Some issues with my electric bike....

[Synthman]

7 months ago I aquired a Ninja Electric Bike/scooter with 36 volt Lithium battery. It is the first bike I've owned from new.

The first thing is there was no manual supplied with the bike. I don't know if this is a common thing as I suspect the bike is made in China. The first problem is the range stated was 25-29 miles, and I couldn't get more than 15 miles, I will get to the point about the batterey later.

The chain would also keep sliding off, I took it to a shop and they adjusted the back wheel 3 times but the problem still happens sometimes. I thought the chain needed links taking out but they didn't. The rear box supplied on the bike would rattle like hell, and one day, just as I thought, I hit a small pothole and it came off completely. There was nothing in it and nobody following me, so it could have been worse. The box was just bolted down to the bike, and the screw holes in the base of the topbox fractured. I reckon if they used washers between the screw head and the box it wouldn't have happened. However, I can now carry larger items on my bike without the box.

I'm not sure about the overall quality of it. The bike was relatively cheap, at just under £900. One of the panels hasn't slotted in well to where it is supposed to connect to the footrest. I also found a loose screw underneath. But generally it seems to be ok.

As for the battery, it can get the bike up steep hills well, with a bit of pedalling I'm surprised at some of the uphill speeds I can achieve. The range is much less than expected, as I mostly ride on the flat and am a light person. After about 3 months I was riding along and the power kept cutting. I tried to charge it but it wouldn't charge. As the tamper seal on the battery was already broken when I took delivery, I opened it and found a loose connection, which I rectified. Unfortunately this became a recurring issue, and I eventually realised that the battery packs inside had become unstuck and were wobbling around. They are stuck in on one side with some sort of double-sided adhesive tape. Since I had a roll of the exact same tape lying around, I decided to remove the old tape and put my own in. I also put insulation tape around the offending connector (interestingly, some connectors were already taped, but others weren't) I reassembled the battery and the battery was OK for another month. One day I hit an unexpected pothole on a cycle track and the power went immediately. I continued to pedal to my destination and got a screwdriver and opened the battery. The top battery had unstuck, wobbled around and broke a connection where the wire joins the battery. I wedged it in, got the bike home, and tried to solder it. Although my soldering skills weren't so good, there seemed an issue that the solder wouldn't join the battery. SO I blu-tacked the battery to the wire, and also used blu-tack to hold the batteries in, this seemed to work much better, although the top battery would still wobble sometimes. I got a friend to try and solder it again but even he couldn't.

Recently, another wire came undone, because I opened and closed the case so much the wire that joins to the external fuse disconnected. I panicked, as the bike is my only transport, and decided that because there was another car type fuse in the battery, to disconnect the other wire from the outside fuse, and join them together. I've had no more issues.

I've taken the bike to a local electric bike dealer, they say it was illegal for the bike to supplied without a manual, and that they could attempt to fix the battery for me, at £45 per hour. They also said they wouldn't sell those sorts of bikes because the quality was too low, but that my bike does look good. Indeed, I think it does and it attracts a lot of attention. The speed and power is also impressive, it can take a passenger (not sure if that is illegal, however the police didn't stop me when I had a passenger, but they did check to see if it was electric, as one of us didn't have a helmet, then they left us alone. Also one copper wanted to have a go on it one night so I let him! If normal bicycles can have a passenger or a kid on the back, then I see no issue with mine!)

If I can solve the issue with the chain, and the battery then I would like to carry on using it. If not, then I would rather have a Vespa.

P.S. I did a search on this forum as I waited so many days for my account to be activated, and discovered the battery is a Phylion Hi-energy lithium battery, XH370-10J DC37.0V S/N:JGJHAE100156 which means it was just about 2.5 years old when I bought the bike. I think it would have lost a bit of capacity in that time, and to be honest, many other things, and the tamper seal was already broken. This may account for the range and problems. It has done 91 charges so far, and I think it has a lot of life left in it. It looks completely different to the other batteries with the same model number that go on other bikes, it is a lot wider, and doesn't have a key or meter, as my scooter has them instead. Cannot find a suitable replacement, and the price is shocking in comparison to what I paid for the bike.

The company that sold it have been unhelpful and don't respond at all. I phoned them for a manual and they said they would email it and it never came. I emailed them with no reply, I did write a letter and eventually got an unsatisfactory email and there has been no correspondence since. Unfortunately they took so long to initially respond that the 6 month warranty expired by then. However, they said they'd look at it free of charge if I get the bike to them, which is impossible as I have no transport and the bike can't go that distance!

 

[eddieo]

Try trading standards for help and consumer direct as well..........

 

[alex_h]

TBH The I heard that Phylion battery is the second worst after Zhejang Zhenlong which is the worst of all. Phyllin was the battery for Ezee bike I heard in the past and those batterries brought loads of **** problems for Ezee brand.

 

[onmebike]

TBH The I heard that Phylion battery is the second worst after Zhejang Zhenlong which is the worst of all. Phyllin was the battery for Ezee bike I heard in the past and those batterries brought loads of **** problems for Ezee brand.

Cyclamatics use Zhejang batteries, I wasn't aware of any major problems with them. All make's appear to have a percentage of failure's.
Irrespective of how much use the bike has had at 2.5yrs+ the battery has seen better day's.

 

[flecc]

Current Phylion batteries are fine, but that 2.5 year old one will be completely dud now. Lithium batteries age whether used or not, and that 2007 series were very poor to start with. I've had three of them and none got near to 18 months, let alone the 30 months of yours.

Your supplier should give you a new fresh battery and if they refuse, use the small claims court as advised above.
.

 

[Blew it]

TBH The I heard that Phylion battery is the second worst after Zhejang Zhenlong which is the worst of all. Phyllin was the battery for Ezee bike I heard in the past and those batterries brought loads of **** problems for Ezee brand.

Not entirely true. The early Phylion batteries did suffer problems, as did many other first generation Lithium batteries.

In the case of Ezee, this was compounded by the whopping great 20 amp controller fitted to the Torq one. This issue was quickly resolved by Phylion, examples from late 2007 onwards were far better. In fact, they were damn good batteries.

I have a 28 month old Synergie Mistral which still returns 20 -25 miles per charge on it's original Phylion battery. Likewise, a 27 month old Alien Lynx folder is still good for 12 -15 miles on it's original Phylion 24 volt 'handbag' battery.

 

[onmebike]

Current Phylion batteries are fine, but that 2.5 year old one will be completely dud now. Lithium batteries age whether used or not, and that 2007 series were very poor to start with. I've had three of them and none got near to 18 months, let alone the 30 months of yours.

Your supplier should give you a new fresh battery and if they refuse, use the small claims court as advised above.
.

I'd be a little suspicious of a new bike with a 2.5yr old battery. I agree the supplier should replace the battery.

 

[Synthman]

Thanks for the replies. I also was thinking of contacting trading standards. I'll just send my mum to the bike dealer, trust me she will blast all their heads off with words and come back with a new battery!

But seriously, with a battery that old I never stood a chance did I? I did take it out last night and it drove ok, but it was a short distance. I gave a negative review to my dealer and they never published it, but that is what caused them to reply to my correspondence. I either try them on two landline numbers and one mobile number, or take a coach trip to their shop and confront them in person. Emailing or writing is not an option. I actually want to see my solicitor next week about this.

 

[eddieo]

I actually want to see my solicitor next week about this.

No need, it will cost you plenty if they get involved

Your consumer rights are the first call local CAB and "consumer direct" I find are better. You can download the template letter, then fill in your details. giving them say 14 days to sort this out

Consumer Direct

if this fails go for the nuclear option? The Mum

 

[Synthman]

Cheers for that link. I will print a couple of templates off and post them to my supplier tomorrow. I've got a bad feeling that there won't be a resolution to this problem. Really looks bad for them if they sold a bike with a 2.5 year old battery that has been the cause of much problems.

I also want to modify the bike to make the horn louder and the indicator bleep significantly quieter if possible. And how about a trailer? What sort of trailer would attach to the bike?

 

[morphix]

Hi Synthman,

I've been reading your thread with interest and sorry to hear about your woes with your smart looking Ninja scooter (I actually wanted one when I saw your photo you posted of one similar!)..

Regarding the situation with your dodgy dealer.. he sounds like a bit of a rogue trader.. It's annoying to buy from someone like this with no scruples. I've had my fair share of dealings with traders like this in the past and have successfully sued a number of companies, including BT!

If confronting the trader doesn't get any satisfactory outcome or isn't viable, my advice to you is get your solicitor to write a strong worded letter threatening legal action in the County Court (Small Claims Court) unless they supply replacement parts or a partial refund to the value within 14 days..they will normally only make a nominal charge to write such a letter (£10 ish) but some will do it free of charge if you're out of work. That often will be enough to scare the trader into action.

If that doesn't work, my advice is file a claim online at your local County Court on the grounds that the bike was sold "unfit for purpose" and for "breach of contract", as the trader didn't honour the guarantee on it and replace the parts.

You have an open and shut case there and the judge will issue a county court judgement on the trader unless they reply within 28 days. It doesn't matter that the bike is now out of warranty, if the problems started while it was within warranty. You will need copies of your receipt, e-mails, letters, phone bill, and maybe a letter from the bike shop confirming the problems would be a good idea too.

Don't be put off going down the County Court route, it's a simple procedure and you don't even have to attend court (you can also claim any charges from your solicitor and other reasonable expenses). I wouldn't rely on Trading Standard's in my experience they're a complete waste of time at dealing with rogue traders and assisting with complaints..just report it to them so they're aware of the trader, but I wouldn't bank on them doing anything to help you.

Hope that helps,

Paul

P.S. On a side issue, I think it's illegal for traders to put a 6 month warranty on electrical items which are brand new (excluding batteries of course). As far as I'm aware all electrical goods which are factory new, have to be guaranteed to work for at least a year, and fit for purpose.

 

[flecc]

P.S. On a side issue, I think it's illegal for traders to put a 6 month warranty on electrical items which are brand new (excluding batteries of course). As far as I'm aware all electrical goods which are factory new, have to be guaranteed to work for at least a year, and fit for purpose.

Contrary to popular belief there is no such thing as warranty law, a retailer does not have to give any warranty with anything sold.

Protection exists under the Sale of Goods act which provides that items must be suitable for their declared purpose.

Neither is there a six year protection under EU law, another popular misconception. The reasonable life of any item is decided by courts using the available evidence and precedents. Protection can therefore exist beyond six years for some items but be very short for others, shortest of all for consumables.
.

 

[Synthman]

Hi Synthman,

I've been reading your thread with interest and sorry to hear about your woes with your smart looking Ninja scooter (I actually wanted one when I saw your photo you posted of one similar!)..

Regarding the situation with your dodgy dealer.. he sounds like a bit of a rogue trader.. It's annoying to buy from someone like this with no scruples. I've had my fair share of dealings with traders like this in the past and have successfully sued a number of companies, including BT!

If confronting the trader doesn't get any satisfactory outcome or isn't viable, my advice to you is get your solicitor to write a strong worded letter threatening legal action in the County Court (Small Claims Court) unless they supply replacement parts or a partial refund to the value within 14 days..they will normally only make a nominal charge to write such a letter (£10 ish) but some will do it free of charge if you're out of work. That often will be enough to scare the trader into action.

If that doesn't work, my advice is file a claim online at your local County Court on the grounds that the bike was sold "unfit for purpose" and for "breach of contract", as the trader didn't honour the guarantee on it and replace the parts.

You have an open and shut case there and the judge will issue a county court judgement on the trader unless they reply within 28 days. It doesn't matter that the bike is now out of warranty, if the problems started while it was within warranty. You will need copies of your receipt, e-mails, letters, phone bill, and maybe a letter from the bike shop confirming the problems would be a good idea too.

Don't be put off going down the County Court route, it's a simple procedure and you don't even have to attend court (you can also claim any charges from your solicitor and other reasonable expenses). I wouldn't rely on Trading Standard's in my experience they're a complete waste of time at dealing with rogue traders and assisting with complaints..just report it to them so they're aware of the trader, but I wouldn't bank on them doing anything to help you.

Hope that helps,

Paul

P.S. On a side issue, I think it's illegal for traders to put a 6 month warranty on electrical items which are brand new (excluding batteries of course). As far as I'm aware all electrical goods which are factory new, have to be guaranteed to work for at least a year, and fit for purpose.

Since most of the problem has been the battery, I wonder if I would have been better off getting the SLA battery version, which was £200 cheaper? Apart from the problem with the chain coming off, the bike itself has been better than I expected. Since I taped the batteries with duct tape, the power has never cut out again. However the battery is over 3 years old and giving low range. The company trades under at least 3 different names. If a more reputable retailer sold a similar bike then I would have gone to them instead. I haven't resolved the problem with them yet.

I might be interested in buying a SLA battery and charger, but I haven't seen them anywhere for this sort of bike, in fact not even the lithium ones. I could resort to putting one together myself, although I need to find a case. I will take pictures of the battery and its internals in a week to see if any of you could advise me further. The batteries I thought of using are 3 of UD03D at Maplin but I don't know if they are the deep discharge or not!

I've seen a video on Youtube of a Zipee Bike similar to mine, with a very similar battery. It goes in the same way, and the connector is on the same side as mine. I emailed them to ask about the dimensions and whether they would be willing to sell them, but got no reply. I now heard a few rumours that Zipee have gone out of business.

 

[morphix]

Contrary to popular belief there is no such thing as warranty law, a retailer does not have to give any warranty with anything sold.

Protection exists under the Sale of Goods act which provides that items must be suitable for their declared purpose.

Neither is there a six year protection under EU law, another popular misconception. The reasonable life of any item is decided by courts using the available evidence and precedents. Protection can therefore exist beyond six years for some items but be very short for others, shortest of all for consumables.
.

Thanks for clarifying, the Sale of Goods Act does indeed allow consumers to pursue claims against traders who sell goods that are not "fit for purpose" or that don't provide a reasonable "working life". 12 months must surely be the minimum working life of an electrical item is the point I was making. In many cases claims can be successfully brought up to 6 years outside of a warranty in the UK on certain goods.

 

[morphix]

Since most of the problem has been the battery, I wonder if I would have been better off getting the SLA battery version, which was £200 cheaper? Apart from the problem with the chain coming off, the bike itself has been better than I expected. Since I taped the batteries with duct tape, the power has never cut out again. However the battery is over 3 years old and giving low range. The company trades under at least 3 different names. If a more reputable retailer sold a similar bike then I would have gone to them instead. I haven't resolved the problem with them yet.

I might be interested in buying a SLA battery and charger, but I haven't seen them anywhere for this sort of bike, in fact not even the lithium ones. I could resort to putting one together myself, although I need to find a case. I will take pictures of the battery and its internals in a week to see if any of you could advise me further. The batteries I thought of using are 3 of UD03D at Maplin but I don't know if they are the deep discharge or not!

I've seen a video on Youtube of a Zipee Bike similar to mine, with a very similar battery. It goes in the same way, and the connector is on the same side as mine. I emailed them to ask about the dimensions and whether they would be willing to sell them, but got no reply. I now heard a few rumours that Zipee have gone out of business.

Hi Synthman, the battery would be considered a consumable item and not treated as part of the bike so the life expectancy on this is much shorter (typically the manufacturers minimum quoted charge cycles I would think). It depends how you treat the battery and how much use it gets though of course. Those SLA batteries are way cheaper compared to Lithium ones so you should be able to get a replacement easily. I've seen some Yuasa branded SLA's on eBay which look to be a decent make, but you would want to get one from a reliable supplier to avoid any problems again. I like the look of your bike and wanted to get a pedal scooter myself, I had seen a trader called "Ever Eco" advertising on eBay, they look good bikes but I'm just worried about the hassle from police.

 

[allen-uk]

I know it's the least of your problems, Synthman, but personally I wouldn't bother about making the horn louder!

1) It'll never be loud enough to alert drivers to your presence, unless you stick a 12" loudspeaker on your head.

2) It might be loud enough to frighten pedestrians, or other cyclists.

Wisper supply a little bell with their bikes, a bit like a Buddhist meditation bell, and if I'm coming within 50 yards of a pedestrian round a park track, I might give them a respectful 'Ding, ding'. I've got a feeling that an HGV-type klaxon might lose me more friends...

Allen.

 

[Synthman]

Hi Synthman, the battery would be considered a consumable item and not treated as part of the bike so the life expectancy on this is much shorter (typically the manufacturers minimum quoted charge cycles I would think). It depends how you treat the battery and how much use it gets though of course. Those SLA batteries are way cheaper compared to Lithium ones so you should be able to get a replacement easily. I've seen some Yuasa branded SLA's on eBay which look to be a decent make, but you would want to get one from a reliable supplier to avoid any problems again. I like the look of your bike and wanted to get a pedal scooter myself, I had seen a trader called "Ever Eco" advertising on eBay, they look good bikes but I'm just worried about the hassle from police.

Bike gets almost daily use. If the battery was less than 6 months old then I would have got better range, and the packs probably wouldn't have come unstuck so early. I should have been home when my bike got delivered, because the broken tamper seal was the first thing I noticed wrong when I got it. Wait until I get hold of a digicam when my dad gets back from holiday, and I will take a picture of the internals.

Also, as for those Ever Eco bikes, they are almost identical to mine. I pass police each time I ride it, and I've only been pulled twice, once for allegedly passing a red light, and another because my passenger had no helmet. Of course when they realised I had an ebike they left me alone. I wouldn't worry about the police at all! And at least the Eco has a rating plate on the back. Mine has space for a plate under the rear lights, could I have one made with the manufacturers details and the spec they gave?

I know it's the least of your problems, Synthman, but personally I wouldn't bother about making the horn louder!

1) It'll never be loud enough to alert drivers to your presence, unless you stick a 12" loudspeaker on your head.

2) It might be loud enough to frighten pedestrians, or other cyclists.

Wisper supply a little bell with their bikes, a bit like a Buddhist meditation bell, and if I'm coming within 50 yards of a pedestrian round a park track, I might give them a respectful 'Ding, ding'. I've got a feeling that an HGV-type klaxon might lose me more friends...

Allen.

It is loud enough. for people not in vehicles. There were two people jogging in the cycle lane yesterday, and although I went round them, I sounded the horn and the guy looked back straight away. I considered an air horn because I like trains, but its ok. The indicator bleeper is a lot louder, and that is my problem. It puts me off indicating for too long. Wish I could disable that!

Also, as to my question earlier, how would I connect a trailer? Make some contraption where the topbox was to connect it to?

Cheers