Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

1) You still haven’t answered my question regarding your present income. Is it entirely sourced from work that you currently do, or is it from investments such as a pension? If you are in receipt of a pension, it is almost certain that you are benefiting from property investment. So what do you have to say now?

2) Do you have a bank account? If so, how do you think the considerable administration costs are funded? That’s right, you enjoy free or vastly reduced banking administration costs because your money is invested in property and “tax dodging” companies.

3) I’ve made it clear that there exists many people who are unable to work and support themselves and / or their families through circumstances beyond their control. They are the people for who the welfare system was designed and intended and long may that continue with appropriate funding. There also exists a good number of people who have tapped into the welfare system and mine it for free money. Because the welfare pot is not infinite, the latter group are effectively stealing from the needy. It is the latter group who should be tackled by measures such as slashing benefit payments for blatant idleness or squandering opportunities of work & training. The money saved from the cuts which they bring upon themselves should be used to boost the income of the genuine cases.

4) Unless you have no pension, no bank account and no savings, you, I and many others on here are all property investors. What separates me and you is that I choose to manage my own portfolio of investments rather than pay someone to do it for me. I have invested in the stock market, property, a final salary pension scheme (since the day I left school) and conventional savings. I would say that the probability of you having done the same is very high, albeit you have a managed fund.

The problem with socialism in the UK is that it has mutated into a jeleous hatred of ordinary working people who do nothing more than an ordinary job for ordinary pay, but have the sense to plan their financial futures.

Actually I don't remember agreeing to answer any of your questions, but in simple terms I live on the proceeds of a company pension, and have no other investments.
But then I have no debts worthy of the name as we bought the house with cash rather than a mortgage.
Strange then that I feel no jealousy, as you do for the "Scroungers" that wind you up so remarkably.
Frankly I regard the chasing after wealth which you see as a virtue as a weakness, preferring to live a normal life free of jealousy of others.
You really do get wound up with this greed/jealousy thing, don't you?
Why aren't you satisfied with what you already have?
"Socialism in the UK is that it has mutated into a jeleous hatred of ordinary working people who do nothing more than an ordinary job for ordinary pay, but have the sense to plan their financial futures."

Because I pointed out the damage that house price inflation has damaged the nation and you invest in it?
That's not "Jealous hatred" it is simply pointing out that it is not a virtue to damage society in the long term for short term profit.
Perhaps a little thought for planning for the long term financial future of others than yourself wouldn't go amiss?
What you are in fact investing in is simply a bad idea long term.
There are three levels to our society that need to change their ways.

1. The Rich that parasite off the rest
2. The "aspiring" like yourself that invest in schemes that cause long term economic harm
3. The idle scroungers who need to be found useful and viable long term employment, not seen as a queue of casual labour that can be picked up and dropped at will, and starved and bullied into a sullen compliance.

In other words Society needs to Grow up and stop making a virtue of both greed and idleness.

It appears there has been doubt about second homes in the past
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/mar/21/help-to-buy-scheme-exploited-second-homeowners

 

[tillson]

It has more to do with propping up property prices and buying middle class "centre ground" votes than helping anyone

It’s about supporting and encouraging people who just want to progress through life via hard work. Perhaps that’s the problem some have with it.

 

[Woosh]

It helped my niece, she is a big fan. She wanted the security of owning rather than renting. That’s her choice and she works hard.

there is always the bank of mum & dad.
you invest in properties, you could have helped your niece by co-investing with her.
The problem with the property market is the mad over reliance of investors on it in their strategy.
Interest rate may go up toward 3% within the next 10-20 years, how will people who were helped to buy cope with their mortgage?

 

[tillson]

Actually I don't remember agreeing to answer any of your questions, but in simple terms I live on the proceeds of a company pension, and have no other investments.
But then I have no debts worthy of the name as we bought the house with cash rather than a mortgage.
Strange then that I feel no jealousy, as you do for the "Scroungers" that wind you up so remarkably.
Frankly I regard the chasing after wealth which you see as a virtue as a weakness, preferring to live a normal life free of jealousy of others.
You really do get wound up with this greed/jealousy thing, don't you?
Why aren't you satisfied with what you already have?
"Socialism in the UK is that it has mutated into a jeleous hatred of ordinary working people who do nothing more than an ordinary job for ordinary pay, but have the sense to plan their financial futures."

Because I pointed out the damage that house price inflation has damaged the nation and you invest in it?
That's not "Jealous hatred" it is simply pointing out that it is not a virtue to damage society in the long term for short term profit.
Perhaps a little thought for planning for the long term financial future of others than yourself wouldn't go amiss?
What you are in fact investing in is simply a bad idea long term.
There are three levels to our society that need to change their ways.

1. The Rich that parasite off the rest
2. The "aspiring" like yourself that invest in schemes that cause long term economic harm
3. The idle scroungers who need to be found useful and viable long term employment, not seen as a queue of casual labour that can be picked up and dropped at will, and starved and bullied into a sullen compliance.

In other words Society needs to Grow up and stop making a virtue of both greed and idleness.

So if we boil all the crap out of this, we are left with you receiving a pension from a managed company pension fund which most likely investments in property, including housing. In other words, you profit from the property market. Remove the fund manager and you & I invest in the same way, but perhaps with different ratios.

I’m not chasing money, my retirement plan has always been to retire with 100% final salary which stands the best chance of being protected against inflation. Through a diverse range of investment and risk spread, which includes property, managed funds, and a final salary scheme, I’m there. Good luck to anyone else trying to achieve that, as they will know you have to make sacrifices along the way.

 

[oldgroaner]

I've just been looking at the list of notable members to see how far down the list you have to go before you get to someone who normally posts sense. You name stood out, but you don't post much in the bikes forums, so I clicked on your recent activity to see what you're up to, and I came to this post.

I couldn't have put it nearly as well as you did. Unfortunately, you're only feeding these trolls, so you don't get anything for your efforts except more chunder spouted out at you from their malfunctioning internal systems.

Not big on the virtue of debate are you?

 

[oldgroaner]

I must revisit this reference to the government’s help to buy scheme of yours again.

You know very well that you can’t use the scheme to buy a second home. So why did you post those words?

Help to buy has benefitted many young working people. My niece has just moved into her first home as a result of this. She had a low paid job as a waitress which she did for many years & rented a flat. She went to night school and studied hard. Now she is a medical technician in the NHS preparing opening theatres. This together with help to buy has enabled her to have a secure home. Why do your socialist attitudes motivate you to deliberately report this scheme as being something which is bad?

Because it reinforces the effect of the damage the housing prices cause to society.

 

[oldgroaner]

So if we boil all the crap out of this, we are left with you receiving a pension from a managed company pension fund which most likely investments in property, including housing. In other words, you profit from the property market. Remove the fund manager and you & I invest in the same way, but perhaps with different ratios.

I’m not chasing money, my retirement plan has always been to retire with 100% final salary which stands the best chance of being protected against inflation. Through a diverse range of investment and risk spread, which includes property, managed funds, and a final salary scheme, I’m there. Good luck to anyone else trying to achieve that, as they will know you have to make sacrifices along the way.

The difference between us remains this.
One of us hates "The feckless and idle that sponge off society"
the other one takes the view that this is an entirely inadequate and juvenile reaction to a serious problem.
These are people too and society needs to find a useful place for them.

 

[oldgroaner]

It’s about supporting and encouraging people who just want to progress through life via hard work. Perhaps that’s the problem some have with it.

No,the problem isn't that, it is simply the wrong answer and makes matters worse.

 

[tillson]

Because it reinforces the effect of the damage the housing prices cause to society.

The difference between us remains this.
One of us hates "The feckless and idle that sponge off society"
the other one takes the view that this is an entirely inadequate and juvenile reaction to a serious problem.
These are people too and society needs to find a useful place for them.

I don't hate them, I think they need straightening out. Free money is not the way to do that. More stick, less carrot.

 

[tillson]

Actually I don't remember agreeing to answer any of your questions, but in simple terms I live on the proceeds of a company pension, and have no other investments.
But then I have no debts worthy of the name as we bought the house with cash rather than a mortgage.
Strange then that I feel no jealousy, as you do for the "Scroungers" that wind you up so remarkably.
Frankly I regard the chasing after wealth which you see as a virtue as a weakness, preferring to live a normal life free of jealousy of others.
You really do get wound up with this greed/jealousy thing, don't you?
Why aren't you satisfied with what you already have?
"Socialism in the UK is that it has mutated into a jeleous hatred of ordinary working people who do nothing more than an ordinary job for ordinary pay, but have the sense to plan their financial futures."

Because I pointed out the damage that house price inflation has damaged the nation and you invest in it?
That's not "Jealous hatred" it is simply pointing out that it is not a virtue to damage society in the long term for short term profit.
Perhaps a little thought for planning for the long term financial future of others than yourself wouldn't go amiss?
What you are in fact investing in is simply a bad idea long term.
There are three levels to our society that need to change their ways.

1. The Rich that parasite off the rest
2. The "aspiring" like yourself that invest in schemes that cause long term economic harm
3. The idle scroungers who need to be found useful and viable long term employment, not seen as a queue of casual labour that can be picked up and dropped at will, and starved and bullied into a sullen compliance.

In other words Society needs to Grow up and stop making a virtue of both greed and idleness.

It appears there has been doubt about second homes in the past
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/mar/21/help-to-buy-scheme-exploited-second-homeowners

Having reviewed your investments, I feel that you should use the following logo from here onwards

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[OxygenJames]

flecc wrote: "ethnic cleansing"

eh what https://knoema.com/atlas/Palestine/Death-rate

https://knoema.com/atlas/Palestine/Population-growth-rate

"Palestine population growth rate was at level of 2.9 % in 2016, unchanged from the previous year."

"Since the establishment of limited Palestinian self-rule in the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the mid-1990s, the U.S. government has committed more than $5 billion in bilateral economic and non-lethal security assistance to the Palestinians , who are among the world's largest per capita recipients of international foreign aid."

If the Israelis / West are doing what you claim, (unsucessfully if their intention is to wipe them out) then maybe they should take lessons from Assad / Putin...

Don't confuse them with facts. This lot have been brainwashed with the usual progressive-liberal nonsense and believe all the problems in the middle east are due to Israel. Nothing will change their minds.

 

[OxygenJames]

Once again, if the Palestinian population within Palestine is continually increasing then your claimed Israeli & western policy of "Ethnic Cleansing" is going backwards - tunnels seem to operate one way bringing in Mercs, weapons & exclusive foods to order but despite the potential to leave there is no mass exodus for some reason (Hamas regulate the tunnels holding their own folk hostage?)

"military control beyond reason."

What reasonable response do you suggest is made when Hamas launches rocket and mortar plus knife and vehicle attacks against Israelis.

If Hamas had the firepower that Israel possesses what do think would happen to Israel, bearing in mind one of the stated goals of Hamas is the destruction of Israel: 'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.' ?

Again. This lot do not like their opinions disturbed by facts. You will only upset them.

 

[OxygenJames]

Again I cant help but agree when compared to the corrupt govt we seem to have now.
But surely why cant a reasonable policy for us all be championed by someone along lines of Makron in France? I suspect the reason for that is Blair ???

We seem to be offered either extreme of the political spectrum, both of which are intrinsically faulty by nature. We need a centralist stand capable of compromise and accommodation for all.

More progressive nonsense. Some of the 'all' you want to compromise and accommodate has only one thing in mind - your destruction. ISIS comes to mind. Hamas (if you're Israeli) - comes to mind. It's about winning. This is why you hate Trump. He is the first politician since Thatcher to have the balls to express this stuff.

 

[OxygenJames]

Flec I came back to see if you'd commented on my thoughts on Socialism in Sweden. I can't find it anywhere so if you did and I didn't respond back I apologise.

 

[OxygenJames]

Which doesn't alter the facts.

The Jews have no legitimate historical or genetic exclusive claim to the land they've named Israel.
.

All countries were formed by the winners.

What are you going to do? Give America back to the Indians? Give Australia back to the aborigines?

 

[OxygenJames]

I agree on how Blair messed up our politics, he did immense damage to that and indeed the country's international reputation. I also agree that a social democrat central position is desirable.

But perhaps a swing to the extreme of a truly left socialist government might lead us to follow with a truly centralist outcome? For too long we've had most parties pretending to occupy the central ground in their manifestos, but doing very different in government. The Conservatives letting their extremes of the 1922 committee hold sway, Labour letting and even encouraging Blair's tory stance, both have been utterly dishonest to the electorate, not intending what people voted for.

The bias has long been too far to the right, hence the corruption, endemic to all extremes. Now a swing to the far left that we've never experienced in Britain could bring outcomes educating the electorate into avoiding both extremes. That could only be good.
.

I think that is a distinct possibility. We may well need to put up with Corbyn and his economic illiterates for 5 even ten years before this latest generation learns the fundamental rule of life: Central planning does not make a thriving economy.

Whats that old saying - if you're not a socialist in your 20s you don't have a heart - if you're not a conservative by your 50s you don't have a head.

 

[Woosh]

Central planning does not make a thriving economy.

there are good examples to the contrary.

 

[flecc]

All countries were formed by the winners.

What are you going to do? Give America back to the Indians? Give Australia back to the aborigines?

Of course not. But the world has changed and the UN exists in part to prevent those past primitive methods of claiming countries. Clearly it wasn't working well when it actually condoned one of those abuses due to US pressure.

However your parallels are wildly inaccurate. Settlers moved into Australia and Northern America, they didn't invade. Fighting only ensued when the occupants attacked them.

Zionists attacked in Palestine when there was no need to. Large numbers of Jews had lived in peace in Palestine for many centuries, as they had in all other Arab countries and Persia (Iran).
.

 

[flecc]

I think that is a distinct possibility. We may well need to put up with Corbyn and his economic illiterates for 5 even ten years before this latest generation learns the fundamental rule of life: Central planning does not make a thriving economy.

There is much I agree with here, but I think you go too far and that is the basis of most of the disagreements here.

Conservatism taken too far, Socialism taken too far, Capitalism taken too far. Unfettered none of them work well.

A little moderation is sadly lacking.
.

 

[flecc]

Whats that old saying - if you're not a socialist in your 20s you don't have a heart - if you're not a conservative by your 50s you don't have a head.

The reverse for me. When young I voted Conservative, but with age I gained more heart and embraced moderate Socialism. I don't want the extremes of either.
.