Bristol Show

[Deleted member 4366]

It's on Sunday. I'll be going. Who else is?

I'll have one of my bikes with 2-speed Xiongda motor there if anybody wants to try it.

I've just been told that Oxygen will have their new MTB there. It's an absolute stormer. Don't miss a chance to try it. I reckon that it'll be very popular in the medium price range. Somebody mentioned an unfit rider doing 27mph with the speed restriction removed.

 

[Jonah]

I'll be there.

 

[D8ve]

See you there

 

[awol]

Can't make it but hope to see lots of photo's next week.

 

[John F]

Can't make it but hope to see lots of photo's next week.

Is there any sensible ebike promotion going on here! I realise there are a lot of stalls, but the event is just about which is the most powerful?

Apologies if I've got the wrong message

 

[Deleted member 4366]

If you have power, you can always turn it down. If you don't have power, you can't turn it up when you need it. Also, if you have a large powerful motor, it tends to last a lot longer than one that's struggling to keep up.

If you ask Woosh and Kudos about which of their bikes they sell the most of, I'm pretty sure that they'll say, the Tornado and the Big Bear. Why? Because that's what most people want.

Many of the UK brands now have powerful motors in their model range. The Oxygen has always been a very nice bike, but it lacked power for the heavy and weak people, which is why I never recommended it. These powerful motors mean that you don't have to have all the disadvantages of a crank-drive. As I've said before. Crank-drives is a fashion that will soon pass. You can expect to see a lot more very good hub-motored bikes soon.

I saw the new bike in China. It looked very interesting and desirable. It's more than just a powerful motor, as we'll hopefully see on Sunday. I can't wait to try it. I'm already checking my savings to see if I can afford one.

 

[Artstu]

As I've said before. Crank-drives is a fashion that will soon pass.

I for one hope you're wrong on that one. Granted it does appear that most e-bike buyers want powerful motors that will push them up the hills. However some of us want a less powerful crank-drive that rides almost exactly like a normal bike but requires a little less effort. My bike is close to perfection for me.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I know there's other people like you, but I'd say that you're in the minority. There are hub-motors too that can do what you want. Look at the Bionx and Falco motors. The control systems are becoming more sophisticated and adaptable. As long as a hub-motor has the same maximum torque as yours in first gear, the rest can be exactly the same. It's only a matter for the control system. If you have a high powered motor, you don't have to use all the power, the control system can give as much or as little as it or you wants.

 

[tillson]

I for one hope you're wrong on that one. Granted it does appear that most e-bike buyers want powerful motors that will push them up the hills. However some of us want a less powerful crank-drive that rides almost exactly like a normal bike but requires a little less effort. My bike is close to perfection for me.

D8veh appears view himself as some sort of self appointed industry insider who can predict how the ebike market will develop. I don't know what is going to happen in the coming years and neither does he.

I am biased towards crank driven bikes having owned and used one most days for the past six years. The motor lasted for 17500 miles and I replaced the chain twice, rear sprocket twice, chain wheel and motor sprocket once. Before the motor failed, the bike never let me down once and it was used in atrocious weather. The original battery is still in use.

Crank driven bikes ride very nicely and they feel very natural in the way that the power is delivered. Based on my extensive experience of the Panasonic crank drive, I can see few disadvantages and hope they have a good future.

I have ridden a bike fitted with an ezee kit and it was good. Pulled well up hill and was smooth, but from my brief experience I thought it lacked the refinement of a good quality crank drive.

From what i read, d8veh is no expert. At best he is competent user of existing products and my advice would be, ignore his advice and do your own research.

 

[rippedupno1]

@ d8veh, do you really think that crank drives will soon be a thing of the past? It has been 18 months since i tested several hub drive bikes (thank you on- bike) and found them excellent except for me it didn't feel as close to a normal bike whereas the crank drive did . Has technology moved on in this time so that hub drives give a more natural non assisted bike feel? Unfortunately I cannot make the show this weekend but would be interested to hear your views on the above "feel" question.
Ps, the Mosso is proving to be an excellent buy in so much that for me it has cured the one downside of the crank drive, having a thumb throttle so i can stop peddling when the knee pain gets too much.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I wouldn't say it if I didn't believe it. A few years ago, I predicted that the 26v Panasonic system would be wiped out by the Bosch. Those that commented at the time said I was wrong. There's a niche market for everything, but I'm talking about mainstream. Some people can see into the future and some can only look backwards. We'll see if I'm right on this one.

 

[martin@onbike]

[QUOTEA few years ago, I predicted that the 26v Panasonic system would be wiped out by the Bosch. Those that commented at the time said I was wrong.][/QUOTE]

Actually the 26v Panasonic was wiped out by the 36v Panasonic, and then the Bosch took over.....
I'd say a larger percentage of E- bikes sold are Crank drive than Hub driven- at a balance of around 60% to 40% currently.
I'm sure this will fluctuate and probably settle on a 50/50 as Hub bikes improve aesthetically.
Just my opinion-no hard facts there

 

[Deleted member 4366]

If I get it wrong, everybody would say, "Ya boo sucks to you". If you get it wrong, it could cost a lot.

The Bosch motor was out long before the 36v Panosonic. What I said at the time was that if Panasonic didn't bring out a 36v motor soon, they'd be dead in the water. It looks like they were too late to me.

 

[martin@onbike]

Think you're right about the Panasonic Cranks...which is a shame as their new version (v4?) without the motor sprocket is a nice piece of kit, as were it's predecessors.
Luckily, we'll always sell the latest motor/battery systems at OnBike and are not at all biased towards one drive system or brand providing we find it to be reliable, and a good performer- so we should be ok.
Looking forward to more like the Panasonic Rear Hubs,Shimano and Yamaha Crank systems.
It would be great to see more Chinese plug and play stuff with the same reliability as the European brands too. I was impressed with "Rippedup's" Mosso bike when I had a go- it seemed very good value for money and I hope it proves to have the reliability.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The Chinese are improving rapidly. I spent a lot of tyme talking to the Wuxing guy about how they'd introduced the Toyota Production System (TPS) into their factory. Their latest products for Yamaha no longer looked like toys. The word will soon get round, and it'll spread to motor manufacturers and electronics if it hasn't already. You only have to look back at motors. Think of the defect rate on Bafang motors 4 years ago. What is it now? I can't really remember anybody that had a broken motor that was run within its rating.

 

[denwyn]

Hmmm, this chat on crank v hub drives is making me think again now, i had intended going to Bristol tomorrow with the intention of buying or at least placing an order for a new bike, was inclined to a Kalkhoff, even though they seem a bit expensive, i may just wait now to see how things pan out in the next year. I did think of converting a bike with motor, bought an almost new Marin San Raphel DS3, but on looking at the work involved i was put off doing it, so i sold the bike, well i say sold it, the buyer now wants to pay over a few months, i wont do that so i have ended up with it again. I like the bike so will just keep it for now and use it as it is. Having second thoughts on making the trip to Bristol now

 

[trex]

denwyn, it's not difficult to convert a bike like the Marin DS2. If you can change a tyre, you can probably do it.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Regretfully,Kudos will not be at Bristol this year,the event is good fun but we just don't have the personnel to attend.
My money would be on the KTM e-Panasonic hub drive to be fastest legal e-bike up the hill.
KudosDave

 

[fishingpaul]

D8veh appears view himself as some sort of self appointed industry insider who can predict how the ebike market will develop. I don't know what is going to happen in the coming years and neither does he.

I am biased towards crank driven bikes having owned and used one most days for the past six years. The motor lasted for 17500 miles and I replaced the chain twice, rear sprocket twice, chain wheel and motor sprocket once. Before the motor failed, the bike never let me down once and it was used in atrocious weather. The original battery is still in use.

Crank driven bikes ride very nicely and they feel very natural in the way that the power is delivered. Based on my extensive experience of the Panasonic crank drive, I can see few disadvantages and hope they have a good future.

I have ridden a bike fitted with an ezee kit and it was good. Pulled well up hill and was smooth, but from my brief experience I thought it lacked the refinement of a good quality crank drive.

From what i read, d8veh is no expert. At best he is competent user of existing products and my advice would be, ignore his advice and do your own research.

D8veh is one of the most knowledegable posters on here,when he comments on something it is from personal experience,he is an expert having extensive knowledge of all electric bikes,maybe his love of faster than strictly legal bikes upsets your own views,but his knowledge of electric bikes is second to none.

 

[denwyn]

Decesion take to give Bristol a miss, and stick with my Marin as it is for now, going to have a real good look for good quality conversion kit,what I dont want to end up with is some hashed up mess of cables and bits, one of the biggest thing that puts me off is all the ones I have seen converted have front wheel motors, from my experience of this with a Kudos City last year I didnt like it at all, and was glad to see the bike go.