout the six months.

The total distance ridden was 3784 miles (5558 km) with 226 charges, similar to a years usage by a five day a week commuter doing over 15 miles a day.

Early in the test on a warm January day I did a range check on a carefully planned route that had it's final miles very flat to ensure battery cutout would be due to it's being empty rather than cut out by a sudden high loading, and the distance covered was 23.2 miles, including plenty of climbing and a 20% hill, no pedalling except just enough on that steep hill to prevent stalling.

I've now completed a repeat of the identical trip, the distance to cutout being 19.97 miles, indicating a capacity loss of 13.9%. For a year's equivalent usage on lithium this is excellent, especially given the very rough treatment it's received, including it being being smashed into two on it's trip from China and used ever since bandaged back together with duct tape. The original expert predictions for lithium were for a loss of 33% per annum. The range and charge time indicate the one I was testing is about 14 Ah, which if I'd been pedalling as well would normally get me 40 miles or more, since my 10 Ah one reaches over 30 miles normally

There are two types of this new generation battery, a 4.6 kilo Li-ion Manganese which I've been testing, made by Phylion, the company who made the failed early eZee batteries but who've clearly come on a long way since that 2006 design, and a 3.3 kilo Li-polymer made by another company being tested elsewhere in the same way, and the results have been as good on both types.

Some of the Phylion batteries appeared in prototypes for a tentative new manufacturer's e-bike, and over the last six months eZee have shipped around 1000 of these batteries worldwide as warranty replacements and in an order completion, and with both types performing as well, eZee will be adopting the lighter 3.3 kg polymer one in future. I'm told the interim Sanyo battery is to be discontinued since there have been difficulties in getting adequate supplies.

So at long last we can look forward to using the performance of these high powered bikes without the constant fear of battery cutouts and short life. I can't say at the moment when supplies will be available, but no doubt eZee or Cyclepoint will announce the arrival of the first stocks.

Footnote: Hardly pedalling for six months has been tedious, my fitness has suffered and I'm looking forward to spinning once again instead of being slumped on the saddle like a sack of spuds for hours every day. :(
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rsscott

Administrator
Staff member
Aug 17, 2006
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Excellent work (;)) Flecc, I'm sure many of us can't wait for pricing and availability !
 

aaannndddyyy

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 7, 2007
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Norwich Norfolk
Flecc 3784 miles without pedalling not something I would do even with a promise of a free battery.
There looks like batteries are improving in leaps and bounds at the moment with lithium-ion(lifepo4), Li-ion Manganese, and Li-polymer all promising bigger storage capacity, longer run times, and longer life cycles, is there a place for them all or will one come out on top, i.e. like Betamax, VHS,
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Flecc 3784 miles without pedalling not something I would do even with a promise of a free battery.
There looks like batteries are improving in leaps and bounds at the moment with lithium-ion(lifepo4), Li-ion Manganese, and Li-polymer all promising bigger storage capacity, longer run times, and longer life cycles, is there a place for them all or will one come out on top, i.e. like Betamax, VHS,
For bike manufacturers I think it will be Li-polymer for the present and LiFePO4 following some while later.

I understand that most e-bike distributors favour Li-polymer, and their opinion will be influential.
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oldosc

Pedelecer
May 12, 2008
207
10
Members aware that I've been conducting a confidential long term intensive test over the last six months have been variously guessing what I'm testing, and those who guessed battery have been right. When asked at the start of the year if I would be interested in doing this, the answer was obviously yes. Who would say no to free battery usage for half a year, but I trust no-one will think this a corrupt inducement.
You must be joking, you get six months free battery use , and all you have to do is to sit on a bike for six months WITHOUT EVEN PEDALING, cover 3748 miles, write a bitty report (you dont even go out in the rain much by the sound of it).
I will leave it up to the non corruptly induced forum members to comment on this...

Do you think, the battery on Lady J's silverado is of this ilk....(post passem)..I have a little trouble with this bike..so far she has out-performed me on all five trips, me on the |Agattu and her on the diddy bike, the only consolation is range...on the trip when I had a puncture..Her Silverado collapsed at 22 KM (of brutal hills) whilst my Aggatu had 2 lights showing.
I know that's an appaling piece of data (maybe only anecdotal) BUT Lady J is not a v strong biker, and I am amazed how much help the motor is for her)

ps as an ex engineer You must be aware of the esteem I hold this piece of research in.. salve ..Oldosc
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Thanks Oldosc, I know of course. :) The important thing is that Lady J gets enough help over the distance she covers, and that seems to be the case for her.

I should stress that I wasn't asked to test in the way I did, I was merely asked to use the battery in the way I normally would. However, given the grief lithium batteries have caused so many people, I wasn't going to let it get nodded though on my normal fairly light usage, hence the torture treatment.

27 degrees today, so I've just had a drive down to Ashdown Forest in my climate controlled air conditioned limo where there was a nice breeze across the heathland. Pleasant change from the bike, could get too used to it. :cool:
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Sector

Pedelecer
Mar 5, 2007
102
0
Leicestershire Le8
Good work.

Good work Flecc. I've tried not turning the pedals and it is much harder than one would think.

I'm very pleased that Phylion seem to have sorted out their problem.

I wonder if the Phylion lithium ion I got hold of on the 02/01/08 is the same type as you have been testing.

My battery is labelled:
Phylion High Energy Battery
XH370-10J
It also has a 12 character alphanumeric serial number.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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It could be, but the type number labels weren't changed or the number of serial number characters, since these were not part of a permanent contract to supply due to the need for testing over time.

Regardless, the Phylions produced from mid 2007 on were greatly improved anyway, but they were 10 Ah. If your range is the same as you got when the bike was new, it won't be this type, since this one's larger capacity would add about 40% to the distance.
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john

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 1, 2007
531
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Manchester
I've now completed a repeat of the identical trip, the distance to cutout being 19.97 miles, indicating a capacity loss of 13.9%. For a year's equivalent usage
Flecc, Do you think it would be the same for 12 calender months? I think we have seen Lithium battery degrading due to time alone as well as use. I'd be interested in your thoughts on that.
 

HarryB

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 22, 2007
1,317
3
London
Good work Flecc. I've tried not turning the pedals and it is much harder than one would think.

I'm very pleased that Phylion seem to have sorted out their problem.

I wonder if the Phylion lithium ion I got hold of on the 02/01/08 is the same type as you have been testing.

My battery is labelled:
Phylion High Energy Battery
XH370-10J
It also has a 12 character alphanumeric serial number.
My original replacement battery (early 2007) has the same number as this, as does the replacement I had to buy in November 2007. I have been very impressed with the replacement battery although to be fair I have never really tested the range. It shows no sign of aging having done 20 miles most working days up until I got my Agattu (in the last month really). I was told that it was only the bms that had been changed but as the last two batteries began to die at around the 5-7 month stage I think that there must have been a bigger change.

It is a shame as for me it all came a bit late as I lost confidence in the batteries and decided to jump ship. The replacement battery was a stop gap to get me by, but then the Agattus with their 2 year battery guarantee clinched the deal.

Any idea of the guarantee out of interest?
 

HarryB

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 22, 2007
1,317
3
London
By the way A to B gave a mention about the battery test in the last issue - I didn't want to say anything as I know you didn't want talk about your testing. Good work anyway I am sure new Ezee owner will have a lot more confidence in their batteries now.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Flecc, Do you think it would be the same for 12 calender months? I think we have seen Lithium battery degrading due to time alone as well as use. I'd be interested in your thoughts on that.
I would think there'd be some small further loss John, but given that the best examples that have been around for a while like Panasonic-Sanyo and BionX batteries with very little loss reported, I don't think it will necessarily be serious. When questions were asked about the BionX battery in here some while ago, some responses indicated no readily detectable loss in range at over two years old. I've also never seen complaints on the types of Panasonic units using lithium for more years than that.

50cycles may also have some relevant information, since they imported the Panasonic Will and Honda Step Compo Li-ion folding e-bikes in 2004, and I know that Tim has still been riding the Step Compo around London at times. It's highly unlikely they will have bought a new battery from Japan, so there's a life indication of nearing four years for those top grade batteries, meaning low loss over time.
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,819
30,381
By the way A to B gave a mention about the battery test in the last issue - I didn't want to say anything as I know you didn't want talk about your testing. Good work anyway I am sure new Ezee owner will have a lot more confidence in their batteries now.
Yes, I saw that Hal, from which you'll gather that I'd been in touch there.

I don't know about any guarantee change, but I wouldn't be surprised at unwillingness to break ranks, and so sticking with six months which is the most widespread. Personally I don't think guarantees matter quite so much now since indications are that these batteries will sail past a year and probably be usable at two years or more as you'll see from my reply to John above.

Although I haven't mentioned it above since I didn't want it to appear I was hypeing it, the outstanding thing for me has been the power delivery of this test battery. Pointing it at the toughest of long climbs with a standing start, it slogs up without ever showing the slightest sign of tiring through chemical exhaustion, very different from previous versions, and even now that has changed very little.
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Matt

Pedelecer
Apr 11, 2008
29
0
Flecc, Do you think it would be the same for 12 calender months? I think we have seen Lithium battery degrading due to time alone as well as use. I'd be interested in your thoughts on that.
First off, a great job you did testing the battery, you must have been dying of bordom at some points.

This was going to be my question and I know you've already answered. I'm now onto my 5th battery for one of my laptops. (it's 5 years old now) What I found was it didn' really make too much of a difference how frequently I discharged it, until it was around 9 months old, and then if I discharged it down to below 10% after that it would really kill it and I would need a new one.

It would be great if you continued with the testing for a few more months to see what happens, or perhaps even better, just test it on occasions so you're basically just testing the effects of age and not use.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Some days it was really boring Matt, but luckily the countryside is pleasant round here and I know many of the local farmers so I'm not always alone while out.

My original laptop battery is nearly four years old* now, and I often discharge it fully without failure. I'm wondering if your experience is something to do with the BMS on your laptop.

I doubt if there'd be any problem like that on this battery given the many types that do last for much longer as said. However, it may not be in my hands, this one was intended to go back to China for lab checks on capacity etc. Given the good results that may not happen, and if not I'll continue using it so will find out in time.

I just can't see any possibility of that though, given how strong it remains I'd bet on it going to well over 400 charges as I'm well past half that, and 400 to 500 charges is a normal life for Li-ion manganese. Remember that many of the charges I've done have been full ones since I've been riding with my battery spare in the pannier so able to empty the test battery to cutout on many rides.

* I use cold storage for the periods when it's not in use for some while.
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WaiWonChing

Pedelecer
Nov 27, 2007
55
0
Chief eZee Operator

Hi,

Sometimes I read with great astonishment how people one would purchase a pack of battery for example a LiFePO4, and if it did well, and results posted, and then there is a chorus of cheers and hand clapping.

My company spent a lot of money and time testing batteries, you could get SEVERAL samples tested out well, and then even, a few lots, with hundreds of packs or even over a thousand packs without any problems (except certain mishandling such as bad soldering or something) , and then suddenly disaster strike. There are of course many factors that could screw up the battery in the manufacturing, the purity of the chemical composition, the particle size and particle sizes distribution, the thickness of the coatings, the separators and etc and etc. Therefore, I know it is very critical to find and source from a extremely well managed company, and even then there is still no guarantee, as what happened to us with some deliveries of Phylion. Those that does not pass the scrutiny I do on paper first would not get tested in my company, there is simply no point to waste the time and money.

Example I have tested LiFePO4 since more than 2 years ago, and continue to test them as new producers appears. But we don't simply jump into it if a couple of units looks OK. You will be suprised how big names in this product failed with 50 cycles when they were promising 1000 or more.

Then beside laboratory tests , we need to do field tests, and this is more difficult, so I picked a couple of customers who have exceptional experience and expertise like Flecc, and some customers who have terrible experience with our batteries but enough standing to give me a fair and truthful report without the aim to destroy me if it still goes wrong.

Now, to easily read the mysterious codes on the Phylion battery , it is very simple . Example The serial no. S/N: JGJHBF 100082 = 070826 = 2007, Aug, 26th the 82nd battery of the day.
J is 0 , ABCD... is 1234 and the last 2 digits is the nos. of battery done that day.

eZee is now delivering Li+ polymer battery. We made no new contract in 2008 for Phylion battery pending on the final outcome of the 1000 pieces that has been 'corrected' we are still delivering from 2007 contract until end July 2008 to some countries. I will decide on Phylion again when I see results for 1000 units, and some of them under the microscope.

As of 2008, we give warranty on the battery for 12 months up to 70% DOD discharged at 0.5C or 5 amps.

Wishing everyone a good time with their electric bikes.
W W Ching
 

Matt

Pedelecer
Apr 11, 2008
29
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Thanks Flecc. The laptop I have basically has a desktop processor in it which I don't think helps as it puts a lots of strain on the battery.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Thanks for that coding information Wai Won, I hadn't realised the alpha-numeric significance.

Also that improved warranty cover, though hopefully that won't be needed given how well my test one has performed.

I well remember Ken mentioning the LiFePO4 trialling but nothing coming of it.
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,819
30,381
Thanks Flecc. The laptop I have basically has a desktop processor in it which I don't think helps as it puts a lots of strain on the battery.
That's true Matt. I've been tempted to upgrade a few times but still struggle on with an early version 1.6 Celeron, but don't have to use it too much.
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