Sevenoaks Electric Bikes

[Woosh]

If I'm ever in Southend I'll buy you a coffee and you can educate me!

Did you mean Sevenoaks? I am on the other side of the Thames.

 

[Az.]

you would think they would be the people best capable of judging such things.

Would you? For starters this guy was saying CYC X1 Stealth has something like street legal mode. No, it is not a legal motor. It also costs a fortune unfortunately.

It is also a very unfair comparison. One motor is rated 250W, another is 1500W. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to determine which will perform better.

 

[portals]

I'd like to see a Woosh vid of someone riding the 2 same bikes mentioned above (mid vs hub), and see which performs best up hills with same 250W power and battery?

 

[Woosh]

a couple of hundreds metres from my shop is Piers Hill. It's not very high, about 50m-70m elevation but it's a short, straight up the cliff climb. Most hub motors will struggle without the rider's help.

 

[portals]

So I could sail up that hill easily at 15mph with my rear hub even with a stop then start. It's not wreckless to accelerate away from say lights and up a steep hill (with throttle to get you started then pedalling and moving up thro' PAS from 1->5 in a few seconds), this is the experience I hoped for when looking in to ebikes, I wouldn't care these days if it's limited to 15.5mph but I want the power to get up hills, no messing about, that's my main requirement and probably many others who are getting 'older'...!

 

[sjpt]

I wouldn't care these days if it's limited to 15.5mph but I want the power to get up hills, no messing about, that's my main requirement and probably many others who are getting 'older'...!

I agree with that. Especially important is the ability to start on a steep hill. See Chris Juden's thread on Cycle UK forum. https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=157613

 

[portals]

Thanks for the link, I didn't read all the posts (crikey 4 pages+), but from what I've gathered disabled people are feeling bumped by the lack of power available to them if they end up having to stop on a hill/gradient of any significance with the anaemic currently legal motors most of them have.

Maybe they need to look in to the blue badge system and if you have one are given grace to say up to 750W/1000W motor on your ebike/trike etc....which granted might introduce other problems...for example when the grandkids visit and they want a shot....

 

[flecc]

Maybe they need to look in to the blue badge system and if you have one are given grace to say up to 750W/1000W motor on your ebike/trike etc....which granted might introduce other problems...for example when the grandkids visit and they want a shot....

No need to look since bicycle based 1000 watt machines are already permitted. They are limited to the identical 15.5 mph and are L1e-A mopeds, informally known as Low Powered Mopeds. A minimum group Q driving licence and third party insurance are necessary, but they are necessary for any disabled person using a motor vehicle, so there couldn't be an exemption.
.

 

[guerney]

So I could sail up that hill easily at 15mph with my rear hub even with a stop then start. It's not wreckless to accelerate away from say lights and up a steep hill (with throttle to get you started then pedalling and moving up thro' PAS from 1->5 in a few seconds), this is the experience I hoped for when looking in to ebikes, I wouldn't care these days if it's limited to 15.5mph but I want the power to get up hills, no messing about, that's my main requirement and probably many others who are getting 'older'...!

When I remember to change to a very low gear, hill starts at traffic lights are no problem for my 20" wheeled BBS01B mid drive conversion, with the controller limited to 15A... 52T>32T sometimes, which is my lowest gear. When the throttle was still on the bike, I'd simply activate it while slowing down and not pedalling, shifting down through the gears before stopping, the gear sensor keeping the motor switched off as it did so between gear changes. No crunches even when rapidly moving three or four gears down, or the whole 7 changes (my bike has 8 gears in total).

I'd like to see a Woosh vid of someone riding the 2 same bikes mentioned above (mid vs hub), and see which performs best up hills with same 250W power and battery?

I doubt I'd be able to do the same exact hill same start with a rear hub motor using the same battery and a 15A controller. And certainly not while dragging a 90kg bike trailer, which is no problem for my 250W mid-drive conversion.

 

[guerney]

I agree with that. Especially important is the ability to start on a steep hill. See Chris Juden's thread on Cycle UK forum. https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=157613

After removing my throttle - when stopped on a high gear, I tried starting on hills using walk assist while staying on the bike, but unfortunately there's a pause before walk assist starts, and there's a rather too long motor cutoff period after you release the walk assist button, during which time pedal assist won't start... and if you haven't changed down gears by then (unlikely, 6km/h and slowing uphill), you're stuck trying to pedal without assistance on too high a gear, or on a low gear you can't move. Come on the legal throttle law change!

 

[portals]

No need to look since bicycle based 1000 watt machines are already permitted. They are limited to the identical 15.5 mph and are L1e-A mopeds, informally known as Low Powered Mopeds. A minimum group Q driving licence and third party insurance are necessary, but they are necessary for any disabled person using a motor vehicle, so there couldn't be an exemption.

Interesting, is having a blue badge a requirement to ride these bikes, cannot find any decent info.

Anyway, not having a blue badge, if a 500W kit became available that would get up hills with stop/start then probably I'd get one and sell current kit.

Until then I don't really think a a lot of them are fit for purpose if they cannot reliably get a hill with stop/start if it's a busy hill with traffic and lights. Nobody would buy a car that cannot get up steep hills so why should I have to put up with it on an ebike?

 

[saneagle]

I agree with that. Especially important is the ability to start on a steep hill. See Chris Juden's thread on Cycle UK forum. https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=157613

All you need is 48v. Most 250w hub-motors can easily manage around 18A at 48v, which is more than enough to deal with steep hills.

 

[flecc]

Interesting, is having a blue badge a requirement to ride these bikes, cannot find any decent info.

No blue badge needed, L1 is a normal EU motor vehicle class, specified in the Two and Three Wheeled Motor Vehicle Type Approval Regulation 168/2013 . That also contains the exemption for EPACs from being considered motor vehicles. This EU regulation is wholly incorporated into UK law.

Since it is bedtime reading for a few years, here's the extracts you need.

The EAPC exemption and walk alongside related exemptions:

Scope

2. This Regulation does not apply to the following vehicles:

(a)	vehicles with a maximum design speed not exceeding 6 km/h;

(c)	vehicles exclusively intended for pedestrian control;

(h)

pedal cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of less than or equal to 250 W, where the output of the motor is cut off when the cyclist stops pedalling and is otherwise progressively reduced and finally cut off before the vehicle speed reaches 25 km/h;

The motor vehicle categories:

Article 4

1. L-category vehicles comprise powered two-, three- and four-wheel vehicles as categorised in this Article and Annex I, including powered cycles, two- and three-wheel mopeds, two- and three-wheel motorcycles, motorcycles with side-cars, light and heavy on-road quads, and light and heavy quadri-mobiles.

2. For the purposes of this Regulation, the following vehicle categories and subcategories shall apply, as described in Annex I:

(a)	category L1e vehicle (light two-wheel powered vehicle), sub-categorised into: (i) L1e-A vehicle (powered cycle); (ii) L1e-B vehicle (two-wheel moped);

L1e-A is the one I mentioned, 1000 watts limited to 15.5 mph

L1e-B includes the S class speed pedelecs.
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