Advice please.... Pro Rider E-Wayfarer controller.
- Thread starter Lazeyboy
- Start date
Not sure if any of this will help, but really really appreciate you taking a look for us.
We’ve tried to adjust some of the settings. Here’s what happened
C5 setting
0-2 the noise starts after a while, like on the video.
3-5 the noise starts immediately the wheel turns.
6-10 is similar to 0-5, we get a little time before the noise starts.
Power settings using the thumb control.
Settings 1-5 on that control using the throttle, the noise came after a while, we noticed the Watts on the lcd screen got to between 9 and 11 When the noise starts.
Settings 1-5 using crank, the noise came on all settings.
We haven’t tried the P1 setting adjustment as we don’t have a clue what they are and there were 1-255 in the choices.
thanks Neal, we’re really grateful.
We’ve tried to adjust some of the settings. Here’s what happened
C5 setting
0-2 the noise starts after a while, like on the video.
3-5 the noise starts immediately the wheel turns.
6-10 is similar to 0-5, we get a little time before the noise starts.
Power settings using the thumb control.
Settings 1-5 on that control using the throttle, the noise came after a while, we noticed the Watts on the lcd screen got to between 9 and 11 When the noise starts.
Settings 1-5 using crank, the noise came on all settings.
We haven’t tried the P1 setting adjustment as we don’t have a clue what they are and there were 1-255 in the choices.
thanks Neal, we’re really grateful.
P1 at 87 is probably ok, the hub looks just like any other hub whether Mxus, Bafang etc,etc.
What is worrying is the wattage when the noise starts that indicates no power at that low level.
For now disconnect the throttle and lets see if PAS can be got to work first.
Under PAS use when turning the cranks what is the noise, does it growl ?
What is worrying is the wattage when the noise starts that indicates no power at that low level.
For now disconnect the throttle and lets see if PAS can be got to work first.
Under PAS use when turning the cranks what is the noise, does it growl ?
Last edited:
Ive uploaded pics&vids to the cloud for you to see.
1 is a photo of settings
2 is running with throttle with noise
3 Is throttle disconnected. Only had a small amount of noise, only just noticeable but still there.
eBike – Google Drive
drive.google.com
Unless you wish to blow the controller I would disconnect the throttle until PAS is sorted.
Have you connected the hall wires in the white block exactly colour for colour ?
Check the 9 pin motor connector is pushed together fully.
Have you connected the hall wires in the white block exactly colour for colour ?
Check the 9 pin motor connector is pushed together fully.
Ok, throttle disconnected, hall wire colours all the same when connected, 9 pin motor connector has arrows on each pointing towards each other.
In vid 3 under PAS it might be the phase out of sync.
Try changing C2 setting from value 0 to 1 and try it only in PAS one level, if ii is still noisy try all of the other 6.
If that fails reset It to 0 and then there are 36 wire permutation to try out to see if one or two permutation's work better.
Try changing C2 setting from value 0 to 1 and try it only in PAS one level, if ii is still noisy try all of the other 6.
If that fails reset It to 0 and then there are 36 wire permutation to try out to see if one or two permutation's work better.
With C2 changed to 1 And on pas 1 it is difficult to get the motor to engaged. Working my way though it does engage but immediately noisy. In fact it seems as loud as it was with the throttle connected.
Ok , reset C2 back to 0.
With sensored hubs there are 36 combos of phase/hall sequences you can use to determine correct motor sync , whether that is your issue I can't really say but it might be. Your have to play around with connecting disconnecting the phase and hall connections/wiring as per the chart I will post below., as before only check for motor running using PAS 1 or 2. The noise sounds electrical and might only be the halls in the wrong order but you will have go through all 36 sequences to find out. Number the sequences 1 - 36 on a sheet of paper then write down how the motor works, often only 2 or 3 might will work correctly. Make a note of which ones and then settle for the one that feels best. One or two will spin the wheel AC/W and some won't do anything.
The fact you don't have an issue with the old controller I can only think it is now the new controller out of sync. No need to rush the testing but once under way all should take about an hour.
With sensored hubs there are 36 combos of phase/hall sequences you can use to determine correct motor sync , whether that is your issue I can't really say but it might be. Your have to play around with connecting disconnecting the phase and hall connections/wiring as per the chart I will post below., as before only check for motor running using PAS 1 or 2. The noise sounds electrical and might only be the halls in the wrong order but you will have go through all 36 sequences to find out. Number the sequences 1 - 36 on a sheet of paper then write down how the motor works, often only 2 or 3 might will work correctly. Make a note of which ones and then settle for the one that feels best. One or two will spin the wheel AC/W and some won't do anything.
The fact you don't have an issue with the old controller I can only think it is now the new controller out of sync. No need to rush the testing but once under way all should take about an hour.
Last edited:
Hi again, we’ve managed to go through the different wiring configurations and found some that are definitely quieter. We’ve uploaded some videos showing some typical thing’s.
Most had a common low quiet to louder rumble, a few that seemed quieter with no squealing but sounded louder in running than normal, and a couple that squealed. A couple that were quieter also seemed to go through the noise and then run even quieter. They were all set at pas 1 with the throttle disconnected, and the bike upside down.
We noticed when wired normally that on pas 1 it would go through the squeal and then ran quietly. So we then tried on pas 5 and it did the same.
With the couple that squealed it was drawing around 2 amps, and all the others were around 3.5 amps, including the quieter ones. Not sure if I should have, but at pas 3 even the quieter one was drawing 9.5amps. None had a reverse rotation.
Then we put the old controller back in (correctly wired,) and tried it, and were surprised to find that at pas on 1 it ran at around .900 milliamps, (nowhere near the amps that were being drawn with the new controller) and at pas 3, it was only drawing around 1.5amp, none pulled 3,5amp unless applied the brakes then it drew on average 7amps and with a cutoff of 15amps.
I know the meter that we used is normally inaccurate by a few hundred milliamps but not that far out.
Sorry that we have given you so much to look at, we just hope it makes some kind of sense to you.
Thanks again.
eBike – Google Drive
drive.google.com
Attachments
Vid 05 sounds pretty good and is as quiet as vid 06 original controller, from the chart looks like you have found two or three quieter running combos. You need to try them in real world use on the road now.
Any combos that squeal or rumble disregard them and send to Room 101.
The good ones that work it will be safe now to add the throttle.
All hubs to a degree will make a noise in the region of 50db.
Column 4 /#4 and the last combo looks like the best results, both the phase and sensor sequence the same.
Don't forget that the low current reading is because they current draw is unloaded with a no load speed so expected and the rise in current with the brakes applied is expected when a load is applied.
You have your data now to go by so apply the settings /combos you like and give them a try out on the road, if you feel you have three or four try them all and settle for the one that sounds and performs the best.
Usually the controllers work straight of the bag which is what I find with a LCD3, whether the new LCD8S are more sensitive when coupled to the controller I don't know . It's a good job you went with older Sm connectors rather then Julet WP otherwise you would not have been able to over come the issue.
It's taken a bit of toing and froing but looks like things are nearly done and dusted.
Any combos that squeal or rumble disregard them and send to Room 101.
The good ones that work it will be safe now to add the throttle.
All hubs to a degree will make a noise in the region of 50db.
Column 4 /#4 and the last combo looks like the best results, both the phase and sensor sequence the same.
Don't forget that the low current reading is because they current draw is unloaded with a no load speed so expected and the rise in current with the brakes applied is expected when a load is applied.
You have your data now to go by so apply the settings /combos you like and give them a try out on the road, if you feel you have three or four try them all and settle for the one that sounds and performs the best.
Usually the controllers work straight of the bag which is what I find with a LCD3, whether the new LCD8S are more sensitive when coupled to the controller I don't know . It's a good job you went with older Sm connectors rather then Julet WP otherwise you would not have been able to over come the issue.
It's taken a bit of toing and froing but looks like things are nearly done and dusted.
Last edited:
Thanks so very much, that sounds great, I will find a quiet car park somewhere (we have a few at the moment,) and find a way that we can safely try a few of them.
Just one thing though before I try, is the fact that all of the quieter ones go over 10amps at pas 3 even though there is no load ok? What is likely to happen to the Amps with the battery or motor as it is only normally 7amps X 36volts = 252watts.(All things being perfect I know. )
Do I trust the read out on the display wattage output?
Hope you don’t mind me asking?
Last edited:
The new controllers are 11a rated with a max 22a draw, your old ones were 7a with a 15a max draw the max current draw is available via throttle or PAS 5 use.
The PAS 3 10a draw is 50% of the available current which is a bit more then I would expect for PAS 3 but not you should see it no load, try it loaded and see if it draws the same watts.
The approx. current draw in each PAS level is as follows PAS 1 is 13%, PAS 2 20%, PAS 3 33%, PAS 4 50% & PAS 5 100% with my KT lcd3, whether or not these % have changed now I don't know. You will have to take pen and paper to jot down the watts each PAS level indicates, wattage at any PAS level will vary depending on the battery SOC. You will see more with a fully charged battery then one at 36v.
The PAS 3 10a draw is 50% of the available current which is a bit more then I would expect for PAS 3 but not you should see it no load, try it loaded and see if it draws the same watts.
The approx. current draw in each PAS level is as follows PAS 1 is 13%, PAS 2 20%, PAS 3 33%, PAS 4 50% & PAS 5 100% with my KT lcd3, whether or not these % have changed now I don't know. You will have to take pen and paper to jot down the watts each PAS level indicates, wattage at any PAS level will vary depending on the battery SOC. You will see more with a fully charged battery then one at 36v.
Last edited:
Okay thanks, if it doesn’t sound dangerous to you then I will give it a go, thanks again for all your help.
We couldn’t get out on the bike today as it was very stormy, so we tried the quieter settings again with the bike upside down, and added in the throttle this time. Some of them ended up in room 101 as you expected, some didn’t even turn the wheel with the throttle even though the motor sounded like it was running. We’ve listed the best results below.
We kept an eye on the watts as you suggested, and noticed that they went well above 250watts, 250 watts was 9MPH, and 17 mph it went over 440 watts. See video “new controller with throttle, no braking”. That is a recording of either of the lower 2 results, I can’t remember which one for definite.
There is also a video of our old controller to show the amps under braking, about 10 seconds into the film.
Column 4 #2 (23) sounds not bad but throttle only takes it up to 10 MPH
Column 6 #4 (33) sounds not bad but throttle only takes it up to 10 MPH
Column 4 #4 (21)very responsive throttle, speed goes well over 17MPH,
The sound isn’t bad, except between 6 and 7 MPH when
It’s a bit rattley. The controller Was very warm and wiring got Warm
Column 6 #6 (31) very similar to columb 4#4 result.
so it looks like we not have a couple of choices unless you know of a way to stop the throttle topping out at 10 MPH.
All had the worrying high amp, none starting under 3 amp, which seems high considering how our old controller worked, even with the different amp age, and under braking.
eBike – Google Drive
drive.google.com
You're wasting your time looking at and playing with current settings and measurements. Your problem is synchronisation between the motor and the controller or uneven pulses reaching the motor. You need to look at any settings that affect synchronisation or any connections or wires that might compromise the pulses reaching the motor. Start by trying a few random P1 settings to see if any make a difference. If they don't have any effect, look at the wires and connectors.
hi Neal,
when we first had the problem with the controller we got in touch with the supplier, today we received this worrying message,
“Hi Dear,
Just see it.
We no see this motor before.
And has sent the video to KT, they said it should the motor not fit the controller.
KT controller can fit AKM motor or bafang motor.
Thanks.“
So it looks like we’ll have to be looking for a new motor, which we had wondered about before we started this.
when we first had the problem with the controller we got in touch with the supplier, today we received this worrying message,
“Hi Dear,
Just see it.
We no see this motor before.
And has sent the video to KT, they said it should the motor not fit the controller.
KT controller can fit AKM motor or bafang motor.
Thanks.“
So it looks like we’ll have to be looking for a new motor, which we had wondered about before we started this.
We couldn’t get out on the bike today as it was very stormy, so we tried the quieter settings again with the bike upside down, and added in the throttle this time. Some of them ended up in room 101 as you expected, some didn’t even turn the wheel with the throttle even though the motor sounded like it was running. We’ve listed the best results below.
We kept an eye on the watts as you suggested, and noticed that they went well above 250watts, 250 watts was 9MPH, and 17 mph it went over 440 watts. See video “new controller with throttle, no braking”. That is a recording of either of the lower 2 results, I can’t remember which one for definite.
There is also a video of our old controller to show the amps under braking, about 10 seconds into the film.
Column 4 #2 (23) sounds not bad but throttle only takes it up to 10 MPH
Column 6 #4 (33) sounds not bad but throttle only takes it up to 10 MPH
Column 4 #4 (21)very responsive throttle, speed goes well over 17MPH,
The sound isn’t bad, except between 6 and 7 MPH when
It’s a bit rattley. The controller Was very warm and wiring got Warm
Column 6 #6 (31) very similar to columb 4#4 result.
so it looks like we not have a couple of choices unless you know of a way to stop the throttle topping out at 10 MPH.
All had the worrying high amp, none starting under 3 amp, which seems high considering how our old controller worked, even with the different amp age, and under braking.
eBike – Google Drive
They're saying that they don't know what it is, so can't say whether the controller is compatible or not for definite. Most motors are compatible.
Some motors have a 60 deg phase angle, in which case you need to set C2=2. Did you try that?
Last edited:
hi,
thanks for joining in and trying to help. We remembered that Neal had said about C2 setting, we did change it tothe other choice on ourdisplay but it didn’t make it sound okay so we put it back to which ever one it was on to start with. We’ve just searched backthrough the chat to make sure that we it was the C2 setting, and noticed that Neal had said to try the other 6 settings. We must have missed that because the controller we have only has 0 or 1. I’ve had a look at the manual for the other controller that Neal had mentioned and that has 7 choices.
So we don’t have a C2=2 setting to choose, I’ve taken a couple of screen shots of the 2 different manuals to see if they manage any sense to you.
