Boeing 787 battery failure

[shemozzle999]

Shows a couple of pictures of the failed battery in this thread:

Possible Solutions for the Battery Problem on the Boeing 787 - Battery University

More details here:

http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/2013/boeing_787/interim_report_B787_3-7-13.pdf

 

[flecc]

At the time I found it almost unbelievable that Boeing had stuck with lithium cobalt, considering how well known that chemistry's potential for fire problems was. Long before the first entry into service of the 787, there were very safe compound-cathode alternatives that were no larger or heavier and also capable of doing the job, as that Battery University article makes clear.

Hopefully a lesson well learnt now.

 

[Scimitar]

Absolutely crazy in my opinion, and a perfect example of internal corporate inertia.

 

[hech]

At the time I found it almost unbelievable that Boeing had stuck with lithium cobalt, considering how well known that chemistry's potential for fire problems was. Long before the first entry into service of the 787, there were very safe compound-cathode alternatives that were no larger or heavier and also capable of doing the job, as that Battery University article makes clear.

Hopefully a lesson well learnt now.

You know flecc, me and the other lipo boys are getting jolly well fed up with your disparaging narrative on ourcell's. Why apart from the singular conflagration of one shed and two ebicycles I myself find them utterly safe in the right hands!

 

[hech]

Absolutely crazy in my opinion, and a perfect example of internal corporate inertia.

And indeed external spiritual momentum!

 

[flecc]

You know flecc, me and the other lipo boys are getting jolly well fed up with your disparaging narrative on ourcell's. Why apart from the singular conflagration of one shed and two ebicycles I myself find them utterly safe in the right hands!

But I didn't mention lipo! This is so often mixed up it's worth repeating what I've regularly posted. Polymer refers to a construction, not a chemistry. The term lipo to describe a battery is meaningless, since a "lipo" can be of any lithium battery chemistry; safe or dangerous; cobalt, manganese, various compound cathode or iron-phosphate.

 

[hech]

Yes flecc of course but the term is generally understood to refer to the high density cells most commonly used in the RC world as you know. I thought they had cobalt cathodes and therefore were more volatile or reactive ?? However I noticed that Hobbyking now sells cells using iron phosphate (Lifepo) with similarly dimensions and extreme discharge rates. I guess I should look it up eh?

 

[flecc]

Yes Hech, I know it's the model world to blame rather than the e-biking world who just seemed to have picked up on that usage. Very confusing though, when I ask someone what type of battery when they have been experiencing problems and they answer lipo!

I think most of the "lipos" in the model world did previously use cobalt cathodes since that was for long the easiest way to get high performance from a small package, but times have changed and other chemistries, including the complex compounds using cobalt more safely, are close enough in performance to take over.

 

[mike killay]

Flecc.
I think it was 2012 or 2011 that the Belgian Post Office had fires with their new electric bikes, was this the cause?

 

[MikeyBikey]

Latest Boeing fire nothing to do with batteries ! phew!

From BBC
"But the AAIB investigators found the fire damage to Ethiopian's aircraft was not near the batteries.

Instead, they have found that the fire was in the upper rear part of the 787 Dreamliner, where the Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) is fitted. ". Phew!
Mikey

 

[billadie]

From BBC
"But the AAIB investigators found the fire damage to Ethiopian's aircraft was not near the batteries.

Instead, they have found that the fire was in the upper rear part of the 787 Dreamliner, where the Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) is fitted. ". Phew!
Mikey

Maybe`Emergency Locator Tranmitter' is this just corporate speak for `signal fire'. Perhaps, in the event of an emergency, or if they just forgot where they parked the plane, a small fire is started in the rear of the fuselage. In which case everything is working as planned.

 

[flecc]

From BBC
"But the AAIB investigators found the fire damage to Ethiopian's aircraft was not near the batteries.

Instead, they have found that the fire was in the upper rear part of the 787 Dreamliner, where the Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) is fitted. "

So that's alright, when the 787 I'm on is plunging out of the sky in flames I'll feel better knowing it wasn't a battery problem!

 

[OldBob1]

The good news is that its not the main batteries again, but the bad news is that its in the Emergency locator device area and its not covered by the fire detection system I believe at the moment? but at least they have taken the in-built ones out of service until futher tests are done and replaced by tempory ones which have proven safe.

Bob.

 

[smudger1956]

I bet a pound to a pinch, there has been much discussion on retro fitting an APU.....just in case..

 

[Scimitar]

From BBC
"But the AAIB investigators found the fire damage to Ethiopian's aircraft was not near the batteries.

Instead, they have found that the fire was in the upper rear part of the 787 Dreamliner, where the Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) is fitted. ". Phew!
Mikey

Oh, that's all right, then.
Nothing more than a normal fire - aboard an aircraft that's about as fire-resistant as a box of matches.