Brexit, for once some facts.

[tillson]

I think that you forget why the benefits culture came into being.
Any idea why? lets see

1. Was it because successive Tory and Labour Governments suddenly became generous and wanted to benefit the public?
2. Was it to buy peace after the full time jobs and long term security needed to raise a family had disappeared after deindustrialisation?

And now because you object to paying to maintain this situation you imagine you can get away with simply punishing these people you despise into accepting that not having a means to have a long term future, raise a family etc they will live the life of menials so your cosy lifestyle if protected?
Do you imagine you will get away with that?

Apparently the Government didn't agree or they wouldn't have created the welfare situation in the first place would they?

Unless you want riots on your hands you need to offer long term security that these people your prejudice causes you to despise before you judge and condemn them to being menials to save you money.

The only monstrosities in this country are those that imagine themselves better than anyone else and look down on others less fortunate because they are lucky enough to be employed.

Society is here for the benefit of all, if not it is just a rat race.
If you want these people to work why have you voted for Brexit, which will destroy jobs?

You make it sound like the situation that these dole type people are in is the fault of others. It’s always someone else’s fault, never their own.

I know full well that there are a great many people, who through no fault of their own, are unable to earn a living. I don’t think anyone objects to them receiving whatever state supports is necessary. You and I also know full well that there are just as many who have absolutely no intentions of working, educating or improving themselves. They choose the free money and top it up with a bit of cash in hand labour & in some cases a sprinkling of petty crime. Maybe these people will riot if the free money tap is turned off, but they can be crushed. They aren’t the most industrious of people, being lacklustre & devoid of organisational skills. Their rioting, if that’s what they choose, can be met with overwhelming force, violence and brutally. Of course, no one is making them choose the rioting path, but if that is what they want and would like to engage in, they should expect the above in return. Life is full of choices and opportunity.

 

[Zlatan]

look again I was adding them to your list of utterances, even I could have worked that out.

Nah, can't belive that.

 

[Zlatan]

You make it sound like the situation that these dole type people are in is the fault of others. It’s always someone else’s fault, never their own.

I know full well that there are a great many people, who through no fault of their own, are unable to earn a living. I don’t think anyone objects to them receiving whatever state supports is necessary. You and I also know full well that there are just as many who have absolutely no intentions of working, educating or improving themselves. They choose the free money and top it up with a bit of cash in hand labour & in some cases a sprinkling of petty crime. Maybe these people will riot if the free money tap is turned off, but they can be crushed. They aren’t the most industrious of people, being lacklustre & devoid of organisational skills. Their rioting, if that’s what they choose, can be met with overwhelming force, violence and brutally. Of course, no one is making them choose the rioting path, but if that is what they want and would like to engage in, they should expect the above in return. Life is full of choices and opportunity.

Yes, the old ones in Hull are revolting. I, ve seen with my own eyes. It's terrible, a fate worse than a fate worse than death. They might even start to riot soon.

 

[oldgroaner]

You make it sound like the situation that these dole type people are in is the fault of others. It’s always someone else’s fault, never their own.

I know full well that there are a great many people, who through no fault of their own, are unable to earn a living. I don’t think anyone objects to them receiving whatever state supports is necessary. You and I also know full well that there are just as many who have absolutely no intentions of working, educating or improving themselves. They choose the free money and top it up with a bit of cash in hand labour & in some cases a sprinkling of petty crime. Maybe these people will riot if the free money tap is turned off, but they can be crushed. They aren’t the most industrious of people, being lacklustre & devoid of organisational skills. Their rioting, if that’s what they choose, can be met with overwhelming force, violence and brutally. Of course, no one is making them choose the rioting path, but if that is what they want and would like to engage in, they should expect the above in return. Life is full of choices and opportunity.

Do sit down it will take the strident note out of your voice.
Brexit seems to bring out the worst in it's supporters, they don't need you to add a dash of jealousy and anger

As an example of the actions of HM Government,
"It has been retrospectively estimated that the official measure for calculating the unemployment rate was changed at least 29 times between 1979 and 1989.[21] Later in the decade, the government began instructing doctors with the National Health Service to find ways where they could to diagnose unemployed patients with illnesses or injuries resulting from their previous work so they could receive sickness or invalidity benefit and thus no longer be considered unemployed. By some measures, the rate of workers receiving that benefit quintupled during the 1980s"

If you believe official employment and benefit figures you have to remember that they are to a large extent Fictional

 

[oldgroaner]

Yes, the old ones in Hull are revolting. I, ve seen with my own eyes. It's terrible, a fate worse than a fate worse than death. They might even start to riot soon.

Nope, they tend to move to Rotherham

 

[oldgroaner]

Nah, can't belive that.

Or spell believe?

 

[oldgroaner]

You make it sound like the situation that these dole type people are in is the fault of others. It’s always someone else’s fault, never their own.

Life is full of choices and opportunity.

Indeed for the rich the Offshore bank accounts, for the poor, food banks or an extended stay at an establishment "at her Majesty's Pleasure"

 

[oldgroaner]

Why would we need driving permits all of a sudden? Non- EU residents already drive in the EU without a permit and EU residents drive in Non-EU countries without one. What’s the problem?

I think many of the “leaving problems” don’t actually exist. They are manufactured.

No, they are in fact perfectly understandable and should have been oganised to eliminate them.

 

[Zlatan]

Nope, they tend to move to Rotherham

Or Knightsbridge, apparently they are similar. So it said in Mail yesterday, so it must be true.

 

[Zlatan]

There is a verb to belive, believe it or not..means to remain tho... So it must be bull sh! te..
So you are a beliver OG... Amongst other things.

 

[anotherkiwi]

So why is Southern Europe running over 40% youth unemployed.?
Amazing how EU is responsible for positive examples but has nothing to do with failures.

Young people in the south (and other parts of) of Spain work, just not in jobs where they are declared as workers. The grey and black economy are still there after 40 odd years of moving from a fascist dictatorship to a democratic constitutional monarchy. So are the fascists...

 

[oldgroaner]

You see many comments from Mp's and members of the Public saying to hell with the EU, let's leave and go with the WTO option
What is the most unlikely place to find this idea being blown out of the water as a disaster?

The Leave HQ no less

http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128

Enjoy!

Especially this bit
"
Yet one of the most important types of trade agreement is the Mutual Recognition Agreement (MRA) on conformity assessment. This gets round the problem of border checks, as the EU will then recognise the paperwork on product testing and conformity certification. Throw in an agreement on Customs cooperation — to ensure that official paperwork and systems mesh — and you are on your way to trouble-free border crossings.

Which to put it crudely urinates on Jackass Grease Smug's bonfire!

 

[oldgroaner]

This is the expectations of the leave voters at the time of the referendum
""To what extent, if at all, do you think that each of the following will be better or worse in two years' time - the UK economy
Leave voters:
Better 53% Worse 19% Same/don't know 28%"
source
http://www.comresglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/BBC-News_Tables_Brexit-Expectations_11072016.pdf

the government’s own leaked internal analysis of a WTO Brexit estimated a GDP loss of up to 10.3 per cent.

That is what a hard Brexit amounts to and there are going to be some very disappointed people...

 

[gray198]

This is the expectations of the leave voters at the time of the referendum
""To what extent, if at all, do you think that each of the following will be better or worse in two years' time - the UK economy
Leave voters:
Better 53% Worse 19% Same/don't know 28%"
source
http://www.comresglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/BBC-News_Tables_Brexit-Expectations_11072016.pdf

the government’s own leaked internal analysis of a WTO Brexit estimated a GDP loss of up to 10.3 per cent.

That is what a hard Brexit amounts to and there are going to be some very disappointed people...

we had some pretty gloomy predictions during the campaign from some notable '' experts '' but they were all wrong. I suppose the law of averages says that they will get one right eventually

 

[Danidl]

we had some pretty gloomy predictions during the campaign from some notable '' experts '' but they were all wrong. I suppose the law of averages says that they will get one right eventually

.. as I have become tired of repeating, .. the UK has not even left. You cannot possibly believe that the process is going swimmingly well. In a semi related matter, the DUP MP for north Antrim, has been suspended for reporting irregularities, and a bye election could be legally triggered.Were this to happen, (unlikely), it is possible that a non DUP candidate (improbable ,but another flavour of unionist possible), the calculus of the the HoC destroyed and house of cards could fall.!
Again which unnamed experts do you refer to..... . Much of the analysis from around Europe has been born out ,and nothing legally has yet changed.

 

[gray198]

.. as I have become tired of repeating, .. the UK has not even left. You cannot possibly believe that the process is going swimmingly well. In a semi related matter, the DUP MP for north Antrim, has been suspended for reporting irregularities, and a bye election could be legally triggered.Were this to happen, (unlikely), it is possible that a non DUP candidate (improbable ,but another flavour of unionist possible), the calculus of the the HoC destroyed and house of cards could fall.!
Again which unnamed experts do you refer to..... . Much of the analysis from around Europe has been born out ,and Sagan nothing legally has yet changed.

the predictions were based on us actually voting to leave. We were going to have an instant recession/emergency budget/lose 500,000 jobs etc. All turned out to be spectacularly wrong. Experts Governor of BOE, Christine Lagarde, George Osborne and many more

 

[oldgroaner]

we had some pretty gloomy predictions during the campaign from some notable '' experts '' but they were all wrong. I suppose the law of averages says that they will get one right eventually

Not so, many of the predictions came true, and as yet we haven't left, have we?

 

[oldgroaner]

the predictions were based on us actually voting to leave. We were going to have an instant recession/emergency budget/lose 500,000 jobs etc. All turned out to be spectacularly wrong. Experts Governor of BOE, Christine Lagarde, George Osborne and many more

So you can quote a couple, we can quote far more promises made by the leave campaign that were simply lies, and not all predictions of problems ahead were wrong , you would be very foolish to imagine there isn't big trouble ahead.
Kidding yourself using old propaganda that all is well is foolish

 

[Zlatan]

Notice most powerful man in Europe has been on sauce again. If he were in teaching, a doctor, a pilot or anything with some accountable responsibility he, d probably be sacked or at least under investigation.

 

[gray198]

So you can quote a couple, we can quote far more promises made by the leave campaign that were simply lies, and not all predictions of problems ahead were wrong , you would be very foolish to imagine there isn't big trouble ahead.
Kidding yourself using old propaganda that all is well is foolish

I am sure there will be many problems ahead. Nobody ever thought it would be easy, and yes many stupid statements were made by both factions, but the fact is we voted to leave the EU despite all the threats and negative prophesies. Also there is big trouble brewing in europe, and I think they may struggle to keep a lid on it. We just need to get it done and get out. What's the saying? No pain No gain. If the government fudges this and keeps us in by the back door there will be repercussions for years to come