Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

Steve,
There is a lot to admire in the best of British... I shouldn't need to be the one to remind you of that
Other nationalities all have their own quirks and foibles also.
Slavery was not invented by the British, in fact they were instrumental in making it unacceptable.
Colonism was not invented either on your shores , mind you you were the best in the world at it.
Modern concentration camps yes I will conceed , but what was the alternative? The previous model was mass slaughter.

Many of the major civic organizations from light houses rnli, scouts and guides etc which are of world importance were of British origin.

Perhaps you as a nation are just better at hypocrisy?

 

[Steb]

Steve,
There is a lot to admire in the best of British... I shouldn't need to be the one to remind you of that
Other nationalities all have their own quirks and foibles also.
Slavery was not invented by the British, in fact they were instrumental in making it unacceptable.
Colonism was not invented either on your shores , mind you you were the best in the world at it.
Modern concentration camps yes I will conceed , but what was the alternative? The previous model was mass slaughter.

Many of the major civic organizations from light houses rnli, scouts and guides etc which are of world importance were of British origin.

Perhaps you as a nation are just better at hypocrisy?

I'm British, and when it comes to hypocrisy we(ie the British) are positively Olympic. Every nation no doubt have their foibles, but that doesn't change the fact that may, cameron, Blair are very much the norm

 

[oldgroaner]

An old proverb
"The sun never sets of the British Empire.
Because God doesn't trust the British in the Dark"

And one that has a topical ring to it

"Britannia Waives the Rules"

 

[oldgroaner]

The Remainers Guide to making Brexit a huge success
No1 You need one of these

 

[oldgroaner]

Modern concentration camps yes I will conceed , but what was the alternative? The previous model was mass slaughter.

Remember the Potato Famine? mass slaughter by deliberate neglect can be added to that squalid list, and now we Have Jackass Grease Smug praising Food banks.

 

[oldgroaner]

I'm British, and when it comes to hypocrisy we(ie the British) are positively Olympic. Every nation no doubt have their foibles, but that doesn't change the fact that may, cameron, Blair are very much the norm

How Dare you? all three are in the running for the prestigious

"Attilla the Hun Humanitarian award for Diplomacy"

 

[oldtom]

there's jabez balfour, Marconi, profumo, archer, etc etc etc. Blair Cameron and May are very much a continuation of the the norm.

This is very close to being published or perhaps even closer to disappearing!

1837

About 35 years ago, I was liaising closely with some Diplomatic Protection Group officers (as was - since renamed) and a specialist child protection unit. It was widely known back then that Ted Heath was a major child abuser.

Many civilians found the rumours (and there were plenty) about Heath's predilection for little boys impossible to believe but perhaps if this latest report is published, people will wake up to the fact that they have been lied to by politicians and their media friends for decades and not just about paedophilia.

The Jimmy Savile inquiry (Yewtree) became an impossible task for police officers to investigate and as a result, it failed to uncover sufficient evidence to charge the hundreds of names police had been given.

I'm too old now to worry about any possible infringement of the Official Secrets Act but I have to say that it offends me to understand that so many of the population are so damaged by the mindbending literature and propaganda drivel produced by tory politicians and their friends in the aristocracy through their media wing, that they simply cannot believe tories, senior Churchmen, Military High Command, High-ranking police, judiciary and civil servants, royalty and peers of the realm capable of such disgusting, deviant sexual practices.

Tom

 

[Danidl]

Remember the Potato Famine? mass slaughter by deliberate neglect can be added to that squalid list, and now we Have Jackass Grease Smug praising Food banks.

Of course we know about the potato famine, there were other forces at play there. The Irish population grew very substantially in the preceding two generations, primarily as a result of prosperity resulting from the neapolonic wars where Irish corn, horses and timber were a major part of the war effort. Following the 1801 act of union, all the money was starting to be syphoned off to London, and when the inevitable bust came, it did not affect the ruling class .
The potato famine was not so much an action by the British government more a failure to take positive action , having removed local government they could safely ignore Irish concerns. It therefore led to the wars of independence in 1920, when it was believed that the British could not be trusted. Ireland's relationship with the EU is completely different.

 

[oldgroaner]

a failure to take positive action ,

I believe that is exactly what I said!

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Telegraph"
Theresa May's open-hearted generosity laid bare the mean-spirited cynicism of EU ultras"

Somehow "open-hearted generosity and Theresa May don't belong on the same page never mind in the same sentence!

 

[oldgroaner]

And from the Express
"
I SAVED BREXIT’ Boris Johnson says he stopped Remainers but Farage says it’s a TORY PLOT
BORIS JOHNSON last night took credit for Theresa May’s Brexit speech, saying Britain would have ended up in the EU until 2024 if he hadn’t taken on the Remainers in the Cabinet..

Now then children, play nicely.

 

[Woosh]

John Redwood. "we will only know whether the speech was successful when we see and hear considered responses of the EU and its member states".

I don't like the man much but on this occasion, agreed with him.

 

[oldtom]

At first glance, I wondered what Theresa May had to do with some of Arsenal's first-team squad. On reading the material with it, I soon realised that it's connected with May's time as Home Secretary but of course, it's just anti-tory propaganda promulgated by left-wing agitators to discredit this tory government. You know that and I know that........or do we?



Even Orwell couldn't have made this stuff up.

Theresa May, as Home Secretary, and with the assistance of MI5, allowed British jihadists a green light to travel in and out of the UK, actively encouraging them to polish their skills in terrorism in order to bring down Gaddafi and join Al Qaeda. In the aftermath of last week's stunt in London, she has now sworn to 'protect' us from those same terrorists, claiming that MI5 is 'on their trail'.The burning plastic bucket, which might as well have been a big black ball with a fizzing fuse and the word 'Bomb' written on it, was enough to necessitate troops being put onto the streets of London.May has sworn to 'bring the terrorists to justice', but has also outed another enemy responsible for the atrocity. This foe is named by the Daily Mail as 'The Internet Bosses'. If you didn't know that the internet had 'bosses', the Mail helpfully explains exactly who they are: The 'heads of technology giants such as Facebook, Microsoft and Google'. It Was Them Wot Done It.The Mail suggests that terrorists are forced to Google 'how to make a bomb?', in order to carry out their plans.Viscount Rothermere's rag, unfortunately, doesn't explain why the jihadists don't simply call up their handlers at Thames House and ask them.Clearly, another attack on social media is being prepared. May and her cronies now realise that the days of newspaper proprietors swinging an election are over. The reputation of the BBC has been well and truly trashed. Social media is king and the British Establishment are determined to bring it into line.

John Pilger: "TERROR IN BRITAIN: WHAT DID THE PRIME MINISTER KNOW?"

http://johnpilger.com/…/terror-in-britain-what-did-the-prim…

A London attacker and UK covert operations in Syria and Libya. The Telegraph reports that London attacker Rachid Redouane fought in the 2011 British/NATO war against Qadafi – as did Salman Abedi, the Manchester bomber – and joined a militia which went on to send jihadist fighters to Syria. In Libya, he is believed to have fought with the Liwa al Ummah unit.

http://markcurtis.info/…/a-london-attacker-and-uk-covert-…/…

Sorted' by MI5: How UK government sent British-Libyans to fight Gaddafi

http://www.middleeasteye.net/…/sorted-mi5-how-uk-government…

British Libyans and Libyan exiles in Britain, who saw their “control orders” lifted and their passports returned by MI5 six years ago so they could go and fight Gaddafi were never going to turn into sober citizens the day after his fall. Just as the link is undeniable between the perpetrators of 9/11 and the US and Saudi backing for Jihadis fighting the Communists in Afghanistan in the 1980s, so too is the connection between the Manchester bombing and the British Government using Salafi-jihadis from the UK to get rid of Gaddafi.

https://www.counterpunch.org/…/we-cant-britainbecome-a-vas…/

Terrifying if true!

Tom

 

[tillson]

At first glance, I wondered what Theresa May had to do with some of Arsenal's first-team squad. On reading the material with it, I soon realised that it's connected with May's time as Home Secretary but of course, it's just anti-tory propaganda promulgated by left-wing agitators to discredit this tory government. You know that and I know that........or do we?

View attachment 21356

Even Orwell couldn't have made this stuff up.

Theresa May, as Home Secretary, and with the assistance of MI5, allowed British jihadists a green light to travel in and out of the UK, actively encouraging them to polish their skills in terrorism in order to bring down Gaddafi and join Al Qaeda. In the aftermath of last week's stunt in London, she has now sworn to 'protect' us from those same terrorists, claiming that MI5 is 'on their trail'.The burning plastic bucket, which might as well have been a big black ball with a fizzing fuse and the word 'Bomb' written on it, was enough to necessitate troops being put onto the streets of London.May has sworn to 'bring the terrorists to justice', but has also outed another enemy responsible for the atrocity. This foe is named by the Daily Mail as 'The Internet Bosses'. If you didn't know that the internet had 'bosses', the Mail helpfully explains exactly who they are: The 'heads of technology giants such as Facebook, Microsoft and Google'. It Was Them Wot Done It.The Mail suggests that terrorists are forced to Google 'how to make a bomb?', in order to carry out their plans.Viscount Rothermere's rag, unfortunately, doesn't explain why the jihadists don't simply call up their handlers at Thames House and ask them.Clearly, another attack on social media is being prepared. May and her cronies now realise that the days of newspaper proprietors swinging an election are over. The reputation of the BBC has been well and truly trashed. Social media is king and the British Establishment are determined to bring it into line.

John Pilger: "TERROR IN BRITAIN: WHAT DID THE PRIME MINISTER KNOW?"

http://johnpilger.com/…/terror-in-britain-what-did-the-prim…

A London attacker and UK covert operations in Syria and Libya. The Telegraph reports that London attacker Rachid Redouane fought in the 2011 British/NATO war against Qadafi – as did Salman Abedi, the Manchester bomber – and joined a militia which went on to send jihadist fighters to Syria. In Libya, he is believed to have fought with the Liwa al Ummah unit.

http://markcurtis.info/…/a-london-attacker-and-uk-covert-…/…

Sorted' by MI5: How UK government sent British-Libyans to fight Gaddafi

http://www.middleeasteye.net/…/sorted-mi5-how-uk-government…

British Libyans and Libyan exiles in Britain, who saw their “control orders” lifted and their passports returned by MI5 six years ago so they could go and fight Gaddafi were never going to turn into sober citizens the day after his fall. Just as the link is undeniable between the perpetrators of 9/11 and the US and Saudi backing for Jihadis fighting the Communists in Afghanistan in the 1980s, so too is the connection between the Manchester bombing and the British Government using Salafi-jihadis from the UK to get rid of Gaddafi.

https://www.counterpunch.org/…/we-cant-britainbecome-a-vas…/

Terrifying if true!

Tom

I'm not sure what to make of this. At first I thought the article was highly improbable, and if forced into deciding one way or the other, would come down on the side of it being an overreaction.

Having said the above, where have we seen organisations cast as villains by government before? Public opinion cynically turned against the very people who represent their best interests. Unions cast as destructive and obstructive, public service workers portrayed as inefficient with unfair bloated pensions, mine workers as militants stuck in a bygone age.

Is it unreasonable for us extrapolate this pattern of government behaviour to the digital age? Social media, probable the greatest ever platform for the mass population to exchange information, knowledge and ideas. Social media and other on line environments are quickly neutralising the billionaire owned and controlled traditional information / news sources. They are becoming less able to dictate what we believe, think and how we act.

If people can be convinced that "Internet Bosses" are helping terrorists to build their bombs by allowing them to access instructions and materials, how easy it will be to bring in controls to edit, filter & delete "inappropriate" material which does not fit the government's agenda. In fact, with correctly chosen words, I bet it would be possible to make people actually demand government controls regarding online information exchange.

This would feed & satisfy May's cravings completely. Such is her inadequacy in all things people related, she can only function when all rights to answer back have been removed.

So what are we going to do about it?

 

[Danidl]

At first glance, I wondered what Theresa May had to do with some of Arsenal's first-team squad. On reading the material with it, I soon realised that it's connected with May's time as Home Secretary but of course, it's just anti-tory propaganda promulgated by left-wing agitators to discredit this tory government. You know that and I know that........or do we?

View attachment 21356

Even Orwell couldn't have made this stuff up.

Theresa May, as Home Secretary, and with the assistance of MI5, allowed British jihadists a green light to travel in and out of the UK, actively encouraging them to polish their skills in terrorism in order to bring down Gaddafi and join Al Qaeda. In the aftermath of last week's stunt in London, she has now sworn to 'protect' us from those same terrorists, claiming that MI5 is 'on their trail'.The burning plastic bucket, which might as well have been a big black ball with a fizzing fuse and the word 'Bomb' written on it, was enough to necessitate troops being put onto the streets of London.May has sworn to 'bring the terrorists to justice', but has also outed another enemy responsible for the atrocity. This foe is named by the Daily Mail as 'The Internet Bosses'. If you didn't know that the internet had 'bosses', the Mail helpfully explains exactly who they are: The 'heads of technology giants such as Facebook, Microsoft and Google'. It Was Them Wot Done It.The Mail suggests that terrorists are forced to Google 'how to make a bomb?', in order to carry out their plans.Viscount Rothermere's rag, unfortunately, doesn't explain why the jihadists don't simply call up their handlers at Thames House and ask them.Clearly, another attack on social media is being prepared. May and her cronies now realise that the days of newspaper proprietors swinging an election are over. The reputation of the BBC has been well and truly trashed. Social media is king and the British Establishment are determined to bring it into line.

John Pilger: "TERROR IN BRITAIN: WHAT DID THE PRIME MINISTER KNOW?"

http://johnpilger.com/…/terror-in-britain-what-did-the-prim…

A London attacker and UK covert operations in Syria and Libya. The Telegraph reports that London attacker Rachid Redouane fought in the 2011 British/NATO war against Qadafi – as did Salman Abedi, the Manchester bomber – and joined a militia which went on to send jihadist fighters to Syria. In Libya, he is believed to have fought with the Liwa al Ummah unit.

http://markcurtis.info/…/a-london-attacker-and-uk-covert-…/…

Sorted' by MI5: How UK government sent British-Libyans to fight Gaddafi

http://www.middleeasteye.net/…/sorted-mi5-how-uk-government…

British Libyans and Libyan exiles in Britain, who saw their “control orders” lifted and their passports returned by MI5 six years ago so they could go and fight Gaddafi were never going to turn into sober citizens the day after his fall. Just as the link is undeniable between the perpetrators of 9/11 and the US and Saudi backing for Jihadis fighting the Communists in Afghanistan in the 1980s, so too is the connection between the Manchester bombing and the British Government using Salafi-jihadis from the UK to get rid of Gaddafi.

https://www.counterpunch.org/…/we-cant-britainbecome-a-vas…/

Terrifying if true!

Tom

There is a long history of this.. of governments funding criminal or dissent groups to sow mayhem in a opposition camp. , And then after that conflict is over the group continues to do what it does best.

The USA took a moribund criminal gang in Sicily in the 1940s for the war effort which grew into Mafia. And as you have said they took and armed a group in brigands in Afghanistan, to harass the Russians and it grew into the Taliban and Isis.

 

[flecc]

So what are we going to do about it?

Take our cue from the Italians and put a length of rope and a lamp post to good use?
.

 

[oldtom]

Take our cue from the Italians and put a length of rope and a lamp post to good use?
.

Was that your Italian heritage coming briefly to the fore for a moment then 'flecc'?

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

Was that your Italian heritage coming briefly to the fore for a moment then 'flecc'?

Tom

"You leave him alone,hey?
He'sa gooda Boy
Kinda to his a Momma."

Mrs Capone

 

[flecc]

Was that your Italian heritage coming briefly to the fore for a moment then 'flecc'?

Tom

Probably more my instinct to go for the simplest and quickest solution to any problem!
.

 

[oldgroaner]

I'm not sure what to make of this. At first I thought the article was highly improbable, and if forced into deciding one way or the other, would come down on the side of it being an overreaction.

Having said the above, where have we seen organisations cast as villains by government before? Public opinion cynically turned against the very people who represent their best interests. Unions cast as destructive and obstructive, public service workers portrayed as inefficient with unfair bloated pensions, mine workers as militants stuck in a bygone age.

Is it unreasonable for us extrapolate this pattern of government behaviour to the digital age? Social media, probable the greatest ever platform for the mass population to exchange information, knowledge and ideas. Social media and other on line environments are quickly neutralising the billionaire owned and controlled traditional information / news sources. They are becoming less able to dictate what we believe, think and how we act.

If people can be convinced that "Internet Bosses" are helping terrorists to build their bombs by allowing them to access instructions and materials, how easy it will be to bring in controls to edit, filter & delete "inappropriate" material which does not fit the government's agenda. In fact, with correctly chosen words, I bet it would be possible to make people actually demand government controls regarding online information exchange.

This would feed & satisfy May's cravings completely. Such is her inadequacy in all things people related, she can only function when all rights to answer back have been removed.

So what are we going to do about it?

Truth? I wonder when that was last a widespread thing.

Certainly to use religious nut cases as a weapon would fall well within the Moral Compass of the Conservative Party, and then to fail to safely dispose of said weapon, or rather find another use for them even more atypical.