Brexit, for once some facts.

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
'if you can keep your head when all others are losing theirs - you will be a man my boy'.
You're back again with even more drivel! Have you never been advised that it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and prove it?

I note that once again you have contributed zilch to the great question of what might 'Brexit do for the British people…..or the economy…..or to relations between the UK and the rest of the world……in other words, nothing whatsoever once more about 'Brexit'.

I really didn't think you could sink any deeper in my estimation but you proved me wrong!

Tom
 
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Wicky

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Feb 12, 2014
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www.jhepburn.co.uk
There's a super quote from JRM on that Sky News page in which he expresses his regained confidence in May. That's the political equivalent of a major football club chairman giving the manager a vote of confidence even though the team has been in the bottom three in the league for the last 10 games - they usually don't last more than a month after that!

Tom
JRM was as dryly sarcastic as he always sounds while declaring his everlasting loyalty to her (till he stabs her in the back again) while she looked down at her shoes as if she'd trodden in doggie doo on the way in and had just caught a whiff - before he went on praising her for not giving in to a 2nd referendum for the plebs, as if she went down that route then the Scots might get upppity again and want a rerun of their independence referendum.

T'was like reading Tom Brown's Schooldays again and JRM was channelling his inner Flashman with May as ickle Tom Brown on the recieving end of his cruel threats.
 
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oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
JRM was as dryly sarcastic as he always sounds while declaring his everlasting loyalty to her (till he stabs her in the back again) while she looked down at her shoes as if she'd trodden in doggie doo on the way in and had just caught a whiff - before he went on praising her for not giving in to a 2nd referendum for the plebs, as if she went down that route then the Scots might get upppity again and want a rerun of their independence referendum.

T'was like reading Tom Brown's Schooldays again and JRM was channelling his inner Flashman with May as ickle Tom Brown on the recieving end of his cruel threats.
Brilliant,' Wicky'!

Tom
 
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Wicky

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Also an HS2 critical documentary, University Challenge and documentary about type 45 missile destroyer HMS Duncan in action off Syria.

For a change no trash TV like "Strictly Come Dancing" etc.
.
ITV 2 Love Island: The Christmas Reunion Caroline Flack hosts at the cast meet up at a country mansion for the ultimate festive get-together, where the Islanders reveal the truth behind those headline-grabbing break-ups.

Art imitating life of a gathering of May's old Cabinet members gathering at Chequers over Crimbo fuelled by sherry & champers...
 
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Fingers

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I'm too sensible to have visited anything other than a tiny fraction of the entire internet. The only other forums I visit are three natural history ones and I don't belong to any social media outlets.

So maybe not a very big win.
.

A win is a win. First Brexit now this!

Call me butter cos I’m on a roll!
 
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Fingers

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Feb 9, 2016
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You're back again with even more drivel! Have you never been advised that it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and prove it?

I note that once again you have contributed zilch to the great question of what might 'Brexit do for the British people…..or the economy…..or to relations between the UK and the rest of the world……in other words, nothing whatsoever once more about 'Brexit'.

I really didn't think you could sink any deeper in my estimation but you proved me wrong!

Tom

Where does Jimmy stack when compared to Zlats?

Who is worst? I’m third but who is number two?
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
45,229
21,807
ITV 2 Love Island: The Christmas Reunion Caroline Flack hosts at the cast meet up at a country mansion for the ultimate festive get-together, where the Islanders reveal the truth behind those headline-grabbing break-ups.
I only looked at the frontline 5 channels to see what was on.
.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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On 7th January Channel 4 will have a drama-documentary titled, "Brexit - the uncivil war".

From the trailer it looks like it will be dishing the dirt on the Brexiters dirty tricks.
.
 
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oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer




After Theresa May gave an extraordinarily evasive and unacceptable answer on when she's going to hold the meaningful Brexit vote that she sidelined parliament by postponing last week (because she knew she was going to lose it) Jeremy Corbyn has tabled a parliamentary no confidence vote in her as Prime Minister.
This isn't a confidence vote in the government under the Fixed Term Parliament Act, so it wouldn't necessarily bring down the entire Tory government if it went against her, and the reason he's decided to do it this way is obvious.
If Corbyn tried to use a government no confidence vote to bring down Theresa May and her Tory mates, he'd end up unifying the spectacularly divided Tories and their DUP backers, lose the vote, and humiliate himself in the process.
Tory self-interest would obviously not allow them to actively vote to bring down their own government, and the DUP have very clearly indicated that they would back the government under a no confidence scenario (because their current position of holding the UK government hostage on whichever issues they please is incredibly advantageous to them).
By making the issue about Theresa May specifically rather than the government in general Corbyn has given the nation a chance to see if the 117 Tory "no confidence" rebels from last week think that what's good enough for them is good enough for the rest of us.
If they switch to voting confidence in Theresa as Prime Minister of the entire country after denouncing her as unfit to run their beloved party just last week it'd be the most brazen display of "party before country" in British political history.
If they maintain their vote of no confidence (which relies on the admittedly unlikely scenario of them not being a pack of brazenly self-serving hypocrites), Theresa May will have demonstrably lost the confidence of parliament as a whole and her woeful Brexit shambles will come tumbling down.
A clear lose-lose scenario for the Tories that even the spinning skills of the right-wing propaganda rags and the BBC Politics team are going to struggle to distort into a Tory triumph.


Thank goodness for web bloggers in the absence of any left-wing or even centrist news organs in the UK.
Tom
 
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tommie

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Mar 13, 2013
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Brendan O`Neill............ at last an Irishman who won`t be a servant of the EU Mafia.

The EU doesn’t care about Ireland. It has twice conspired in the overthrow of democratic Irish votes against EU treaties. It sent the troika to colonise Ireland’s economic affairs in 2010. And just this month it ruled that Irish quangos have the right to ignore Irish laws in favour of EU ones, damaging Irish democracy and creating tensions in Irish public life. For Ireland to suck up to an institution that treats it with such contempt is one of the most ignominious things happening in Europe right now.

Leo Varadkar is being played like a fiddle by Brussels

Brendan O'Neill

A few decades ago, Irish people would march through the streets of London to holler at the British government: ‘Hands off Ireland!’ As an Irishman, I wish Irish people would now take to the streets of Dublin to say to Leo Varadkar’s government: ‘Hands off Britain!’ For Varadkar’s meddling in British politics, his and his minions’ attempts to scupper Britain’s break from the European Union, is profoundly anti-democratic. What we have here is a foreign leader interfering in Britain’s domestic, democratic affairs. It was wrong when the British did that to Ireland, and it is wrong for the Irish now to do the same to Brexit Britain.

The way Varadkar, the Taoiseach, talks about Britain is astonishing. It is motored by the elitist, practically imperial belief that what is good for his government — his foreign government — is more important than what the British people themselves, in their millions, voted for.

In recent days he has, in the words of the BBC, ‘ruled out’ any further British renegotiation of the withdrawal agreement with the EU. Who does he think he is? His foreign affairs minister, Simon Coveney, has suggested Britain should deactivate Article 50. Last year an overwhelming majority of elected members of the British parliament — 498 to 114 — voted to trigger Article 50, which started the process of our leaving the EU, and yet here comes a foreign politician to suggest we backtrack on that democratic act. It would be as outrageous for a British minister to tell the Irish to overturn the result of their abortion referendum from earlier this year.

How can Irish ministers speak so hubristically about Britain’s internal affairs? Because they have been encouraged to do so by cynical operators in Brussels. The border in Ireland has become the key stumbling block to Brexit not because it really is a stumbling block, but because it was manipulated into one by Brussels oligarchs keen to make Brexit as difficult as possible. And keen to send a warning to other EU member states, every single one of which has a land border with another EU member state, as the UK would in relation to Ireland once (if?) Brexit becomes a reality. The warning says: ‘It’s too complicated to leave the EU. It harms our bloc. It screws up trade. Don’t even think about it or you will suffer like the UK is suffering.’

The cynicism of the scaremongering over the Irish border is captured in a Bloomberg report published at the end of last week. Based on interviews with officials in Dublin and London, the article reveals how feverishly the ‘Irish issue’ was latched on to by those who wanted to weaken or demonise Brexit. In the aftermath of the vote for Brexit, one of the key things ‘at play in Brussels’, reports Bloomberg, was the idea that ‘Northern Ireland was a place where the “fantasies” of the Brexit camp clashed with reality’. So ‘for those seeking to illustrate the difficulties inherent in the wider Brexit project, it was the perfect vehicle’.

This is what many of us suspected: that the Northern Ireland border question was consciously turned into a thorny issue by those who really wanted to cast aspersions on Brexit itself and to lecture the British people about the stupidity and impossibility of the thing they voted for. As a result, says Bloomberg, Irish ministers who felt uncomfortable with Brexit found ‘they were pushing at an open door’ when it came to convincing the EU to run with the so-called Irish problem in their tough talk with the Brits. Bloomberg reports that the EU’s chief negotiator Michel Barnier was ‘particularly receptive’. I bet he was. He finally had what he considered to be a trump card against a proper, clean Brexit — the jumped-up idea that if Britain leaves the EU it will will make life hard for the Irish and possibly even reignite the Troubles.

Ireland has been used by the EU to weaken democracy in Britain. This is the worst thing about this entire cynical spectacle — the way in which a once plucky, independence-desiring republic has allowed itself to become a patsy of the Brussels oligarchy. The Irish chattering classes, virtually all of whom are uncritically pro-EU, cheer Varadkar’s manoeuvrings against Britain as proof that Ireland is now a grown-up nation and is even bossing about its former imperial rulers. Please. In truth Ireland has made itself into the willing weapon of a new imperial power: Brussels. Rarely in recent decades has a small nation so shamelessly prostrated itself before a foreign power. Ireland might be irritating its old colonial rulers, but it does so at the behest of its new ones.

And if Ireland thinks fronting the EU’s Brexitphobic strategy will protect it from EU disfavour in the future, it has another thing coming. The EU doesn’t care about Ireland. It has twice conspired in the overthrow of democratic Irish votes against EU treaties. It sent the troika to colonise Ireland’s economic affairs in 2010. And just this month it ruled that Irish quangos have the right to ignore Irish laws in favour of EU ones, damaging Irish democracy and creating tensions in Irish public life. For Ireland to suck up to an institution that treats it with such contempt is one of the most ignominious things happening in Europe right now.
 

Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
5,224
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After Theresa May gave an extraordinarily evasive and unacceptable answer on when she's going to hold the meaningful Brexit vote that she sidelined parliament by postponing last week (because she knew she was going to lose it) Jeremy Corbyn has tabled a parliamentary no confidence vote in her as Prime Minister.
This isn't a confidence vote in the government under the Fixed Term Parliament Act, so it wouldn't necessarily bring down the entire Tory government if it went against her, and the reason he's decided to do it this way is obvious.
If Corbyn tried to use a government no confidence vote to bring down Theresa May and her Tory mates, he'd end up unifying the spectacularly divided Tories and their DUP backers, lose the vote, and humiliate himself in the process.
Tory self-interest would obviously not allow them to actively vote to bring down their own government, and the DUP have very clearly indicated that they would back the government under a no confidence scenario (because their current position of holding the UK government hostage on whichever issues they please is incredibly advantageous to them).
By making the issue about Theresa May specifically rather than the government in general Corbyn has given the nation a chance to see if the 117 Tory "no confidence" rebels from last week think that what's good enough for them is good enough for the rest of us.
If they switch to voting confidence in Theresa as Prime Minister of the entire country after denouncing her as unfit to run their beloved party just last week it'd be the most brazen display of "party before country" in British political history.
If they maintain their vote of no confidence (which relies on the admittedly unlikely scenario of them not being a pack of brazenly self-serving hypocrites), Theresa May will have demonstrably lost the confidence of parliament as a whole and her woeful Brexit shambles will come tumbling down.
A clear lose-lose scenario for the Tories that even the spinning skills of the right-wing propaganda rags and the BBC Politics team are going to struggle to distort into a Tory triumph.


Thank goodness for web bloggers in the absence of any left-wing or even centrist news organs in the UK.
Tom
Vince Cable reckoned Corbyn simply bottled it.
 
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Fingers

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After Theresa May gave an extraordinarily evasive and unacceptable answer on when she's going to hold the meaningful Brexit vote that she sidelined parliament by postponing last week (because she knew she was going to lose it) Jeremy Corbyn has tabled a parliamentary no confidence vote in her as Prime Minister.
This isn't a confidence vote in the government under the Fixed Term Parliament Act, so it wouldn't necessarily bring down the entire Tory government if it went against her, and the reason he's decided to do it this way is obvious.
If Corbyn tried to use a government no confidence vote to bring down Theresa May and her Tory mates, he'd end up unifying the spectacularly divided Tories and their DUP backers, lose the vote, and humiliate himself in the process.
Tory self-interest would obviously not allow them to actively vote to bring down their own government, and the DUP have very clearly indicated that they would back the government under a no confidence scenario (because their current position of holding the UK government hostage on whichever issues they please is incredibly advantageous to them).
By making the issue about Theresa May specifically rather than the government in general Corbyn has given the nation a chance to see if the 117 Tory "no confidence" rebels from last week think that what's good enough for them is good enough for the rest of us.
If they switch to voting confidence in Theresa as Prime Minister of the entire country after denouncing her as unfit to run their beloved party just last week it'd be the most brazen display of "party before country" in British political history.
If they maintain their vote of no confidence (which relies on the admittedly unlikely scenario of them not being a pack of brazenly self-serving hypocrites), Theresa May will have demonstrably lost the confidence of parliament as a whole and her woeful Brexit shambles will come tumbling down.
A clear lose-lose scenario for the Tories that even the spinning skills of the right-wing propaganda rags and the BBC Politics team are going to struggle to distort into a Tory triumph.


Thank goodness for web bloggers in the absence of any left-wing or even centrist news organs in the UK.
Tom

What utter nonsense.

This motion has got more chance of being voted on than a motion passed by you after eating 50 boiled eggs.

He has just made himself look weak, ineffectual and unable to make a decision.

Had he done his job properly, as every other political party implored him to do would have created a real opportunity to make Mays position further untenable. Now this nonsense means May looks forward to a peaceful Xmas.

And as for Tory unity that has gone forever. Morgan and Mogg are almost literally in different parties. That awful Soubry woman and David Davis the same. The whole party is divided. And as for the DUP sticking by them, either up your meds of halve them because you are not paying attention.
 
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Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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Ireland
Brendan O`Neill............ at last an Irishman who won`t be a servant of the EU Mafia.

The EU doesn’t care about Ireland. It has twice conspired in the overthrow of democratic Irish votes against EU treaties. It sent the troika to colonise Ireland’s economic affairs in 2010. And just this month it ruled that Irish quangos have the right to ignore Irish laws in favour of EU ones, damaging Irish democracy and creating tensions in Irish public life. For Ireland to suck up to an institution that treats it with such contempt is one of the most ignominious things happening in Europe right now.

Leo Varadkar is being played like a fiddle by Brussels

Brendan O'Neill

A few decades ago, Irish people would march through the streets of London to holler at the British government: ‘Hands off Ireland!’ As an Irishman, I wish Irish people would now take to the streets of Dublin to say to Leo Varadkar’s government: ‘Hands off Britain!’ For Varadkar’s meddling in British politics, his and his minions’ attempts to scupper Britain’s break from the European Union, is profoundly anti-democratic. What we have here is a foreign leader interfering in Britain’s domestic, democratic affairs. It was wrong when the British did that to Ireland, and it is wrong for the Irish now to do the same to Brexit Britain.

The way Varadkar, the Taoiseach, talks about Britain is astonishing. It is motored by the elitist, practically imperial belief that what is good for his government — his foreign government — is more important than what the British people themselves, in their millions, voted for.

In recent days he has, in the words of the BBC, ‘ruled out’ any further British renegotiation of the withdrawal agreement with the EU. Who does he think he is? His foreign affairs minister, Simon Coveney, has suggested Britain should deactivate Article 50. Last year an overwhelming majority of elected members of the British parliament — 498 to 114 — voted to trigger Article 50, which started the process of our leaving the EU, and yet here comes a foreign politician to suggest we backtrack on that democratic act. It would be as outrageous for a British minister to tell the Irish to overturn the result of their abortion referendum from earlier this year.

How can Irish ministers speak so hubristically about Britain’s internal affairs? Because they have been encouraged to do so by cynical operators in Brussels. The border in Ireland has become the key stumbling block to Brexit not because it really is a stumbling block, but because it was manipulated into one by Brussels oligarchs keen to make Brexit as difficult as possible. And keen to send a warning to other EU member states, every single one of which has a land border with another EU member state, as the UK would in relation to Ireland once (if?) Brexit becomes a reality. The warning says: ‘It’s too complicated to leave the EU. It harms our bloc. It screws up trade. Don’t even think about it or you will suffer like the UK is suffering.’

The cynicism of the scaremongering over the Irish border is captured in a Bloomberg report published at the end of last week. Based on interviews with officials in Dublin and London, the article reveals how feverishly the ‘Irish issue’ was latched on to by those who wanted to weaken or demonise Brexit. In the aftermath of the vote for Brexit, one of the key things ‘at play in Brussels’, reports Bloomberg, was the idea that ‘Northern Ireland was a place where the “fantasies” of the Brexit camp clashed with reality’. So ‘for those seeking to illustrate the difficulties inherent in the wider Brexit project, it was the perfect vehicle’.

This is what many of us suspected: that the Northern Ireland border question was consciously turned into a thorny issue by those who really wanted to cast aspersions on Brexit itself and to lecture the British people about the stupidity and impossibility of the thing they voted for. As a result, says Bloomberg, Irish ministers who felt uncomfortable with Brexit found ‘they were pushing at an open door’ when it came to convincing the EU to run with the so-called Irish problem in their tough talk with the Brits. Bloomberg reports that the EU’s chief negotiator Michel Barnier was ‘particularly receptive’. I bet he was. He finally had what he considered to be a trump card against a proper, clean Brexit — the jumped-up idea that if Britain leaves the EU it will will make life hard for the Irish and possibly even reignite the Troubles.

Ireland has been used by the EU to weaken democracy in Britain. This is the worst thing about this entire cynical spectacle — the way in which a once plucky, independence-desiring republic has allowed itself to become a patsy of the Brussels oligarchy. The Irish chattering classes, virtually all of whom are uncritically pro-EU, cheer Varadkar’s manoeuvrings against Britain as proof that Ireland is now a grown-up nation and is even bossing about its former imperial rulers. Please. In truth Ireland has made itself into the willing weapon of a new imperial power: Brussels. Rarely in recent decades has a small nation so shamelessly prostrated itself before a foreign power. Ireland might be irritating its old colonial rulers, but it does so at the behest of its new ones.

And if Ireland thinks fronting the EU’s Brexitphobic strategy will protect it from EU disfavour in the future, it has another thing coming. The EU doesn’t care about Ireland. It has twice conspired in the overthrow of democratic Irish votes against EU treaties. It sent the troika to colonise Ireland’s economic affairs in 2010. And just this month it ruled that Irish quangos have the right to ignore Irish laws in favour of EU ones, damaging Irish democracy and creating tensions in Irish public life. For Ireland to suck up to an institution that treats it with such contempt is one of the most ignominious things happening in Europe right now.
Oh dear would one not read a full nuanced report rather than reading selected subsections of another report, generating conclusions which were not in the more balanced Bloomberg report, this individual revisits old tripe, unfit for human consumption. .
 
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tommie

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Mar 13, 2013
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